Gen Surgery boards

[ESU_MD]

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Written boards---done.

Obviously cant talk about it in specifics in writing- so the ABS police don't come and sue me for reproducing questions

but I can say I am glad it's over.

I thought the best prep was the ABSITE.

I didnt think SESAP was helpful in retrospect.
---Onto the oral exams!!!

anybody else have any general feelings?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Written boards---done.

Obviously cant talk about it in specifics in writing- so the ABS police don't come and sue me for reproducing questions

but I can say I am glad it's over.

I thought the best prep was the ABSITE.

I didnt think SESAP was helpful in retrospect.
---Onto the oral exams!!!

anybody else have any general feelings?

I wonder why as a General Surgeon seeking General Surgery certification would I be expected to know as much Urology, Orthopedics, and GYN as the ABS seems to imply with the QE.

Overall it was a fair exam.

I believe the best preparation was The ABSITE Review (Fiser) and SESAP 12/13. Of course this is all just review fodder for after you've actually read a General Surgery textbook (mine was Schwartz).

 

[Winged Scapula]

I wonder why as a General Surgeon seeking General Surgery certification would I be expected to know as much Urology, Orthopedics, and GYN as the ABS seems to imply with the QE.

Because on the orals, those specialists are never available and YOU have to know what to do!

Good luck guys!!!

 

[eclcell]

I was a little suprised how similar it was to the ABSITE. I actually spotted a repeat question for this years ABSITE. I focused mainly on SESAP and I know there were a few questions that I picked up from SESAP that I would have missed without it, but I wish I had gone over some of my old ABSITE stuff too.

 

[Castro Viejo]

I was a little suprised how similar it was to the ABSITE. I actually spotted a repeat question for this years ABSITE. I focused mainly on SESAP and I know there were a few questions that I picked up from SESAP that I would have missed without it, but I wish I had gone over some of my old ABSITE stuff too.

Yes, I agree. It's a lot more like the ABSITE than what I was lead to believe by those who came before me. Word.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I understand scores are posted today.

Congratulations to those who passed and best of luck on the CE.

 

[gerickson03m]

I was very surprised how easy the exam was compared to the ABSITE. I would go so far to say that its easier than the medical student shelf exam. I read sabiston 3-4 times during residency and every question could be answered from that text. I also have gone through SESAP (the last 2 editions) and found it not helpful for both the absite and QE (just my opinion). Now on to the CE in Oct, definitly more nervous about that.

 

[ESU_MD]

the test becomes alot "easier" once the passing results are posted.

I agree SESAP was not too useful.

Now that I passed, I can talk some smack and say the only thing you need to read is the ABSITE killer a few times... (in retrospect, of course)

onto the orals now....

what do people think about osler course? I was thinking about signing up just to have a 3 day intense prep, maybe network a little, etc.. go to as much or as little as I feel like. if I stay home, even if I am off all I will do is play video games all day.

 

[SLUser11]

I agree SESAP was not too useful.

I borrowed the SESAP 13 Audio companion from a friend, and I've been listening casually in the car. Having gone through 80% of the CDs, I think it's VERY low yield.

Also, it is packed full of biased opinions and anecdotal recommendations, without a whole lot of data for many of the topics.

Now, since I'm only a PGY-3, it could be that some of it's utility is flying right over my head, but I'm starting to wonder how helpful SESAP really is. (Also, online, the audio companion costs like $600).

Can you guys elaborate on what you found helpful and not helpful about the SESAP books?

 

[ESU_MD]

Can you guys elaborate on what you found helpful and not helpful about the SESAP books?

Helpful: it was nice to have a CD ROM of questions (or books if you prefer).
It is relatively concise. You can usually "borrow" the CD from someone in your program, so it is ubiquitous and convenient. its short and concise (~600 questions) you can do the whole thing in a weekend if you are motivated. Theres not alot of other official resources on the market

Not Helpful:
The format of the questions is not like the real boards. On the real boards- its all mostly single best choice answer. no matching, no which of the following statements are true/false. SESAP is almost ALL which of the following statements are true format- which quite frankly is very annoying and wastes your time. thats what bothers me the most.

I also didnt like the answer explanations. often times they dont justify the question. lots of controversial topics.


Overall- if you can borrow a copy of sesap- it may be ok and you probably should do it at least once. but do not rely on it for primary boards or absite. I liked the absiteKiller, and the yellow general surgery review, and kaisers gen surgery review. plus remembering the things they tested on ABSITE, its the same type as the real boards

the reason it is so popular is because you can get alot of easy CME credit by completing it.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Congratulations to my fellow General Surgeons. Onto the orals! (Although I'm gonna take a break... A long break...)

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree with ESU in regards to SESAP.

SESAP is closest to the real thing, but its not quite the same. As he notes, the SESAP includes "K" type questions which do not exist on the boards (ie, "all of the following are true except"...I also found these rather annoying and was terrified I would get them wrong on the real exam as I did so often on the practice). Nor is there any matching.

What I found MOST annoying about SESAP were the answers that they based on one study or anecdotal evidence, etc. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, if ONE study says its true, its hardly standard of care, or at least not what should be questioned on such an exam.

But the book does a good job of focusing the volume of questions that represent the real test...ie, the vast majority of the test is GI tract/abdomen. It doesn't cover Ortho (of which there are always a few questions).

The BEST study guide is old questions (if you can get them), as they are repeated. Otherwise, I found Fiser's book good as well as Cameron. The others simply have too much basic science to be useful.

 

[JackADeli]

I am going to put my 2 pennies on the QualExam/written boards and preparation.
For those that do not know, the written is broken down into five sections, 90 minutes each with the option of 10 minute breaks between each section. A longer break between sections 3 and 4 for lunch. At least I think I am remembering it correctly... but others can feel free to correct this if I am recalling this format incorrectly.

For preparation:
1. I never found the "read a text cover to cover" very helpful. I am very attention deficit, have always had problems sitting and reading. I own Greenfield, Schwartz, ACS Surgery, Mastery of Surgery, Sabiston, & Cameron. I have not read a single book cover to cover. I could never do it.
2. Throughout training I would at times pull one of the texts out to look up a specific item. But, I found by my second/third year I used "Up To Date" more then any textbook. This was not reading geared towards any specific exam. It was either an item of interest or a topic my ProgDirector might pimp me on during conference.
3. For ABSITE.... that was always a bust.
I took a weekend course after my PGY1 year to prepare for ABSITE. I found it mostly a waste of time/money. I never actually kept with any exam prep directed studying...until end of PGY4.
4. So, I gave up on ABSITE directed studying by February of my PGY4 year. At that point, I didn't care about ABSITE, I just wanted to prepare for the written/QE. I stopped beating myself up over not being able to sit and "read a text cover to cover". I took Osler at the end of PGY4. It was "spoon feeding 101". I then used the Osler syllabus material as study material. I referenced it for conferences, etc. I also used SESAP very heavily.

some have commented in a more negative manner about SESAP. I can only give you my perspective. First, recertifying attendings are encouraged by the ABS to use SESAP. Second, I spoke with numerous attendings that "read a book cover to cover"(sometimes two books) and failed the QE the first time..... they all said they should have used SESAP & Osler the first time.

5. I then re-took the Osler course just before the QE. Others had told me they used this strategy of double taking the Osler.

So what did it all mean for me?
One, while not focusing my study on ABSITE and textbook reading, I had my best improvement in ABSITE performance.
Two, I passed the QE. I don't have good study habits or good test taking skills. But recognition is key. I recognized the content and made a great deal of guesses based on content recognition.... recognition from SESAP & Osler.
My thoughts, I did NOT find the QE similar to the ABSITE. I did find the QE very much similar to content of Osler and SESAP.
Now I need to prepare for the Cert Exam.

Later

 

[eclcell]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone have insight into how the Absite and QE are put together? Obviously they don't sit around every year and come up with a whole new test. They must pull these questions out of some database and tweak it from year to year. I suspect it might even be the same database for both tests. I only say that because I know I saw at least one question that was identical to one I had on this years Absite. Or maybe some examiner was just really proud of his question and submitted it to both.

 

[tri]

Just out of curiosity. Does anyone have insight into how the Absite and QE are put together? Obviously they don't sit around every year and come up with a whole new test. They must pull these questions out of some database and tweak it from year to year. I suspect it might even be the same database for both tests. I only say that because I know I saw at least one question that was identical to one I had on this years Absite. Or maybe some examiner was just really proud of his question and submitted it to both.

The absite is definitely pulled from a database. I usually recognize ~60-70% of the questions as repeats when I was taking the absite.

 

[Allis Clamp]

Maybe I'm in the minority....I thought SESAP 12 and SESAP 13 + Fiser prepared me well for the written boards. I would agree that doing well on the ABSITE should certainly make you confident that you will do fine and pass the test. There were quite a few similar topics on the two tests.

 

[JackADeli]

Maybe I'm in the minority....I thought SESAP 12 and SESAP 13 + Fiser prepared me well for the written boards. I would agree that doing well on the ABSITE should certainly make you confident that you will do fine and pass the test. There were quite a few similar topics on the two tests.

I have to agree that my directed exam study was really SESAP complemented/sandwhiched by attending two Osler courses.

JAD

 

[Winged Scapula]

Maybe I'm in the minority....I thought SESAP 12 and SESAP 13 + Fiser prepared me well for the written boards. I would agree that doing well on the ABSITE should certainly make you confident that you will do fine and pass the test. There were quite a few similar topics on the two tests.

I don't know if you're in the minority. I used SESAP as well, because, of course, its what we're all told to use.

Like JackADeli, I could never sit down and read a textbook from start to finish. I would read chapters or bits when dealing with a specific problem but I also am a book ***** and its hard to swear my alliegance to one tome.

At any rate, SESAP was good in that it closely represented the real exam in terms of how the questions were written although I thought in many respects the actual exam was easier. Osler was helpful to organize my studying but the notes and lecturers were of variable quality.

 

[JackADeli]

....At any rate, SESAP was good in that it closely represented the real exam in terms of how the questions were written although I thought in many respects the actual exam was easier. Osler was helpful to organize my studying but the notes and lecturers were of variable quality.

I got to agree. The questions were quite similar to SESAP. The "stems" on the exam seemed shorter then SESAP. If you work through all the SESAP and carefully read the critiques/explanations, I think that is more then half the battle.

My sitting through Osler allowed me to focus and organize. The combination was a winner for me.

 

[Allis Clamp]

I'm trying to decide whether or not the Osler course is worth it for the oral boards. I noticed on their webpage they publish a book of oral board scenarios. My plan was to use Safe Answers + the Osler oral board book. Any thoughts?

 

[JackADeli]

I'm trying to decide whether or not the Osler course is worth it for the oral boards. I noticed on their webpage they publish a book of oral board scenarios. My plan was to use Safe Answers + the Osler oral board book. Any thoughts?

I might actually take their (Osler) CE course given in same city several days before. I just am not sure how to prepare. Some say the CE is "easier" the QE, others say CE is harder. My previous GSurge PD said they just revamped the CE structure so each room has a larger number of short scenarios. They are apparently trying to ensure you do not get stuck on one scenario and then fail because they did not adequately evaluate you.... because you spent your time on one scenario.