Gap year to potentially get in MD school or take DO acceptance

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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Not sure how people are going to take this... Say hypothetically, you were rejected from one of your top MD schools and accepted to a DO school that suits you adequately. Is the risk of waiting until the next cycle and improving your app to apply again worth it? Or would you take the DO acceptance? Thanks
 
Why apply to a school you wouldn't go to in the first place?

Plus how much can you really change your application in the ~ 6 months before you have to submit for the next year? Most likely it'll be 2 gap years.

PS not hypothetical for me. DO acceptances, MD waitlists, took a DO acceptance. Am I happy? Yes. Do I still think what if? Sometimes but I think it's perfectly normal.
 
Also keep in mind that if you decline that DO acceptance, you will no longer have any DO schools to fall back on... suppose some extenuating circumstance were to happen in the next few months that hindered your MD chances... or suppose you went another cycle without any acceptances, would you still be happy with your decision? Lastly, why did you even apply to DO schools in the first place? It sounds as if you were entirely gunning for allopathic
 
Ultravox Vienna said:
Not sure how people are going to take this... Say hypothetically, you were rejected from one of your top MD schools and accepted to a DO school that suits you adequately. Is the risk of waiting until the next cycle and improving your app to apply again worth it? Or would you take the DO acceptance? Thanks
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Do you want to be a doctor or not?
 
Goro said:
Do you want to be a doctor or not?
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Nothing wrong with wanting to get the best education you can get. DO schools have issues with stigma, medicore clinicals, numerous students failing out. OP, go for the MD acceptance
 
premed74 said:
Nothing wrong with wanting to get the best education you can get. DO schools have issues with stigma, medicore clinicals, numerous students failing out. OP, go for the MD acceptance
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If this is the way one feels, then they should not apply DO to begin with imo. Sort of slippery slope if best education is your metric for things.
 
Xyzcannon18 said:
If this is the way one feels, then they should not apply DO to begin with imo. Sort of slippery slope if best education is your metric for things.
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Many students don't realize these dangers untill it is to late. Plus, many people evolve their opinions as the cycle progresses
 
Why did you apply somewhere you wouldn't want to go if accepted? Did you think this through...? I think not...
 
premed74 said:
Nothing wrong with wanting to get the best education you can get. DO schools have issues with stigma, medicore clinicals, numerous students failing out. OP, go for the MD acceptance
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1) The graduation rate from DO schools is on par with the graduation rate from MD schools. Numerous students are not “failing out”.
2) Stigma has no effect on education. Just because there’s a stigma, that doesn’t mean you can’t “get the best education you can get”. I’m not sure why this is a part of your argument if your concern is getting an excellent education.
3) There are many DO schools that have excellent clinicals that surpass even low/mid tier MD schools.

Not every DO school is TouroNY. Don’t pretend that they are.
 
Thanks for everybody's responses. Just to be clear ... 1. This is an actual hypothetical situation (only a rising sophomore in undergrad) 2. I will become a doctor 3. Yes, adequate is, by all means, sufficient for success 4. I do not believe MD schools have a "better" education... it's more like MD and DO have different content in regard to OMM -- Specifically, say you had one or two specialities already in mind that you were determined to pursue; however, said specialty is highly competitive. From what I've researched, attending a DO school decreases match rate for the highly competitive residencies but it is by all means not impossible. Take the risk now or take the risk later?
PS: try not to flame me for being a small fry undergrad 🙁
 
Ultravox Vienna said:
Thanks for everybody's responses. Just to be clear ... 1. This is an actual hypothetical situation (only a rising sophomore in undergrad) 2. I will become a doctor 3. Yes, adequate is, by all means, sufficient for success 4. I do not believe MD schools have a "better" education... it's more like MD and DO have different content in regard to OMM -- Specifically, say you had one or two specialities already in mind that you were determined to pursue; however, said specialty is highly competitive. From what I've researched, attending a DO school decreases match rate for the highly competitive residencies but it is by all means not impossible. Take the risk now or take the risk later?
PS: try not to flame me for being a small fry undergrad 🙁
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You're spot on. Shoot for an MD school if you want something competitive. These days, DO will take you -> Primary Care
 
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gonnif said:
For future readers:

This is why I am not of a fan of moderate applicants applying to both MD and DO on first cycle. There are always some who get into DO but think that maybe, just maybe next cycle they will get into MD. This is similar to the way those top top students who apply to a broad array of schools, get a mid tier MD acceptance but think maybe they can try again next cycle for Harvard, Standford, Princeton, etc.

Apply to the schools you want to go to in your first cycle. If you want MD then only apply MD. If you want a top 20, then only apply top 20. It is amazing how perspectives may change when you go thru a cycle with no acceptance and now have to reapply.

Maybe I should add a retainer to my advising agreements for $5000 for turning down an acceptance.
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I think Princeton med might be infinitely difficult to get into for even the top top students. 😉😛😀:laugh:
 
Pasmal said:
That might be the common sentiment in MD circles but it's actually pretty far from reality.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Charting-Outcomes-US-Osteopathic-2016.pdf
https://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Match-Information-for-website-Specialty.pdf
https://rfums-bigtree.s3.amazonaws.com/files/resources/cms-match-list-2018.pdf
Medscape: Medscape Access
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I don't think we can overlook the outcome differences between MD and DO. The education may be almost exactly the same but we can't pretend they don't face additional hurdles to matching-according to charting the match (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf page 15) 81% vs 94% of DOs vs MDs matched this past year. Even the highest percent matched specialty for DOs, DR, is below the MD average match rate (your first link, page 5). The most competitive specialty the DO chart lists, gen surg, matches at rates less than 20% that of their MD counterparts.
This is, of course, making the massive assumption that all DO schools are the same (a fact I know to be incorrect). I could believe there are a few less rigorous programs ruining it for the general whole. Honestly, my internal explanation for the differences are the 70 year old department heads who scoff at the possibility of accepting someone other than an MD. I have worked with DO residents who seemed prettyyyy similar to my MD classmates (not to mention international students who are much the same). But the numbers are still the numbers.
For the record, though, I would still take the DO acceptance assuming the "adequate fit" included a solid match list/rate.
 
OneTwoThreeFour said:
I don't think we can overlook the outcome differences between MD and DO. The education may be almost exactly the same but we can't pretend they don't face additional hurdles to matching-according to charting the match (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Main-Match-Result-and-Data-2018.pdf page 15) 81% vs 94% of DOs vs MDs matched this past year. Even the highest percent matched specialty for DOs, DR, is below the MD average match rate (your first link, page 5). The most competitive specialty the DO chart lists, gen surg, matches at rates less than 20% that of their MD counterparts.
This is, of course, making the massive assumption that all DO schools are the same (a fact I know to be incorrect). I could believe there are a few less rigorous programs ruining it for the general whole. Honestly, my internal explanation for the differences are the 70 year old department heads who scoff at the possibility of accepting someone other than an MD. I have worked with DO residents who seemed prettyyyy similar to my MD classmates (not to mention international students who are much the same). But the numbers are still the numbers.
For the record, though, I would still take the DO acceptance assuming the "adequate fit" included a solid match list/rate.
Click to expand...

We agree that one subjects themselves to more of an uphill battle as a DO, that's no debate. A big part of the reason for that in my opinion (other than whatever stigma remains) is that the lack of dedicated paid faculty at some schools for clinical years makes it difficult to foster meaningful relationships and LORs with well-connected or highly-regarded faculty.

Keep in mind the data I linked to does not account for the AOA match, only the NRMP. 118 DOs matched GS through AOA spots, and this group likely includes many of the more competitive candidates in the pool (or they wouldn't have matched and would have been forced to try NRMP). We will likely have a more accurate picture of DO competitiveness in various specialties in the 2020 charting the outcomes (post-merger). Regardless, my point was that "not wanting to do primary care" should not be a reason to categorically dismiss applying to DO schools (though perhaps certain ones, as you had suggested).
 
Isoval said:
1) The graduation rate from DO schools is on par with the graduation rate from MD schools. Numerous students are not “failing out”.
2) Stigma has no effect on education. Just because there’s a stigma, that doesn’t mean you can’t “get the best education you can get”. I’m not sure why this is a part of your argument if your concern is getting an excellent education.
3) There are many DO schools that have excellent clinicals that surpass even low/mid tier MD schools.

Not every DO school is TouroNY. Don’t pretend that they are.
Click to expand...

In that case every MD school is California North State. Lmao
 
Pasmal said:
Keep in mind the data I linked to does not account for the AOA match, only the NRMP. 118 DOs matched GS through AOA spots, and this group likely includes many of the more competitive candidates in the pool (or they wouldn't have matched and would have been forced to try NRMP). We will likely have a more accurate picture of DO competitiveness in various specialties in the 2020 charting the outcomes (post-merger). Regardless, my point was that "not wanting to do primary care" should not be a reason to categorically dismiss applying to DO schools (though perhaps certain ones, as you had suggested).
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There's also probably some reverse bias by the new ACGME/former AOA programs too, I know at my hospital all the residencies are now dual accredited and there were NRMP spots but all of the incoming interns are DOs. I know some of the PDs aren't exactly thrilled about accepting MDs after having struggled against the bias throughout their careers. And I heard the 2018 outcome took a bunch of schools by surprise.

Interesting times we live in...
 
These threads are are monotonous, they always go:

1. OP applied to both DO and MD and decided DO isn't what they want, even though they went through all the trouble to fill out a lengthy AACOMAS application.

2. Goro comes in and says "Do you want to be a doctor, if not, give the acceptances to someone who wants to be one

3. I then nod my head in approval to what Goro said

4. I read other ADCOMs, students, and what have you, say you should just take the acceptance

5. Since OP's situation was hypothetical in this thread, I wonder why he didn't use the SDN search function to the the "actual" times this is happened, which is about 1,000,000 times.
 
getdown said:
How do you feel about losing a whole year of attending salary to pursue something silly like this?
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It is a legit question. People have to decide if being inferior is worth it
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Why do people always divide the world into FM and Derm? There are many specialties outside of PC that are matched in droves by very average DO students every year.
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Over 50% of DOs match into primary care
 
premed74 said:
Tell me how DOs match into Derm
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Dude what? We aren't talking about derm. The world isn't broken up into PC and Derm. You keep making random strawman arguments for no reason.

and for the record they do so by getting good research, scoring 240+ on Step, getting great letters, and doing exceptional on aways. Source: our MD derm match from last year.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Dude what? We aren't talking about derm. The world isn't broken up into PC and Derm. You keep making random strawman arguments for no reason.

and for the record they do so by getting good research, scoring 240+ on Step, getting great letters, and doing exceptional on aways. Source: our MD derm match from last year.
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Ahh you're right. Realized how salty I was being
 
Robin-jay said:
These threads are are monotonous, they always go:
1. OP applied to both DO and MD and decided DO isn't what they want, even though they went through all the trouble to fill out a lengthy AACOMAS application.
2. Goro comes in and says "Do you want to be a doctor, if not, give the acceptances to someone who wants to be one
3. I then nod my head in approval to what Goro said
4. I read other ADCOMs, students, and what have you, say you should just take the acceptance
5. Since OP's situation was hypothetical in this thread, I wonder why he didn't use the SDN search function to the the "actual" times this is happened, which is about 1,000,000 times.
Click to expand...


You forgot:
6) Self-hating DO students and ignorant pre-meds come in a with a chorus of "ALWAYS go MD!!!!"
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Why do people always divide the world into FM and Derm? There are many specialties outside of PC that are matched in droves by very average DO students every year.
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~40-55% of my students go into PC. This varies from year to year, but as you can see from the lower number, there are years where we have more going non-PC. Overall, I'd estimate that some 40+ % of DOs go into non-PC fields. Even at the oldest DO schools, at least a third go non-PC. So is it likely that you as a DO will going into PC? Yes. Are you ordained to do so? No. And it's only pre-meds who think that PC is the 7th Circle of Hell.

premed74 said:
Ahh you're right. Realized how salty I was being
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When you're on probation, being salty is not a good idea.
 
premed74 said:
Tell me how DOs match into Derm
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I've thought about going DO because i actually want to go into IM and then perhaps do a CCM-fellowship. Would i then be included in the stats of those that "had to go to PC"? I don't think that'd be very accurate. As cj_cregg mentions - not all of us want some competitive specialty
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
and the most common matched MD specialties are FM, IM, and Peds....

Just because 50% of DOs match PC, that doesn't mean that 50% didn't have other options. Assuming that is a false cause logical fallacy.
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NTM those who do an internal med residency can and do fellowship specialize into about a dozen IM specialties.

There's this website called " DO doctors tha tDO" where you can search DO attendings, so you can account for the residency-match-doesn't-take-into-account-fellowship-training. The website is a little cheesy, but it gives you answers.
 
mwsapphire said:
NTM those who do an internal med residency ( or peds) can and do fellowship specialize into about a dozen IM specialties.

There's this website called " DO doctors tha tDO" where you can search DO attendings, so you can account for the residency-match-doesn't-take-into-account-fellowship-training. The website is a little cheesy, but it gives you answers.
Click to expand...
 
( sorry about the double post, I'm on mobile w/ spotty reception)
 
Goro said:
Do you want to be a doctor or not?
Click to expand...

getdown said:
How do you feel about losing a whole year of attending salary to pursue something silly like this?
Click to expand...

These 2 are the only relevant things to even consider. DOs make the same salary and receive the same if not a better education than MDs.
It’s true it’s harder to get the more competitive specialties but it’s very doable.

I find it amazing when people listen to pre meds that don’t know ****. They’re either trolling, clueless, or justifying their decisions by telling you to follow their mistakes.
 
lenspx said:
Haha finally!!! Been seeing his crazy comments everywhere there's a DO vs MD conversation.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile
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I’m not applying to medical school until next year but I was searching through some of the threads this past cycle and saw him in the Nova Southern thread saying how he was rejected from the waitlist. Lmao here he is talking trash about DO schools and I don’t think he is going to med school. Not wishing bad on him but the irony is a little funny.
 
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