Gen surg chances

[alkylate]

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Hey everyone!
About to start residency applications and wanted to get a feel for my chances of matching in general surgery
-Top 5 medical school
-Clinical grades: All high passes with a pass in peds
-Step 1: 255
-Research: 2 publications (1 in chemistry from undergrad, one in surgery) and 2 posters (1 of which is 1st author)
-Volunteered at a free clinic, had a few leadership roles
-My concern: had to take a medical leave of absence. I took step 1 AFTER I returned from my leave of absence so I hope that would allow me to redeem myself and prove that I am a strong candidate now that I've gotten passed my leave. Of note I've also volunteered abroad in a developing country as well as in my hometown during my leave of absence. I'm really wondering what you guys think about this in particular

I'm trying to match into an academic surgical program. Do you guys think I have a chance to match at a top 10-15 program with my stats? What would you guys recommend I do to increase my competitiveness by the time I apply?

 

[ACSurgeon]

Hey everyone!
About to start residency applications and wanted to get a feel for my chances of matching in general surgery
-Top 5 medical school
-Clinical grades: All high passes with a pass in peds
-Step 1: 255
-Research: 2 publications (1 in chemistry from undergrad, one in surgery) and 2 posters (1 of which is 1st author)
-Volunteered at a free clinic, had a few leadership roles
-My concern: had to take a medical leave of absence. I took step 1 AFTER I returned from my leave of absence so I hope that would allow me to redeem myself and prove that I am a strong candidate now that I've gotten passed my leave. Of note I've also volunteered abroad in a developing country as well as in my hometown during my leave of absence. I'm really wondering what you guys think about this in particular

I'm trying to match into an academic surgical program. Do you guys think I have a chance to match at a top 10-15 program with my stats? What would you guys recommend I do to increase my competitiveness by the time I apply?

Part of this depends on how you spin the leave, and why you had the leave.

Also, why do you need to be at a top 10-15? If you look through sdn, you'll see that it's hard to actually define which programs are top 15. i.e., there's more than 15 excellent academic programs that will allow you to accomplish your goals.

To answer the original questions: you can match at a great program. Some will be blinded by your step score and forgive a lot of other flaws (assuming you interview well). You need strong letters and a mentor/chairman someone to make calls and help you navigate this process.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

Part of this depends on how you spin the leave, and why you had the leave.

Also, why do you need to be at a top 10-15? If you look through sdn, you'll see that it's hard to actually define which programs are top 15. i.e., there's more than 15 excellent academic programs that will allow you to accomplish your goals.

To answer the original questions: you can match at a great program. Some will be blinded by your step score and forgive a lot of other flaws (assuming you interview well). You need strong letters and a mentor/chairman someone to make calls and help you navigate this process.

What flaws does the OP have other than the leave and HP in surgery? Maybe I'm misinformed but I can't imagine anyone caring about the leave. Top 5 Med school, 250+ Step 1, and decent research should result in a strong match given decent interview skills/LOR. Perhaps not Top 15 (whatever that is) but definitely a strong academic program.

 

[ACSurgeon]

What flaws does the OP have other than the leave and HP in surgery? Maybe I'm misinformed but I can't imagine anyone caring about the leave. Top 5 Med school, 250+ Step 1, and decent research should result in a strong match given decent interview skills/LOR. Perhaps not Top 15 (whatever that is) but definitely a strong academic program.

The LOA could hurt if not spun correctly. The most prestigious programs get their pick of great applicants, and the step score makes him just another candidate with a great step. So yes, the HP in surgery and LOA makes him stand out in a bad way at some programs.

Nonetheless, the point I made was that the OP should be able to match at a great academic program that won't restrict his career ambitions.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

The LOA could hurt if not spun correctly. The most prestigious programs get their pick of great applicants, and the step score makes him just another candidate with a great step. So yes, the HP in surgery and LOA makes him stand out in a bad way at some programs.

Nonetheless, the point I made was that the OP should be able to match at a great academic program that won't restrict his career ambitions.

Fair enough. It is bizarre to me how gap years when applying to Med school are often very helpful but are sometimes seen as red flags for residency apps. Don't really understand why.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Fair enough. It is bizarre to me how gap years when applying to Med school are often very helpful but are sometimes seen as red flags for residency apps. Don't really understand why.

Because the concern is that if you had one leave, whatever the problem was may create another similar leave. In medical school if you take an LOA it's no big deal -- no one is counting on you for anything. In residency, it's a huge problem for the schedule -- there are no "extra" residents hanging around. Either we have to "do without" and be short a resident on a service, or move people from electives / non critical rotations to cover absences.

The other concern is that the LOA is hiding a medical/psychiatric problem that will lead to a request for ADA accommodations. Although I'm happy to try to accommodate most reasonable requests, some requests can be a challenge and place the program in a difficult situation. "I have a sleep disorder and can't work overnight shifts" is a great example of something that could be a big problem.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

Because the concern is that if you had one leave, whatever the problem was may create another similar leave. In medical school if you take an LOA it's no big deal -- no one is counting on you for anything. In residency, it's a huge problem for the schedule -- there are no "extra" residents hanging around. Either we have to "do without" and be short a resident on a service, or move people from electives / non critical rotations to cover absences.

The other concern is that the LOA is hiding a medical/psychiatric problem that will lead to a request for ADA accommodations. Although I'm happy to try to accommodate most reasonable requests, some requests can be a challenge and place the program in a difficult situation. "I have a sleep disorder and can't work overnight shifts" is a great example of something that could be a big problem.

Great points but we can play the what-if game all day. What if a student is going through burnout and pushes through medical school because they are scared to take a LOA and then everything comes to a head during residency? What if they push past unresolved family/spouse issues that reach a breaking point during the stress of residency? What if the student just wanted a mental break before diving into residency?

I get the concerns from a residency standpoint but the fact is that medical students are medical students and have no one relying on their attendance. To label a student a risk based off a leave during med school robs them the opportunity to show growth and increased maturity as they transition from med school to residency. It is essentially assuming that they will not resolve their issues/fix their mistakes. And I think most people see residency as more of a job and understand that you can't just leave.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

People from top 5 school stays with top 5 school if they are anywhere average

Last time I checked , HMS, UCSF, Hopkins, Penn and Columbia all have good residency, guess Columbia is technically #6 lol.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

OP asked for feedback. The fact is places like Hopkins and MGH are a seller's market. They get the pick of the litter and thus any small flaw in the application will be microanalyzed, since OP will be being compared to the absolute top of the applicant pool.

So yes, the LOA and the HP in surgery will hurt. Like @lazymed said I think coming from a top 5 school with a good step they will be just fine, but these little things may make the difference between ending up at MGH or some "top 20" program - not that it's the end of the world but it's what they are asking.

As to what OP can do now? More research, ASAP

That makes more sense. Seems like if the OP does not match, it won't be because of a LOA. May not get into the top 5 but will still likely match well given an otherwise strong app.

 

[bannie22]

The top 10 of any specialty are always a crapshoot but you will def match GS

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Wouldn't taking a LOA devalue the high Step score to some extent, particularly if the LOA occurred right after MS2 giving OP much longer than average to study for the test? Point of Step is to have apples to apples, once you have somebody with a whole year of dedicated step studying time when everyone else has a few weeks it's no longer apples to apples. Same with FMGs.

 

[Jolie South]

I would like to advise the OP to not set your sights on a specific program. Maybe a type of program, yes. You will match to gen surg. We just can't tell you where.

Also, top 10 means nothing if you are unhappy and hate your life. I recommend applying broadly with a preponderance of academic programs (if that's what you want) and going on interviews to see what you like. There is no best program, only the best program for you.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Great points but we can play the what-if game all day. What if a student is going through burnout and pushes through medical school because they are scared to take a LOA and then everything comes to a head during residency? What if they push past unresolved family/spouse issues that reach a breaking point during the stress of residency? What if the student just wanted a mental break before diving into residency?

I get the concerns from a residency standpoint but the fact is that medical students are medical students and have no one relying on their attendance. To label a student a risk based off a leave during med school robs them the opportunity to show growth and increased maturity as they transition from med school to residency. It is essentially assuming that they will not resolve their issues/fix their mistakes. And I think most people see residency as more of a job and understand that you can't just leave.

I was simply answering your question. Please don't interpret this as "my thinking".

I agree that if a student just "powers through" and then implodes in residency, that's just as big a problem.

An LOA in and of itself isn't necessarily a problem. If you're open about what the LOA was about, and the issue is resolved, then programs may not care at all.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Great points but we can play the what-if game all day. What if a student is going through burnout and pushes through medical school because they are scared to take a LOA and then everything comes to a head during residency? What if they push past unresolved family/spouse issues that reach a breaking point during the stress of residency? What if the student just wanted a mental break before diving into residency?

I get the concerns from a residency standpoint but the fact is that medical students are medical students and have no one relying on their attendance. To label a student a risk based off a leave during med school robs them the opportunity to show growth and increased maturity as they transition from med school to residency. It is essentially assuming that they will not resolve their issues/fix their mistakes. And I think most people see residency as more of a job and understand that you can't just leave.

If a student burns out from two years of Med school, they'd be at very high risk of burning out during a 5 year grueling surgical residency.

 

[AcademicNeurosurgery]

If a student burns out from two years of Med school, they'd be at very high risk of burning out during a 5 year grueling surgical residency.

Not really. Everything is relative to your current situation - applying to med school is stressful when you're a premed, studying for boards is stressful during medical school, etc. People burn out for a variety of reasons. They may have started med school too late or too early, had taxing life events occur, etc. As we mature and progress through our training, we tend to develop better coping strategies and figure out how balance life. Point being burnout isn't as always just a result of two years, there are often compounding factors.