Quantcast

General surgery residency

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

wolly99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
1

Members don't see this ad.
Hello, I'm a fresh graduate IMG from Africa and I did have a green card.
I pass step 1 with 249, step 2 with 256, no USCE, no research, abstract.
I know there is no chance to get matched into categorical general surgery, my question is:
1. do I have qualifications to get matched into preliminary GS?
2. If my score is not enough for preliminary GS, What shall I do to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?
3-If I complete preliminary GS, besides couples researches, is that enough for categorical GS?
thanks in advance,
just ignore any grammar mistakes
 

Dral

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
2,505
Reaction score
2,073
I'm not a surgeon and have obviously then not gone through GS residency, but the way I understand it, you are probably correct in that you have a pretty low chance of getting in a categorical GS program right now (especially with no research).

You could get a prelim spot with your stats. However, again the way I understand it, they are very often dead end positions if you have nothing else already lined up after them. I guess there is a chance that if you are at a program as a prelim surgery intern and someone who is in the categorical class leaves, you could have a chance to get their spot. However, I don't think it's very common at all for someone who is a GS prelim to match into a categorical surgical spot somewhere else. So in other words, getting in a surgical prelim year does not in general really increase your chances of getting a GS categorical spot down the line.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

candbgirl

Full Member
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
5,976
Reaction score
6,628
Hello, I'm a fresh graduate IMG from Africa and I did have a green card.
I pass step 1 with 249, step 2 with 256, no USCE, no research, abstract.
I know there is no chance to get matched into categorical general surgery, my question is:
1. do I have qualifications to get matched into preliminary GS?
2. If my score is not enough for preliminary GS, What shall I do to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?
3-If I complete preliminary GS, besides couples researches, is that enough for categorical GS?
thanks in advance,
just ignore any grammar mistakes
I know you said to ignore your grammar mistakes but do you currently have a green card( I did have a green card.) and what is couples researches? Your step scores are very good but without USCE I don’t think you can match at all. Maybe that should be your first step in pursuing your goals. @Dral is correct. Preliminary GS prelim spots are sort of dead end. But you never know what will happen. But I don’t think anyone on here can guide you on what to do “to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?”. There are really no guarantees for something like that. Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Dave1980

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
1,079
Reaction score
1,952
Hello, I'm a fresh graduate IMG from Africa and I did have a green card.
I pass step 1 with 249, step 2 with 256, no USCE, no research, abstract.
I know there is no chance to get matched into categorical general surgery, my question is:
1. do I have qualifications to get matched into preliminary GS?
2. If my score is not enough for preliminary GS, What shall I do to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?
3-If I complete preliminary GS, besides couples researches, is that enough for categorical GS?
thanks in advance,
just ignore any grammar mistakes

i think language and culture barriers may exist.
 
  • Okay...
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

collegestud2013

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
573
Reaction score
294
Hello, I'm a fresh graduate IMG from Africa and I did have a green card.
I pass step 1 with 249, step 2 with 256, no USCE, no research, abstract.
I know there is no chance to get matched into categorical general surgery, my question is:
1. do I have qualifications to get matched into preliminary GS?
2. If my score is not enough for preliminary GS, What shall I do to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?
3-If I complete preliminary GS, besides couples researches, is that enough for categorical GS?
thanks in advance,
just ignore any grammar mistakes
You can probably can get into a GS prelim spot even with out USCE since hundreds of spots go unfilled each year in the Match and programs just need people to staff their services. Be aware that many are malignant, and most of them take advantage of interns to do scutwork for over 80 hrs per week and they usually have little incentive to provide good surgical training (since most are there to just to get through the year and move on to another specialty) which makes them undesirable.

It's definitely possible to switch from prelim to eventually switch categorical but not guaranteed. Some possible ways are:
1) a categorical GS resident at your program leaves after their PGY-1 year and your PD takes you as a PGY-2 categorical the next year if they're happy to keep you (this may not be uncommon since GS residency has the highest turnover of any specialty). This is probably the easiest way but obviously can't count on someone leaving though.
2) a categorical GS resident at another program leaves after PGY-1 year and you transfer there as a PGY-2 to fill their place.
3) You can reapply for categorical GS in the Match. Having the GS prelim year helps slightly for for mid to lower tier programs assuming the rest of your application has no major academic issues. and your current PD is supportive. You can re-apply to the same program as your GS prelim year if you want to stay there and they may take you if they like you, and if no PGY-2 spot opened up at your program. The only downside to this is that you would have to repeat your PGY-1 year since all GS positions in the Match start at the PGY-1 level.
4) There are some PGY-2 prelim Surgery spots that you can transfer to after your prelim year. These are specially designed for those who completed PGY-1 prelim year but can't find a categorical spot. From there you would try to transfer to a PGY-3 GS spot.
4) If #1-4 don't work out you can find a Surgery-related research position after your prelim year to make some connections and gets some pubs. For an IMG, having a strong research background is essential to getting any competitive residency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

wolly99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
I'm not a surgeon and have obviously then not gone through GS residency, but the way I understand it, you are probably correct in that you have a pretty low chance of getting in a categorical GS program right now (especially with no research).

You could get a prelim spot with your stats. However, again the way I understand it, they are very often dead end positions if you have nothing else already lined up after them. I guess there is a chance that if you are at a program as a prelim surgery intern and someone who is in the categorical class leaves, you could have a chance to get their spot. However, I don't think it's very common at all for someone who is a GS prelim to match into a categorical surgical spot somewhere else. So in other words, getting in a surgical prelim year does not in general really increase your chances of getting a GS categorical spot down the line.
thanks, that was helpful
 

wolly99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
I know you said to ignore your grammar mistakes but do you currently have a green card( I did have a green card.) and what is couples researches? Your step scores are very good but without USCE I don’t think you can match at all. Maybe that should be your first step in pursuing your goals. @Dral is correct. Preliminary GS prelim spots are sort of dead end. But you never know what will happen. But I don’t think anyone on here can guide you on what to do “to ensure that I will definitely get preliminary GS?”. There are really no guarantees for something like that. Good luck.
yes, I do have a green card.
I just wondering If someone had take the same pathway
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

wolly99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
thanks doc, pretty helpful
You can probably can get into a GS prelim spot even with out USCE since hundreds of spots go unfilled each year in the Match and programs just need people to staff their services. Be aware that many are malignant, and most of them take advantage of interns to do scutwork for over 80 hrs per week and they usually have little incentive to provide good surgical training (since most are there to just to get through the year and move on to another specialty) which makes them undesirable.

It's definitely possible to switch from prelim to eventually switch categorical but not guaranteed. Some possible ways are:
1) a categorical GS resident at your program leaves after their PGY-1 year and your PD takes you as a PGY-2 categorical the next year if they're happy to keep you (this may not be uncommon since GS residency has the highest turnover of any specialty). This is probably the easiest way but obviously can't count on someone leaving though.
2) a categorical GS resident at another program leaves after PGY-1 year and you transfer there as a PGY-2 to fill their place.
3) You can reapply for categorical GS in the Match. Having the GS prelim year helps slightly for for mid to lower tier programs assuming the rest of your application has no major academic issues. and your current PD is supportive. You can re-apply to the same program as your GS prelim year if you want to stay there and they may take you if they like you, and if no PGY-2 spot opened up at your program. The only downside to this is that you would have to repeat your PGY-1 year since all GS positions in the Match start at the PGY-1 level.
4) There are some PGY-2 prelim Surgery spots that you can transfer to after your prelim year. These are specially designed for those who completed PGY-1 prelim year but can't find a categorical spot. From there you would try to transfer to a PGY-3 GS spot.
4) If #1-4 don't work out you can find a Surgery-related research position after your prelim year to make some connections and gets some pubs. For an IMG, having a strong research background is essential to getting any competitive residency.
 

Banco

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
2,714
Reaction score
4,125
It is very tough to match as an IMG into surgery. Your scores are good though, and it's good you have a green card.

Things you will need: significant research + letters from researchers/surgeons, US clinical experience.

You can and should apply for both categorical and prelim, but realize prelim is just one step forward and you'll have to reapply unless your program gets an open spot.

So in short, doable, but very tough. IM, FM, and pediatrics are generally easier to attain as an IMG. Ultimately the biggest hurdle is out of the way though (USMLE exams).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top