General Pediatrician or PNP? (high school, help!)

[sarahangel53225]

Hi everyone! I’m a rising senior in high school starting to apply for college, and im really conflicted as to what I want to be after college. For the past couple years, I’ve loved the idea of being a general pediatrician with my own clinic one day. I even did internships and shadowed a pediatrician, which definitely increased my interest in the profession. However, I’ve been doing a lot of research about the work-life balance of a primary care physician, and it seems as though there is not much (unless they work part-time, which means a lower salary). My number one goal in life is to be a mom, and I feel like if I pursue medical school and have kids as early as I would like (late twenties), I won’t be able to spend as much time with them, especially during residency. Part of me wants to go all in and pray it will work out, but the other half wants to be realistic and see if there’s a different career path.

Because I want a schedule where I’ll be able to leave my work at work and home stuff at home, I’ve also considered being a pediatric or neonatal nurse (didn’t get to shadow either though). If I became a nurse, I would still be able to have patient interaction (if not more) and I would have a better work-life balance, I think. I also wouldn’t be in school for as long and can start a family earlier. My only thing about nursing is that I feel like it’s not as respected, and I also like to be in charge, so I would most likely become a PNP or NNP to have more autonomy and such. That is another reason why I don’t know if it’s worth it to go to medical school. If I can do pretty much the same thing a general pediatrician does as a PNP, then what’s the point of spending 11 years in training? I know my salary might be quite lower, but I would sacrifice that for more time with family. I really just don’t know because I know I would love being a Pediatrician (from shadowing and research), but I feel that if I shadowed a PNP, I would also enjoy that. Im not really interested in specializing, since that means more years of training and more sacrifice. So I don’t know if I should just be pre-med and try to shadow more (although that’s not possible right now due to corona), or if I should major in nursing and go from there. Is that a good idea? Will I still be respected and have autonomy as a nurse? Is it as fulfilling as being a doctor? If I did become a Pediatrician, would I be able to achieve work-life balance (most likely would work part-time). Is it worth it if I know for sure I would just do primary care? I would really really appreciate it if someone gave me some advice, as this is all I’ve been thinking about for the last few months!!

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[mvenus929]

There's a lot to unpack here.

Being a nurse is different than being a physician. If you become a PNP, it's important to realize that you will not know as much as a physician, and even if you practice without the oversight of a physician, you will not have the knowledge base to recognize or manage complex patients. I don't know the lifestyle of a PNP, but to be a good one, I can't imagine it's less time at the office than a pediatrician. Now, if you want to be a NNP, you can absolutely do shiftwork and you'll already be supervised by an attending neonatologist. You'll get more training than most pediatric residents, but won't be a neonatologist.

One of our nurses just got her FNP. I love her to death as a nurse, but it is very, very clear that she has knowledge gaps. Those are likely to decrease over time as she gets more experience (after all, most of that knowledge I gained during residency), but it still puts her at a disadvantage.

As to whether or not it's fulfilling to be a nurse (or an NP) vs a doctor, most of us chose to pursue medicine because we wanted autonomy (which you will be limited in as a nurse, though nursing lobbies are pushing for more autonomy as NPs, which could put more patients at risk bc again... you don't know what you don't know), to be leaders of the team, and couldn't see ourselves doing anything else.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I am going to direct you to this thread: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/pediatrician-vs-pnp.1411568/

This answers a lot and has great comments from a ton of people. I am going to quote my response, not because it is the best one there, but because I don't feel like retyping it.

I think you answered your own question, you just need to reflect on what it means to you. There is an educational gap. Is that something you are OK with? The answer actually depends.

Nurses and physicians are different career paths, not a further progression on the same path. The foundational training of nursing is different than a physician. And then when you move to advanced training, you build on that foundation. If you are wanting well child checks and want to operate under the supervision (using that word very broadly) of someone, than NP may be for you. As a physician, the buck stops with me. Because of that, I am unwilling to deal with that gap in education.

Yes it often looks like PNPs and pediatricians do the exact same thing. And often they are. But often, that pediatrician is not operating at the top of their training level whereas the PNP is. I am in PEM and many hospitals have PEM fellowship trained physicians as well as general pediatricians who work in the ED. Day to day, their job looks exactly the same. But in those situations where it really matters, the training difference is significant and noticeable. I didn't go to fellowship for the low acuity patients, which is actually the significant bulk of what I see. I went to fellowship to handle everything that comes in the ED including those very high acuity patients. And we have NPs in the ED operating at a similar level and it can appear similar. But it definitely isn't.

So what can you deal with? But as others have said, focus on college first. A statistic that I read once (don't remember where, don't have a source, but anecdotally it fits) is that about 7% of people who start college with intention of going to medical school will actually attend medical school. And while you may love pediatrics, you don't get to specialize until you graduate medical school which is a lot of adults. That's ok, we all did it, but it is there. So focus on finding a degree that you can do well in and determine if medical school is for you.

 

[sarahangel53225]

There's a lot to unpack here.

Being a nurse is different than being a physician. If you become a PNP, it's important to realize that you will not know as much as a physician, and even if you practice without the oversight of a physician, you will not have the knowledge base to recognize or manage complex patients. I don't know the lifestyle of a PNP, but to be a good one, I can't imagine it's less time at the office than a pediatrician. Now, if you want to be a NNP, you can absolutely do shiftwork and you'll already be supervised by an attending neonatologist. You'll get more training than most pediatric residents, but won't be a neonatologist.

One of our nurses just got her FNP. I love her to death as a nurse, but it is very, very clear that she has knowledge gaps. Those are likely to decrease over time as she gets more experience (after all, most of that knowledge I gained during residency), but it still puts her at a disadvantage.

As to whether or not it's fulfilling to be a nurse (or an NP) vs a doctor, most of us chose to pursue medicine because we wanted autonomy (which you will be limited in as a nurse, though nursing lobbies are pushing for more autonomy as NPs, which could put more patients at risk bc again... you don't know what you don't know), to be leaders of the team, and couldn't see ourselves doing anything else.

Thanks so much for responding. Personality wise, I know medicine would fit more (I like to be the leader and would prefer to have as much knowledge as possible). However, I am thinking about what you said about working the same amount as a general pediatrician to be a “good” PNP. I think I would specialize if I went to medical school, so I don’t know if it’s worth it to go through all that training and sacrifice to do something very similar for a little less autonomy (and money). Perhaps I’ll change my mind after medical school, but then again, I want to have a career where I can spend a lot of time with family, and I don’t know if I can do that as a specialist.

 

[sarahangel53225]

I am going to direct you to this thread: Pediatrician vs PNP

This answers a lot and has great comments from a ton of people. I am going to quote my response, not because it is the best one there, but because I don't feel like retyping it.

Thanks for directing me to this thread. I’m aware of the difference in the knowledge base between the two, but I feel that I would be ok with that for more time with family (which I feel I wouldn’t have if I do a fellowship after residency). That’s the main reason why I’m interested in primary care (better work-life balance). Now, if PNPs work as much as general pediatricians, then I guess it would make more sense to just go to medical school.

 

[mvenus929]

Thanks so much for responding. Personality wise, I know medicine would fit more (I like to be the leader and would prefer to have as much knowledge as possible). However, I am thinking about what you said about working the same amount as a general pediatrician to be a “good” PNP. I think I would specialize if I went to medical school, so I don’t know if it’s worth it to go through all that training and sacrifice to do something very similar for a little less autonomy (and money). Perhaps I’ll change my mind after medical school, but then again, I want to have a career where I can spend a lot of time with family, and I don’t know if I can do that as a specialist.

I'd argue it's probably easier to spend time with family as a specialist, depending on the specialty. In PEM, for instance, when you're off, you're definitely off. Same with hospitalist. Same with ICU. The work hours may suck a little more compared to an 8-5 general peds office, but the general peds office is going to have a lot more paperwork and notes than the others will.

The general pediatricians I know tend to focus on some aspect of care that's beyond what an NP typically does--one does a lot of psych management, and several others do more complex care.

I have NPs working in my practice as well, but I see far more complicated patients than they do and definitely work more towards the limits of my knowledge base. And we have attendings in our division who do 2 days of clinic and 2 admin days per week, with call on the order of once every 3 weeks. It's certainly possible to get a good lifestyle being a peds specialist.

 

[sarahangel53225]

I'd argue it's probably easier to spend time with family as a specialist, depending on the specialty. In PEM, for instance, when you're off, you're definitely off. Same with hospitalist. Same with ICU. The work hours may suck a little more compared to an 8-5 general peds office, but the general peds office is going to have a lot more paperwork and notes than the others will.

The general pediatricians I know tend to focus on some aspect of care that's beyond what an NP typically does--one does a lot of psych management, and several others do more complex care.

I have NPs working in my practice as well, but I see far more complicated patients than they do and definitely work more towards the limits of my knowledge base. And we have attendings in our division who do 2 days of clinic and 2 admin days per week, with call on the order of once every 3 weeks. It's certainly possible to get a good lifestyle being a peds specialist.

Gotcha...I guess being a specialist is worth considering in that case. The other career choice I’m looking at is pediatric pharmacy, which I feel like would combine aspects of being a doctor with a focus in chem/bio. I also heard pharmacists have a better work life balance than doctors. My only concern is the job saturation that exists within the field, as I’m worried I wouldn’t find a job after graduation.

 

[hmockingbird]

I think you can have work life balance in most fields, you just may sacrifice something else (pay, location, etc).

I would honestly just keep your options open right now and do some more research into the different fields. Shadow when you can. Think about what you actually LIKE doing. Yes, all of these careers are in healthcare but they are all wildly different!

Do you want to be the end of the road expert in diagnosis, but maybe not spend as much time with patients in some specialties? — Doctor
Do you want lots of direct patient interaction, but are ok with not being the one to make the plan? (You’ll still need to be able to think critically as you’re often the first one to notice any issues.) — nurse
Do you want to be able to diagnose patients and prescribe treatment, but are ok with not being the final say/expert? — PA/NP
Do you want to be able to be the expert in your narrower field and still have patient contact? — audiology, dentistry, speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, etc
Do you want to be an expert on medications and sometimes be more behind the scenes? (Granted pharmacists do patient counselling on meds!) — pharmacy
Do you have a special interest/talent you want to bring to healthcare and use it to help patients cope and heal? — music or art therapy
Do you want to play with kids, have expertise in their development and help them cope with illness? — child life
Do you want to focus on mental health? — if you only want to do therapy, psychology, masters level therapist or social worker; if you want to help coordinate full care for patients and help with social inequalities, social work; if you want to prescribe meds, psychiatry

 

[sarahangel53225]

I think you can have work life balance in most fields, you just may sacrifice something else (pay, location, etc).

I would honestly just keep your options open right now and do some more research into the different fields. Shadow when you can. Think about what you actually LIKE doing. Yes, all of these careers are in healthcare but they are all wildly different!

Do you want to be the end of the road expert in diagnosis, but maybe not spend as much time with patients in some specialties? — Doctor
Do you want lots of direct patient interaction, but are ok with not being the one to make the plan? (You’ll still need to be able to think critically as you’re often the first one to notice any issues.) — nurse
Do you want to be able to diagnose patients and prescribe treatment, but are ok with not being the final say/expert? — PA/NP
Do you want to be able to be the expert in your narrower field and still have patient contact? — audiology, dentistry, speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, etc
Do you want to be an expert on medications and sometimes be more behind the scenes? (Granted pharmacists do patient counselling on meds!) — pharmacy
Do you have a special interest/talent you want to bring to healthcare and use it to help patients cope and heal? — music or art therapy
Do you want to play with kids, have expertise in their development and help them cope with illness? — child life
Do you want to focus on mental health? — if you only want to do therapy, psychology, masters level therapist or social worker; if you want to help coordinate full care for patients and help with social inequalities, social work; if you want to prescribe meds, psychiatry

This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much. It’s made me realize that I really DON’T know for sure what I want to do with the rest of my life, but since I’m only 17, I suppose I shouldn’t try and make a decision now. The only thing I’m certain of as of now is that I want to be in healthcare and work with kids, and some of the options you mentioned above peaked my interest. Let me stop stressing now and wait to shadow in college to figure out what I really like doing. Thanks again, you’re the best!

 

[hmockingbird]

This is incredibly helpful, thank you so much. It’s made me realize that I really DON’T know for sure what I want to do with the rest of my life, but since I’m only 17, I suppose I shouldn’t try and make a decision now. The only thing I’m certain of as of now is that I want to be in healthcare and work with kids, and some of the options you mentioned above peaked my interest. Let me stop stressing now and wait to shadow in college to figure out what I really like doing. Thanks again, you’re the best!

No problem! If you need to make course decisions for college, the good news is most of these are grad programs and many have similar pre-reqs so that gives you plenty of time. (Also my understanding is that many nursing programs require a year of pre-reqs and you are actually admitted to the program during sophomore year.)

 

[PikminOC]

No problem! If you need to make course decisions for college, the good news is most of these are grad programs and many have similar pre-reqs so that gives you plenty of time. (Also my understanding is that many nursing programs require a year of pre-reqs and you are actually admitted to the program during sophomore year.)

Nursing prerequisites are much easier than medical ones as you take the courses with other nursing students and even the prerequisites are watered down

 

[Appellatelove]

Not sure why people feel that being a physician is not compatible with being a mom. Many female physicians become mothers. Furthermore, I don’t see posts from men wondering if they should consider a different field because of work life balance. Pursue what you want and figure out family things later. Personally, I went to Med school later in life and never let that stop me from having a baby and maintaining my marriage. I wanted to be a doctor so I’m going to be a doctor. It also makes me feel better that as a physician, I’ll have a higher income to afford college, a nice neighborhood, and any other resources my daughter may need.

 

[DO2015CA]

Not sure why people feel that being a physician is not compatible with being a mom. Many female physicians become mothers. Furthermore, I don’t see posts from men wondering if they should consider a different field because of work life balance. Pursue what you want and figure out family things later. Personally, I went to Med school later in life and never let that stop me from having a baby and maintaining my marriage. I wanted to be a doctor so I’m going to be a doctor. It also makes me feel better that as a physician, I’ll have a higher income to afford college, a nice neighborhood, and any other resources my daughter may need.

As a man, and a father, I 100% chose my field on work life balance. Well field within pediatrics. It just we dont get the external criticism that female physicians do, which is not right.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

As a man, and a father, I 100% chose my field on work life balance. Well field within pediatrics. It just we dont get the external criticism that female physicians do, which is not right.

Agreed. I’m still a med student, but I’m a male and definitely picking a specialty that allows me more time with my wife and kids (and cats).

 

[DeadCactus]

I don't think anyone should be discouraged from medicine for wanting to be a mom. Plenty of physicians are fantastic parents and physicians have had kids at various points in their career from before college to after fellowship. But I also think you have to address the realities of medicine if someone's main goals are family and work-life balance. Physicians talk about work-life balance but frankly we often have a biased perspective based on comparisons to other people in medicine. Yea, now in my 30's I have a great work-life balance compared to a surgeon. But overall, my work-life balance is pretty trash compared to someone who graduated a decade ago into a career like nursing, engineering, accounting, business, etc. Medicine means spending a decade of your life fitting your life, family, and friends around the educational and training requirements of your profession. Some people's goals will require more sacrifice than others but I think some sort of significant sacrifice is pretty ubiquitous.

Ultimately, the question comes down to what does medicine offer you that you value enough to make some sacrifices for? That's a hard question to answer at 17 and the reality is many people completely change their mind about what they want to do with their life during their early 20's and beyond.

Your goal right now is to avoid introducing obstacles or closing any doors (get good grades, don't get arrested, etc) and to take some time to explore the world and get to know yourself and start defining some abstract idea of what a successful life means to you. There are people out their grinding 80+ hours a week to make millions, there are people living in a van to be outside climbing 40 hours a week, there are people working 40 hours a week helping others and making enough for a house in a nice neighborhood and regular vacations, etc. Any one of these scenarios could be a personal hell for one person and a dream come true for another person. Once you have the framework for what a happy life would look like to you, you can start looking at it through the lens of healthcare or science or whatever field catches your eye to decide what route is the best fit to get you there. Maybe it's as a nurse. Maybe as an NP. Maybe as a PA or physician or PhD or dentist or programmer or administrator or plumber or something else. The bottom line is don't get pigeonholed into a single track so early.

For the time being, college is a reasonable path forward for most people and you have to pick a major. If you think bedside nursing would be a satisfying career, you can always start down that path and use it as a foundation for something else if you change your mind. If you don't think you'd like being a nurse, then major in something more general that sounds interesting and reassess later. There are plenty of options to transition into a nursing or other healthcare position later down the road. I would suggest something that reasonably leads to a job after you finish though.

In terms of your other specific questions:
- Medicine in general and pediatrics specifically can ultimately result in a nice life-work balance.
- Nurses are respected and trusted by the general public and for the most part in healthcare. There are a lot of egos in healthcare so, even as a physician, you'll be treated with disrespect by some of the people you work with.
- Whether nursing will be fulfilling is a personal question along the lines of the points above. You will be a productive, educated, and comfortably paid member of society doing work that is generally valued. In the grand scheme of things, you'll be in a better position than the majority of the world and a lot of those in Western civilization. Plenty of people would still be unsatisfied but plenty of people are also unsatisfied as physicians.

 

[sarahangel53225]

I don't think anyone should be discouraged from medicine for wanting to be a mom. Plenty of physicians are fantastic parents and physicians have had kids at various points in their career from before college to after fellowship. But I also think you have to address the realities of medicine if someone's main goals are family and work-life balance. Physicians talk about work-life balance but frankly we often have a biased perspective based on comparisons to other people in medicine. Yea, now in my 30's I have a great work-life balance compared to a surgeon. But overall, my work-life balance is pretty trash compared to someone who graduated a decade ago into a career like nursing, engineering, accounting, business, etc. Medicine means spending a decade of your life fitting your life, family, and friends around the educational and training requirements of your profession. Some people's goals will require more sacrifice than others but I think some sort of significant sacrifice is pretty ubiquitous.

Ultimately, the question comes down to what does medicine offer you that you value enough to make some sacrifices for? That's a hard question to answer at 17 and the reality is many people completely change their mind about what they want to do with their life during their early 20's and beyond.

Your goal right now is to avoid introducing obstacles or closing any doors (get good grades, don't get arrested, etc) and to take some time to explore the world and get to know yourself and start defining some abstract idea of what a successful life means to you. There are people out their grinding 80+ hours a week to make millions, there are people living in a van to be outside climbing 40 hours a week, there are people working 40 hours a week helping others and making enough for a house in a nice neighborhood and regular vacations, etc. Any one of these scenarios could be a personal hell for one person and a dream come true for another person. Once you have the framework for what a happy life would look like to you, you can start looking at it through the lens of healthcare or science or whatever field catches your eye to decide what route is the best fit to get you there. Maybe it's as a nurse. Maybe as an NP. Maybe as a PA or physician or PhD or dentist or programmer or administrator or plumber or something else. The bottom line is don't get pigeonholed into a single track so early.

For the time being, college is a reasonable path forward for most people and you have to pick a major. If you think bedside nursing would be a satisfying career, you can always start down that path and use it as a foundation for something else if you change your mind. If you don't think you'd like being a nurse, then major in something more general that sounds interesting and reassess later. There are plenty of options to transition into a nursing or other healthcare position later down the road. I would suggest something that reasonably leads to a job after you finish though.

In terms of your other specific questions:
- Medicine in general and pediatrics specifically can ultimately result in a nice life-work balance.
- Nurses are respected and trusted by the general public and for the most part in healthcare. There are a lot of egos in healthcare so, even as a physician, you'll be treated with disrespect by some of the people you work with.
- Whether nursing will be fulfilling is a personal question along the lines of the points above. You will be a productive, educated, and comfortably paid member of society doing work that is generally valued. In the grand scheme of things, you'll be in a better position than the majority of the world and a lot of those in Western civilization. Plenty of people would still be unsatisfied but plenty of people are also unsatisfied as physicians.

This is really helpful. Medicine is the only area that I’ve received any “job” experience in (through an internship), but I suppose I should wait until college to explore other areas of interest. Honestly, I just want a job where I can work with children, make a decent pay check and still have a life that doesn’t revolve around work. I thought being a Pediatrician would be the best way to do that, but perhaps I should wait until I have more life experience to make that decision.

 

[DO2015CA]

This is really helpful. Medicine is the only area that I’ve received any “job” experience in (through an internship), but I suppose I should wait until college to explore other areas of interest. Honestly, I just want a job where I can work with children, make a decent pay check and still have a life that doesn’t revolve around work. I thought being a Pediatrician would be the best way to do that, but perhaps I should wait until I have more life experience to make that decision.

Pediatrics is the absolutely doable for moms. There are plenty of outpatient only primary care jobs without call

 

[DeadCactus]

This is really helpful. Medicine is the only area that I’ve received any “job” experience in (through an internship), but I suppose I should wait until college to explore other areas of interest. Honestly, I just want a job where I can work with children, make a decent pay check and still have a life that doesn’t revolve around work. I thought being a Pediatrician would be the best way to do that, but perhaps I should wait until I have more life experience to make that decision.

The median family income in the US is $65k/year. There are many jobs that involve working with children that pay an individual $50k+/year. Certainly not all of them pay the 6 figure salary of medicine but many are also have shorter training requirements and less debt; the lifetime earnings may not be as different as you would think. Being a pediatrician or NP or PA may end up being a great fit for what you want but there are many other important professions where directly interacting and working with children is more prominent. I love being a physician and particularly love taking care of pediatric patients but a lot of my job satisfaction comes from the leadership and science aspects of the job as well as the unfortunately brief patient interactions. Nurses interact directly with my patients far more than I do. Physical, occupation, and speech therapists spend entire sessions essentially one-on-one working with patients. Child Life Specialists work directly with kids in the hospital to help them adjust to hospitalization and make it through scary procedures. Pediatric behavioral and psychiatric health workers at all levels are greatly needed in this country (and probably many others). Dentists can specialise in pediatric patients. Outside of healthcare are even more options. Kids need social workers, lawyers, teachers, coaches, mentors, etc.

The bottom line is that there are many ways of working with children, it's just a matter of deciding what you want to do for them.

 

[sarahangel53225]

The median family income in the US is $65k/year. There are many jobs that involve working with children that pay an individual $50k+/year. Certainly not all of them pay the 6 figure salary of medicine but many are also have shorter training requirements and less debt; the lifetime earnings may not be as different as you would think. Being a pediatrician or NP or PA may end up being a great fit for what you want but there are many other important professions where directly interacting and working with children is more prominent. I love being a physician and particularly love taking care of pediatric patients but a lot of my job satisfaction comes from the leadership and science aspects of the job as well as the unfortunately brief patient interactions. Nurses interact directly with my patients far more than I do. Physical, occupation, and speech therapists spend entire sessions essentially one-on-one working with patients. Child Life Specialists work directly with kids in the hospital to help them adjust to hospitalization and make it through scary procedures. Pediatric behavioral and psychiatric health workers at all levels are greatly needed in this country (and probably many others). Dentists can specialise in pediatric patients. Outside of healthcare are even more options. Kids need social workers, lawyers, teachers, coaches, mentors, etc.

The bottom line is that there are many ways of working with children, it's just a matter of deciding what you want to do for them.

I noticed that you mentioned brief patient interactions. Is that common in primary care? I assumed I could spend more time with patients as a general Pediatrician...?

 

[sarahangel53225]

Pediatrics is the absolutely doable for moms. There are plenty of outpatient only primary care jobs without call

Ok, terrific! Is it common for people to work part time as well? If so, what’s considered “part time”?

 

[DO2015CA]

Ok, terrific! Is it common for people to work part time as well? If so, what’s considered “part time”?

Pediatricians have the highest rate of part time physicians last time I checked. Idk what is considered part time but the 4.5 days per week from 8:30-4:30 is doable for most people. Anecdotally, I know a pediatrician that she works 3 full days per week 8-5. Id call that part time

 

[DeadCactus]

I noticed that you mentioned brief patient interactions. Is that common in primary care? I assumed I could spend more time with patients as a general Pediatrician...?

I’ll defer to general pediatricians on how long typical appointments are now but being a physician is not typically about sitting down for 30+ minutes of direct interaction with any one patient particularly in the primary care setting (psychiatry and some of the subspecialties may be an exception). I think everyone hopes that technology will eventually reduce some of the burdens that detract from face to face time with patients but this is just as likely to result in seeing more patients as it is to result in spending more time with any one patient. The unfortunate reality is that the physician is the most expensive part of the care team and the system is naturally going to pressure physician encounters to be as short as possible. Some employers or practices will take that pressure to a farther extreme than others.

 

[sarahangel53225]

I’ll defer to general pediatricians on how long typical appointments are now but being a physician is not typically about sitting down for 30+ minutes of direct interaction with any one patient particularly in the primary care setting (psychiatry and some of the subspecialties may be an exception). I think everyone hopes that technology will eventually reduce some of the burdens that detract from face to face time with patients but this is just as likely to result in seeing more patients as it is to result in spending more time with any one patient. The unfortunate reality is that the physician is the most expensive part of the care team and the system is naturally going to pressure physician encounters to be as short as possible. Some employers or practices will take that pressure to a farther extreme than others.

I understand, thanks for bringing this up.

 

[sarahangel53225]

Pediatricians have the highest rate of part time physicians last time I checked. Idk what is considered part time but the 4.5 days per week from 8:30-4:30 is doable for most people. Anecdotally, I know a pediatrician that she works 3 full days per week 8-5. Id call that part time

Sounds great. Thank you!

 

[NITRAS]

I noticed that you mentioned brief patient interactions. Is that common in primary care? I assumed I could spend more time with patients as a general Pediatrician...?

Think about it. Doctors see between 3-5 patients an hour. (sometimes more). 3 patients and hour is 20 minutes a patient. Don't forget you have to account for notes/orders. Also some lag time for those that are going to take more time. Reality is you spend 1-2 minutes reviewing, 2 minutes chit chatting, 3 minutes in history/exam, 2 minutes in plan. Out, orders, note, next.

Welcome to medicine.

 

[deleted480308]

I noticed that you mentioned brief patient interactions. Is that common in primary care? I assumed I could spend more time with patients as a general Pediatrician...?

How much time do you think you have per patient , including all chart review and documentation?

 

[sarahangel53225]

Think about it. Doctors see between 3-5 patients an hour. (sometimes more). 3 patients and hour is 20 minutes a patient. Don't forget you have to account for notes/orders. Also some lag time for those that are going to take more time. Reality is you spend 1-2 minutes reviewing, 2 minutes chit chatting, 3 minutes in history/exam, 2 minutes in plan. Out, orders, note, next.

Welcome to medicine.

Yeah I don’t know if this is for me...

 

[sarahangel53225]

How much time do you think you have per patient , including all chart review and documentation?

When I shadowed the physician spent about 15-25 min with each patient, and it didn’t feel rushed or anything like that.

 

[DO2015CA]

When I shadowed the physician spent about 15-25 min with each patient, and it didn’t feel rushed or anything like that.

It’s all going to depend what money you want to make/your employers expectations. There can be Cush jobs 15 pts Per day but they aren’t breaking the bank.

 

[mvenus929]

When I shadowed the physician spent about 15-25 min with each patient, and it didn’t feel rushed or anything like that.

Oh, there are ways to make 15 minutes feel very rushed, and ways to make it feel like an eternity.

But on the back end, you still have the notes (I do half my notes in the room and still have some to do when I leave), plus orders, following up on labs, imaging, filling out paperwork, etc.