Gap Year Strategy? Peace Corps?

[gohogwild]

Peace Corps is all the rage on the MD forums, but what do The Psychologists say? Does it benefit? Anyone done it? (calimich has said something about their experience before 😃). I hear more about the benefits of having a productive research year after undergrad, but I am attending college in the same state I grew up in and am therefore travel hungry.

I would be fine the Peace Corps- then a research year, then grad school if that would make up for it? My research experience is fairly average at the moment but may improve in my last coming year of undergrad.

Also, is it OK to ask for multiple LORs from one person for different things (Asking for one for peace corps (or whatever I do)... Then grad school)? Are there other strategies for LORs? Like it not being wise to "use up" the LOR from the head honcho yet, I assume, etc?

Thank you all for being a resource!

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[WisNeuro]

Will it help with grad admissions? No, not much. If you want it for personal growth, it could be worth it, but it won't move the needle in much of a meaningful way for a CV for grad school, especially compared to more research experience.

Asking for multiple LORs is fine, I get asked for LORs from former supervisees for a variety of things. It's ok as long as it makes sense.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Peace Corps is all the rage on the MD forums, but what do The Psychologists say? Does it benefit? Anyone done it? (calimich has said something about their experience before 😃). I hear more about the benefits of having a productive research year after undergrad, but I am attending college in the same state I grew up in and am therefore travel hungry.

I would be fine with a year (usually 1.5yrs) in the Peace Corps- then a research year, then grad school if that would make up for it? My research experience is fairly average at the moment but may improve in my last coming year of undergrad.

Also, is it OK to ask for multiple LORs from one person for different things (Asking for one for peace corps (or whatever I do)... Then grad school)? Are there other strategies for LORs? Like it not being wise to "use up" the LOR from the head honcho yet, I assume, etc?

Thank you all for being a resource!

I think the Peace Corps is something to do if you really want to do it for the sake of doing it, not for any potential hypothetical admissions boost (which, tbh, I don't think it would be, except for maybe as a cool talking point during interviews). FWIW, a few people I know who did Peace Corps said the transition back after their service was incredibly rough, and I imagine the program might be a bit influx right now with the pandemic. Americorps is another option for service (domestic), which could get you into new locales. I served a part-time Americorps term for two years in undergrad, and it ended up giving me some really great teaching experience that was directly related to psych.

As for LORs, totally okay to ask the same person for multiple ones, but keep in mind different types of positions may want different types of references. Also, make sure to ask if they can write you a "very strong" or "excellent" reference.

 

[gohogwild]

Will it help with grad admissions? No, not much. If you want it for personal growth, it could be worth it, but it won't move the needle in much of a meaningful way for a CV for grad school, especially compared to more research experience.

Asking for multiple LORs is fine, I get asked for LORs from former supervisees for a variety of things. It's ok as long as it makes sense.

Fair enough. Thank you for always being on the pulse, WisNeuro. Without it being mentioned on here before, it makes sense that's the reality.

 

[WisNeuro]

Fair enough. Thank you for always being on the pulse, WisNeuro. Without it being mentioned on here before, it makes sense that's the reality.

No worries, though I'm becoming further removed from grad school admissions experience. Definitely look at what people like @futureapppsy2 and @MCParent have to say on the matter as I believe that they are seeing grad school apps on a yearly basis.

 

[gohogwild]

I think the Peace Corps is something to do if you really want to do it for the sake of doing it, not for any potential hypothetical admissions boost (which, tbh, I don't think it would be, except for maybe as a cool talking point during interviews). FWIW, a few people I know who did Peace Corps said the transition back after their service was incredibly rough, and I imagine the program might be a bit influx right now with the pandemic. Americorps is another option for service (domestic), which could get you into new locales. I served a part-time Americorps term for two years in undergrad, and it ended up giving me some really great teaching experience that was directly related to psych.

As for LORs, totally okay to ask the same person for multiple ones, but keep in mind different types of positions may want different types of references. Also, make sure to ask if they can write you a "very strong" or "excellent" reference.

That makes sense, thank you for your input. I am weary of not being able to get back into the swing of things after a gap year. I will look into Americorps, though if I stay domestic, I will likely try to plan for a research position in a different city.

I've heard the advice of including "very strong" or "excellent" when asking for a LOR, feels quite awkward to me, but it seems it must be done Thank you!

 

[summerbabe]

I think Peace Corps may boost MD applications since they are required to document extracurriculars like altruism because otherwise you’d distill even more apps down to smart + likes science + wants to make lots of money/have social prestige.

 

[gohogwild]

I think Peace Corps may boost MD applications since they are required to document extracurriculars like altruism because otherwise you’d distill even more apps down to smart + likes science + wants to make lots of money/have social prestige.

Ah! Thank you for putting it that way. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[cara susanna]

In terms of apps, you'd be better off spending that time doing a full time research gig IMO.

 

[jdawg2017]

Just FWIW - it may be worth considering a research role for multiple years. For many full-time gigs, there is an assumption you will be around for at least 2 years (even if not explicitly stated in hiring docs). Of course, you are not contractually obligated to this unless you do sign a multiple year contract. However, leaving a lab after 1 year may not be wise because at the 1-year mark you are likely finally hitting your stride with whatever your research duties are and can then have more capacity to contribute to posters and/or publications. Having scholarly products to show for your research job will make you even more competitive for graduate school.

 

[Dazen]

That makes sense, thank you for your input. I am weary of not being able to get back into the swing of things after a gap year. I will look into Americorps, though if I stay domestic, I will likely try to plan for a research position in a different city.

I've heard the advice of including "very strong" or "excellent" when asking for a LOR, feels quite awkward to me, but it seems it must be done Thank you!

Even though it sounds awkward, it's much more comfortable for both you and the letter writer to ask up front if they are able to write you a strong letter. It takes the uncertainty out of some of the application process for you (because you'll know whether the letters will help or hurt your app) and, if they can't write a strong letter, provides you with helpful feedback to improve in that specific lab, as a researcher in general, or in understanding the prerequisites for a strong LOR (i.e. working with a professor beyond being in their class). I'm very pro-feedback, so YMMV with this. Professors also usually don't want to write bad LORs, so they generally welcome the conversation. Good luck!

 

[MCParent]

No worries, though I'm becoming further removed from grad school admissions experience. Definitely look at what people like @futureapppsy2 and @MCParent have to say on the matter as I believe that they are seeing grad school apps on a yearly basis.

I’d agree with you. Can be nice to have to show work ethic and such but only in addition to a lot of research experience.

 

[Action_Potential]

Chiming in to say Peace Corps/Americorps service may not impact program applications but we have ranked internship/post-doc applicants higher for interview and/or placement having had these form of Public Health Service style experiences.

 

[R. Matey]

I think Peace Corps may boost MD applications since they are required to document extracurriculars like altruism

I love that altruism is a box to check in medicine.

 

[WisNeuro]

I love that altruism is a box to check in medicine.

Especially mandated altruism.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Chiming in to say Peace Corps/Americorps service may not impact program applications but we have ranked internship/post-doc applicants higher for interview and/or placement having had these form of Public Health Service style experiences.

That's interesting to hear and makes some sense in that does seem like it would at least speak to the person's ability to be flexible and adapt to major changes / the unexpected and being open to new experiences even if they are not in super "nice" locals or living conditions (if you're living off that stipend, anyway). Someone who can adapt and make it through such a program is probably likely to adapt easily to moving to a new location with new people, work, etc.

 

[calimich]

Peace Corps is all the rage on the MD forums, but what do The Psychologists say? Does it benefit?

I'm not sure there is much empirical data on this question. Anyone got any? Any application-reviewing faculty willing to share personal experiences in reviewing such applicants?

FWIW, a few people I know who did Peace Corps said the transition back after their service was incredibly rough,

This actually is found in the literature: "reverse" culture shock is real and often experienced as more difficult than "regular" culture shock.

Anyone done it? (calimich has said something about their experience before 😃).

Yes! and it seems mostly counter to the other anecdotes, I think peace corps service made a major difference in grad admissions and has continued to pay dividends. Professionally, it has come up in all my subsequent interviews and personally it's an enduring source of strength.

In terms of apps, you'd be better off spending that time doing a full time research gig IMO.

This might be true, however I think in terms of overall life, you'd be better off spending that time serving abroad.

Chiming in to say Peace Corps/Americorps service may not impact program applications but we have ranked internship/post-doc applicants higher for interview and/or placement having had these form of Public Health Service style experiences.

That's interesting to hear and makes some sense in that does seem like it would at least speak to the person's ability to be flexible and adapt to major changes / the unexpected and being open to new experiences even if they are not in super "nice" locals or living conditions (if you're living off that stipend, anyway). Someone who can adapt and make it through such a program is probably likely to adapt easily to moving to a new location with new people, work, etc.

I think this gets at my experience as a returned volunteer. It certainly was a challenging 2+ years, so cognitive dissonance and rationalization acknowledged, I found it to be an incredibly rewarding experience which has helped me stand out over and over. You can find peace corps service in the bio of many accomplished folks in a variety of fields. I've also heard many times from folks comments like, "I wish I would have done that back then..."

The application process is lengthy and there are many steps before actually getting on a plane. I could go on and on...I loved my experience, and the 8 months post-service I spent travelling. I encourage my students who express peace corps (or americorps) interest to follow it, fill out the application. See what happens...

Serve Boldly With the Peace Corps

www.peacecorps.gov

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

A research position (preferable 1.5-2yr) would be best....in an ideal world it'd offer a chance to do your own poster and/or contribute to manuscripts.

That said, assuming you have sufficient research exp....I'd suggest taking the year to travel, grow, and come in fresh bc you'll get busy quickly. I went right from a corp job to moving & starting grad school in <10 days. Spend time with family and enjoy yourself if you can make the finances work.

 

[gohogwild]

I'm not sure there is much empirical data on this question. Anyone got any? Any application-reviewing faculty willing to share personal experiences in reviewing such applicants?

This actually is found in the literature: "reverse" culture shock is real and often experienced as more difficult than "regular" culture shock.

Yes! and it seems mostly counter to the other anecdotes, I think peace corps service made a major difference in grad admissions and has continued to pay dividends. Professionally, it has come up in all my subsequent interviews and personally it's an enduring source of strength.

This might be true, however I think in terms of overall life, you'd be better off spending that time serving abroad.



I think this gets at my experience as a returned volunteer. It certainly was a challenging 2+ years, so cognitive dissonance and rationalization acknowledged, I found it to be an incredibly rewarding experience which has helped me stand out over and over. You can find peace corps service in the bio of many accomplished folks in a variety of fields. I've also heard many times from folks comments like, "I wish I would have done that back then..."

The application process is lengthy and there are many steps before actually getting on a plane. I could go on and on...I loved my experience, and the 8 months post-service I spent travelling. I encourage my students who express peace corps (or americorps) interest to follow it, fill out the application. See what happens...

Serve Boldly With the Peace Corps

www.peacecorps.gov

Don't feed the beast, everyone else is counter to you! But you, you speak to my heart.. I may fill it out, in free time of course- just for funzies. Thanks!

 

[Dazen]

I can't speak specifically to Peace Corps, but I've had a bunch of 3+ month experiences living/volunteering abroad, a few in non-Western countries, where I didn't know anyone before stepping off the plane, and I absolutely support taking time to travel and broaden your worldview. I echo everything @calimich said about gaining maturity and a source of strength to draw from, and have also found that my experiences were well received in applications generally because they helped set me apart from applicants with more standard experiences and are genuinely interesting to people. I have also lived my life choosing the option in front of me that seemed best holistically, instead of jumping through hoops to get to an end-goal I wasn't 100% sure would be worth it, and found someone who valued this to hire/accept me, because I know I wouldn't have been happy otherwise. It might take more reflection and searching during applications, or more preparation after you finish, but if you can't imagine yourself not having those experiences, then go your own way and trust that you can either find a side door in later or find a path that's even better for you.

 

[gohogwild]

I can't speak specifically to Peace Corps, but I've had a bunch of 3+ month experiences living/volunteering abroad, a few in non-Western countries, where I didn't know anyone before stepping off the plane, and I absolutely support taking time to travel and broaden your worldview. I echo everything @calimich said about gaining maturity and a source of strength to draw from, and have also found that my experiences were well received in applications generally because they helped set me apart from applicants with more standard experiences and are genuinely interesting to people. I have also lived my life choosing the option in front of me that seemed best holistically, instead of jumping through hoops to get to an end-goal I wasn't 100% sure would be worth it, and found someone who valued this to hire/accept me, because I know I wouldn't have been happy otherwise. It might take more reflection and searching during applications, or more preparation after you finish, but if you can't imagine yourself not having those experiences, then go your own way and trust that you can either find a side door in later or find a path that's even better for you.

Thank you for this! My college (small liberal arts) allows students to go for co-op quarters, I've spend time supporting intellectually disabled adults in upstate NY and time as a sexual health intern along the US/Mexico border. Both of these experiences were transformative and I can only imagine what going out of the US would be like. Peace corps sounds like it's right up my alley, and I am the same in that I do not tend to do things as a means to an end. There is a chance I would not get in, so I may apply as a roll of the dice, biased as I am. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated!

 

[summerbabe]

Peace corps sounds like it's right up my alley, and I am the same in that I do not tend to do things as a means to an end. There is a chance I would not get in, so I may apply as a roll of the dice, biased as I am.

The main things that might hold one back from having life experiences prior to ‘dedicating’ oneself to a career are financial constraints and self-imposed timelines/ideas of what one should be doing.

Grad school will always be there as an option, whether you’re 23, 33, 43, or older (if your CV stacks up). Or maybe those life experiences push you away from grad school/psychology and towards where you actually need to be. Who knows?

Also, not sure if you’ve looked at the logistics of applying to the Peace Corps but it’s a long ass process! I applied my senior year but ended up withdrawing for something that fit me better in that moment and have no regrets. Good luck!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Also, not sure if you’ve looked at the logistics of applying to the Peace Corps but it’s a long ass process! I applied my senior year but ended up withdrawing for something that fit me better in that moment and have no regrets. Good luck!

I also went through the PC process and was accepted before withdrawing for family reasons but yea it's a lot longer process than domestic - and I'd wonder how COVID unknowns might impact things (and funding). There are some AmeriCorps positions that are part-time or 6 months (most are a year) so that's another thing to consider.

Another gap year-esque approach with a more flexible timeline and a very consolidated glimpse into lives very different than your own experiences - refugee resettlement. There are many around the country. I visited one in Georgia over a decade ago- farming, teaching English, schooling kids, and basics of how to grocery shop, operate new / very different technology, drive, etc. Folks who passed the vetting process lived there and volunteered to help with all aspects. generally refugees would arrive there and stay for a few to several months before transitioning to nearby community with periodic follow-up and people could volunteer for as long or as short as able provided they passed background checks and could make themselves useful.

 

[gohogwild]

I also went through the PC process and was accepted before withdrawing for family reasons but yea it's a lot longer process than domestic - and I'd wonder how COVID unknowns might impact things (and funding). There are some AmeriCorps positions that are part-time or 6 months (most are a year) so that's another thing to consider.

Another gap year-esque approach with a more flexible timeline and a very consolidated glimpse into lives very different than your own experiences - refugee resettlement. There are many around the country. I visited one in Georgia over a decade ago- farming, teaching English, schooling kids, and basics of how to grocery shop, operate new / very different technology, drive, etc. Folks who passed the vetting process lived there and volunteered to help with all aspects. generally refugees would arrive there and stay for a few to several months before transitioning to nearby community with periodic follow-up and people could volunteer for as long or as short as able provided they passed background checks and could make themselves useful.

Wow, thank you! I never would have thought about refugee resettlement! There's actually a very good movie set in one called Limbo (2020, fictional).

 

[calimich]

you're doing it! Huge congratulations on following through with the application and clearance process despite naysayers and doubts. Have a blast at staging, enjoy training, and remember goals #2 and #3 throughout service. Enjoy the warm oceans, it's going to be amazing!!

 

[PikminOC]

you're doing it! Huge congratulations on following through with the application and clearance process despite naysayers and doubts. Have a blast at staging, enjoy training, and remember goals #2 and #3 throughout service. Enjoy the warm oceans, it's going to be amazing!!

It's been two years. Is op done with this by now?

 

[gohogwild]

you're doing it! Huge congratulations on following through with the application and clearance process despite naysayers and doubts. Have a blast at staging, enjoy training, and remember goals #2 and #3 throughout service. Enjoy the warm oceans, it's going to be amazing!!

Thank you so much for all your enthusiastic support! I just arrived at staging like.. 15 minutes ago. I am so excited! There's a good chance I wouldn't have done it without your example... Goal #3 indeed! Thank you thank you.

 

[gohogwild]

It's been two years. Is op done with this by now?

Nope, the application process was nine months. Got some interesting clinical experience in the mean time though!