Georgetown SMP? Or any SMP for that matter.

[AHappyCalBear]

Hey everyone I hope life isn't too hectic and you're keeping your sanity somehow someway.

I was hoping I would get some ood advice on what I should do in the year between my 4th year at UC Berkeley and medical school (I will begin to apply this June 2005 for Med Schools). I have an overall GPA of 3.4 but a lower science GPA of 3.0. I got a low science GPA because I got a C in Math (1st semester of college) and another C in Bio (sophomore year), ever since I've been getting As and Bs in my science classes. I got a 30R on the MCAT, 9 Physical 10 Verbal 11 Biology and a R on the writing.

So now I'm thinking I am probably a borderline appplicant and am competitive for schools like Drexel, Temple, NY Med and so on... I also have a year off and I was wondering if I am best served by attending a one year masters such as Georgetown's SMP, Boston Medical Science, Drexel, RFU programs. One problem with that is that grades from those smp programs do not start to come until January which is deep into the medical school application process, a masters might not even help at all. What to do? Are my stats competitive? Are SMP programs really worth it or just a way for schools to make money? I've done research, volunteering and numerous other activities but I'm pretty sure it comes down to stats in the end.

Thanks Guys

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[Phil Anthropist]

I think your app is going to be a crap shoot. You might get accepted this next app cycle, but I wouldn't bank on it. It seems that you have an upward trend and your MCAT is fine, but your cume is still a little bit lower than the average for matriculants and your low science gpa will still raise red flags.

I think it might be a good idea to do a one-year masters anyway...

If you file AMCAS in 2005, don't do a masters/postbac, and don't get in because of your lower cume/bcpm GPAs, then the following year you'll STILL have the GPA problem. This could mean that now you'll have to enroll in an SMP and hope to reapply with success the year after doing the program.

If you file AMCAS in 2005, DO a masters/postbac and do very well (3.7+), and don't get accepted into med school because your lower cume/bcpm undergrad GPAs, then NEXT year you'll at least have that high graduate GPA when you apply. This may make the difference and earn you multiple acceptances that year.

It is true that most of the special masters programs don't release grades until the Spring term. Some schools might already reject you pre/post-secondary and will not even see your Fall grades. Other schools might put your application on hold until around January-February when they finally see your grades. By that point, you may be interviewing for a waitlist position. G-town runs on a block schedule so you finish courses at different times. My understanding is that you can have update letters sent on your behalf (but don't quote me on that). The other programs tend to give grades out by semester, which is a huge disadvantage. Timing is huge in applying to med schools... RFU has a strong informal linkage to their med school, CMS. If you want to have the highest possibility of getting accepted to a US allo med school somewhere, then I'd hit up RFU's program. They take A LOT of students from their masters program into their med school that matriculate right after finishing the program. By that time the students are MSIAs--first year medical students with advanced standing--and their first year of med school consists of very few classes. You still have to pay full tuition though. You can just take the few classes or you can take some electives or do research. However, RFU's program has disadvantages that make it hard to get into other med schools (but it's not impossible). See the recent RFU thread

The often heard foreign medical school argument is that these programs are just money makers. That's circular logic. Caribbean schools like SGU, Ross, and AUC basically function on the basis that students will do anything it takes to have the opportunity to be a doctor. Special masters programs exist for the same reason--they give you the opportunity to be a physician but milk their students for money. Both of these programs are money-makers, BUT both also provide pathways for prospective physicians to realize their dreams. The SMPs you mention do not offer any official guarantees, but if you rock an SMP and the rest of your applicant profile is solid (looks like your ECs are) then you'll have a very high chance of getting accepted into a US med school.

Now, you may not need an SMP. And most SMPs are generally very expensive. However, your grades don't exactly make you a shoe-in for US med schools, so you'll want to consider doing an SMP. Your stats are typical of the matriculants to most of these SMPs. IMHO, for the sake of security, I think you drop the $ and enroll in an SMP. And if you DO get a med acceptance early, you can even pull out of some of the masters programs (provided that the med school that accepted you doesn't require you to finish the program--this varies).

edit: just so you know, Drexel's program is a certificate for one-year, not a masters. it's a masters if you stay for an additional year.

 

[medstylee]

if you have specific questions about the georgetown program, you can pm me. i'm a current student. i'm finding it well worth my time and money. from reading recent posts on threads about other programs, it sounds to me like georgetown is really the best option for an smp. best of luck.

 

[medanthgirl]

Phil_anthropist,

you rock! what's your story?

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Phil_anthropist,

you rock! what's your story?

Awww! You'll be sorry you asked!

Well, my story is really pretty boring. I went into undergrad as a brainwashed premed (physician parentS + ethnic background + culture I grew up in). I received a pretty generous scholarship ($9k/year at a well known private university) for my solid high school gpa and standardized test scores. But when I actually entered college, two things really hurt me: (1) I wasn't studying as much as I should have and (2) all of my motivations were just plain wrong or a result of brainwashing. The crappy motivation had a direct effect on my science grades too. My non-science record is impressive (almost 4.0), but my science record...let's just say it needs some work. I intended to take this year off after graduating to regroup. I then realized that (1) my science record could use some help and (2) I can't think of a single science professor that could write me a solid letter of recommendation. The summer immediately following graduation I got a job with the Biostatistics Department of my local hospital. The department was studying the efficiency and communication of different parts of the Emergency Department. This made me more interested in medicine than the run-of-the-mill talking to patients and clerical work of hospital volunteering. At the end of the summer, in late August, I haphazardly enrolled at a little-known private liberal arts college (known by top med schools for a strong premed program) to take upper-division bio courses. My postbac GPA (all science) is probably a 3.8+ now and I'm hoping to get it up more. I received the highest grade in my Human Physiology class last term (60+ students), I'm tutoring students in the section of Human Physiology this term, I'm doing some physiology research (unfortunately all I could get was dry lab stuff) and submitted an abstract of the research to a state academy of science (which was accepted), and I'll be the lab assistant for Comparative Physiology next term (which is funny because I never took the course). Obviously I've got an interest in physiology, but I'm also taking (or took) other courses like Immunology, Neuroanatomy (awesome!), Microbiology, etc. which are going (or went) pretty well. The problem is that I'm reaching a point where I can't take that many more upper-division biology courses. I'm now opting for a hard science graduate-level program to give me access to a greater selection and more difficult courses. Furthermore, I don't want a program just because it will look good on my apps, but because I want the confidence to kick ass in med school. Another reason I'm going for the graduate enrichment postbac over the undergrad enrichment postbac is that I want to have something to show for my years post-graduation and I want something to be proud of. I realize I could try to take two years of undergrad courses in math, chemistry, physics, and humanities to get a pretty solid GPA, but I feel that's just "playing the game." I want my years spent to be something that not only helps me get where I want to go, but that will be true accomplishments that will better my future as a physician.

Originally, I intended to try and shoot for Rosalind Franklin's MS in Applied Physiology program this Fall (in hopes of starting at a US allo med school ASAP). Then one day, I looked at myself and thought, "You know what Phil? You don't deserve to get accepted to med school." I've met premeds who have lived through suicidal depression, who have lost family members when they were needed most, who come from single-parent famililes in poverty, who live in the ghettos, who were kicked out of their homes by their parents for mistakes, who have been abused... And I've asked myself what obstacles I've faced. When there's people like these who have real obstacles that are working as hard as they can to realize their dreams and fall short or have trouble for various reasons (e.g. having to work full-time while enrolled as full-time students), I don't see how it's fair to them if I got into med school (foreign or through a "backdoor" program) just because I have the resources ( $ ) necessary. It's not fair to them if I get in without putting in any real effort.

I've now decided to put in the effort to work toward the creation of "a new me" (cheesy, I know) as well as an applicant profile that I can be proud of. I'm still pretty young and I've realized it's okay to spend the time I need to get what I want in life.

I'm considering two options at this point. My first choice would be to get a one-year hard science masters as well as an MPH before I apply. My second choice would be to do a 1.5-2 year hard science masters (Biomedical Sciences, Physiology and Biophysics, or Cellular and Integrative Physiology) at medical schools that would be among my top choices. But like I said, I'd prefer the one-year hard science masters and one-year MPH (or 1.5 year at my state school for a more reasonable price) before applying to med school. Since I want to get both before I apply, I could really do this in either order. But for personal reasons, I'd prefer to do the hard science masters then the MPH.

Wow, that was long. Sorry!

Phil

 

[Quentin Quinn]

Hmmm, and here I always thought you were kind of an older nontrad due to your always-sage advice! I think this post just underscores a wonderfully mature and well-balanced approach to this process. You will make a fine physician in the not-so-distant future, and your contributions and advice here are invaluable. I have doubted myself quite a bit recently as I am about to embark on this postbacc journey, and this was a nice inspirational post.

Awww! You'll be sorry you asked!

Well, my story is really pretty boring. I went into undergrad as a brainwashed premed (physician parentS + ethnic background + culture I grew up in). I received a pretty generous scholarship ($9k/year at a well known private university) for my solid high school gpa and standardized test scores. But when I actually entered college, two things really hurt me: (1) I wasn't studying as much as I should have and (2) all of my motivations were just plain wrong or a result of brainwashing. The crappy motivation had a direct effect on my science grades too. My non-science record is impressive (almost 4.0), but my science record...let's just say it needs some work. I intended to take this year off after graduating to regroup. I then realized that (1) my science record could use some help and (2) I can't think of a single science professor that could write me a solid letter of recommendation. The summer immediately following graduation I got a job with the Biostatistics Department of my local hospital. The department was studying the efficiency and communication of different parts of the Emergency Department. This made me more interested in medicine than the run-of-the-mill talking to patients and clerical work of hospital volunteering. At the end of the summer, in late August, I haphazardly enrolled at a little-known private liberal arts college (known by top med schools for a strong premed program) to take upper-division bio courses. My postbac GPA (all science) is probably a 3.8+ now and I'm hoping to get it up more. I received the highest grade in my Human Physiology class last term (60+ students), I'm tutoring students in the section of Human Physiology this term, I'm doing some physiology research (unfortunately all I could get was dry lab stuff) and submitted an abstract of the research to a state academy of science (which was accepted), and I'll be the lab assistant for Comparative Physiology next term (which is funny because I never took the course). Obviously I've got an interest in physiology, but I'm also taking (or took) other courses like Immunology, Neuroanatomy (awesome!), Microbiology, etc. which are going (or went) pretty well. The problem is that I'm reaching a point where I can't take that many more upper-division biology courses. I'm now opting for a hard science graduate-level program to give me access to a greater selection and more difficult courses. Furthermore, I don't want a program just because it will look good on my apps, but because I want the confidence to kick ass in med school. Another reason I'm going for the graduate enrichment postbac over the undergrad enrichment postbac is that I want to have something to show for my years post-graduation and I want something to be proud of. I realize I could try to take two years of undergrad courses in math, chemistry, physics, and humanities to get a pretty solid GPA, but I feel that's just "playing the game." I want my years spent to be something that not only helps me get where I want to go, but that will be true accomplishments that will better my future as a physician.

Originally, I intended to try and shoot for Rosalind Franklin's MS in Applied Physiology program this Fall (in hopes of starting at a US allo med school ASAP). Then one day, I looked at myself and thought, "You know what Phil? You don't deserve to get accepted to med school." I've met premeds who have lived through suicidal depression, who have lost family members when they were needed most, who come from single-parent famililes in poverty, who live in the ghettos, who were kicked out of their homes by their parents for mistakes, who have been abused... And I've asked myself what obstacles I've faced. When there's people like these who have real obstacles that are working as hard as they can to realize their dreams and fall short or have trouble for various reasons (e.g. having to work full-time while enrolled as full-time students), I don't see how it's fair to them if I got into med school (foreign or through a "backdoor" program) just because I have the resources ( $ ) necessary. It's not fair to them if I get in without putting in any real effort.

I've now decided to put in the effort to work toward the creation of "a new me" (cheesy, I know) as well as an applicant profile that I can be proud of. I'm still pretty young and I've realized it's okay to spend the time I need to get what I want in life.

I'm considering two options at this point. My first choice would be to get a one-year hard science masters as well as an MPH before I apply. My second choice would be to do a 1.5-2 year hard science masters (Biomedical Sciences, Physiology and Biophysics, or Cellular and Integrative Physiology) at medical schools that would be among my top choices. But like I said, I'd prefer the one-year hard science masters and one-year MPH (or 1.5 year at my state school for a more reasonable price) before applying to med school. Since I want to get both before I apply, I could really do this in either order. But for personal reasons, I'd prefer to do the hard science masters then the MPH.

Wow, that was long. Sorry!

Phil

 

[neuronerd]

Op-

First of all, go bears! Second of all, you are my application twin but I applied June 2004 and I'm waiting for answers this application cycle. PM me if you want and I can tell you my stats, which schools rejected me, what I did during the year off and what my backup plans are and where I've gotten interviews and what I would do over if I could.
I don't know if you are a Cali res but if you are, crap. It's hard with those stats. Also, my GPA is slightly higher than yours so this might give you an idea. Good luck.

 

[DrHuang]

i gots a 3.45 BCPM and overall GPA from UCLA and a 30P MCAT...doing the SMP Right now...so far i have an interview to U. of Vermont but i def. recommend georgetown SMP because schools really do recognize it...lots of them wait for ur fall grades to come out...anyways, here are some people in the program and how theyre doing so far

3.1 GPA/31 MCAT/URM: accepted USC, interviewed at U. of Washington
3.6/34 MCAT: accepted Wake Forest, interviewed at Chapel Hill (dunno why he did SMP), interview at NY Med
3.0 GPA/33 MCAT: accepted Militiary med school (UHSH or something), interview at Drexel, St. Louis, NY Med
3.7 GPA/28 or 29 MCAT: interviewed at University of California, Irvine
3.0 GPA/31MCAT: interview at Drexel

 

[exmike]

There was a guy the year before me with a 2.8/31 who ended up at GU med.

SMP helps marginal applicants the most, if you have stats on the high end of the SMP ladder, the SMP might not be that helpful imho. I got in all my schools before SMP grades were released. I do credit the SMP with making my first year of med school a breeze so far though!

 

[exmike]

i gots a 3.45 BCPM and overall GPA from UCLA and a 30P MCAT...doing the SMP Right now...so far i have an interview to U. of Vermont but i def. recommend georgetown SMP because schools really do recognize it...lots of them wait for ur fall grades to come out...anyways, here are some people in the program and how theyre doing so far

3.1 GPA/31 MCAT/URM: accepted USC, interviewed at U. of Washington
3.6/34 MCAT: accepted Wake Forest, interviewed at Chapel Hill (dunno why he did SMP), interview at NY Med
3.0 GPA/33 MCAT: accepted Militiary med school (UHSH or something), interview at Drexel, St. Louis, NY Med
3.7 GPA/28 or 29 MCAT: interviewed at University of California, Irvine
3.0 GPA/31MCAT: interview at Drexel

hehe i like your quote btw. good luck in the SMP.

 

[DrHuang]

hehe i like your quote btw. good luck in the SMP.

hah thanks...btw, do u know victor wong? hes from JH too, friend of mine here at SMP

 

[exmike]

hah thanks...btw, do u know victor wong? hes from JH too, friend of mine here at SMP

victor and i are really good friends. There is noone i would want more to see get in med school than him.

 

[DrHuang]

victor and i are really good friends. There is noone i would want more to see get in med school than him.

yeah, he got an interview to st louis and all of us here are rootin for him

 

[dca_55]

I think I'm in a similar position as others in this thread and was looking for information about Georgetown or other SMP programs. I'm two years out from undergrad and planning on applying for med school for fall 2006. I believe I have pretty decent stats 3.62gpa/35mcat, but I recieved 2 bad grades in science courses (I did retake and recieved A's, but at a different 4-year college that might be considered less rigorous than my undergrad school) and a couple W's. Also, my gpa is inflated more by college level work I did before/after undergrad. I do have some extraneous circumstances during the first half of my undergraduate career, which explains the bad marks. My EC's are probably average, I wasn't premed as an undergrad so I've only been doing health-related EC activities for the past 1.5 years. I know many people with lower gpa/mcats get in, but probably have better EC's and a record with less "bumps".

My original gameplan was apply, continue working (I have a research assistant job in a lab), and continue getting more clinical exposure to medicine. My worry is that I won't get accepted because of the bad marks, and will end up having to wait two years to reapply. On the other hand, if I do an smp this fall and do well, improve my chances because I'm addressing the questionable marks. So I guess I'm wondering if the georgetown smp has many students in similar positions, or have most of the students already applied once in the past? Also, is there time to do things outside the classroom, such as volunteering/shadowing, or do you pretty much have to devote 100% of your time to academics? I'm trying to make a decision soon because I know many of the smp programs have rolling admissions, so any advice/info from smp students would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[exmike]

you don't need the SMP. Just do research and apply. The SMP wont really give your application much added value. If you REALLY have nothing to do next year and have 40k to blow on tuition and expenses, then i would go ahead. It really prepared me for MS1.

 

[DrHuang]

So I guess I'm wondering if the georgetown smp has many students in similar positions, or have most of the students already applied once in the past?

I would say most applied in the past but not all of them...your MCAT score would probably be one of the highest in the program and your GPA will also be up there...lots of people in the program have 'bumps' in their transcripts.


Also, is there time to do things outside the classroom, such as volunteering/shadowing, or do you pretty much have to devote 100% of your time to academics?

Most people devote 100% of their time to the program but I think that u could do one extracurricular thing


You should have applied to med school this year and SMP as a backup...your stats are really good imo.

any more questions just let me know...gl

 

[dca_55]

Do any of the georgetown smp student's NOT apply to med school the year they are in the program? I'm just wondering how it really works out, in terms of advising/letters of support. Interviews are already being handed out at many schools when you are just starting the smp. If you need to enhance your record, how will a med school see any progress when youve only just begun the smp? I want to do the smp program to boost my undergrad record, but if I apply now, I have to get a health committe letter from my undergrad institution that knows nothing about georgetown smp. If you wanted to wait until the year after you finish smp, can you still get letters of support from georgetown or do I have to still go through my undergrad institution? Or does the advising from georgetown stop once you graduate from the smp?

 

[sunnyjohn]

you don't need the SMP. Just do research and apply. The SMP wont really give your application much added value. If you REALLY have nothing to do next year and have 40k to blow on tuition and expenses, then i would go ahead. It really prepared me for MS1.

Well, I have some cash, but I don't have 40k to blow. I tried to "convince" Daddy and Mummy to help out and they about had an MI, "That much and your not even in YET???" So maybe I'll just stick with a state school for awhile... I really do need to clean up the GPA.... But, If I clean things ( straight A's), will GU really make me stand out?

How much easier did that SMP make that first year? Like "10 hours a week less study time" easier or "I know what the do-daa is going on in lecture" easier?

Agape...

 

[exmike]

How much easier did that SMP make that first year? Like "10 hours a week less study time" easier or "I know what the do-daa is going on in lecture" easier?

Agape...

I dont think a 4.0 at the GU SMP will really make much of a difference for you since you have decent stats already.

Ill be honest, i dont really study all that much and I'm doing fine. GU prepared me really well and has made the transition to med school relatively painless. I have a lot more free time for research and general bumming around. i love it.

 

[premed]

I dont think a 4.0 at the GU SMP will really make much of a difference for you since you have decent stats already.

Ill be honest, i dont really study all that much and I'm doing fine. GU prepared me really well and has made the transition to med school relatively painless. I have a lot more free time for research and general bumming around. i love it.

Exmike has become quite a legend here at GT SMP. I've heard he doesn't study and aces all his exams. He can also fly, has X-ray vision and is said to be made of steel...

As for the SMP, I definitely think it is a helpful program. However, it is intended more for some...especially those with low GPAs and higher MCAT scores such as myself. Last year I applied to 38 schools without any interviews (yes, I'm from SoCal). This year I've been accepted to USUHS, and have interviews lined up for NY Med and Drexel...just got back from an SLU interview. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

To the OP: If you want to do the SMP in hopes of getting into a better school than Drexel, NY Med, etc... I don't think the SMP will help too much. It is highly recognized by some schools but most of the higher ranked schools could care less to wait for transcripts from any school/program you are enrolled in. I think Gintien had some great advice. You should apply to medical schools and concurrently apply to the SMP as a back up. If you get into any school, I would recommend that you attend. If not, the SMP will give you the edge to get in the next year. Good luck!

 

[DrHuang]

Exmike has become quite a legend here at GT SMP. I've heard he doesn't study and aces all his exams. He can also fly, has X-ray vision and is said to be made of steel...

As for the SMP, I definitely think it is a helpful program. However, it is intended more for some...especially those with low GPAs and higher MCAT scores such as myself. Last year I applied to 38 schools without any interviews (yes, I'm from SoCal). This year I've been accepted to USUHS, and have interviews lined up for NY Med and Drexel...just got back from an SLU interview. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

To the OP: If you want to do the SMP in hopes of getting into a better school than Drexel, NY Med, etc... I don't think the SMP will help too much. It is highly recognized by some schools but most of the higher ranked schools could care less to wait for transcripts from any school/program you are enrolled in. I think Gintien had some great advice. You should apply to medical schools and concurrently apply to the SMP as a back up. If you get into any school, I would recommend that you attend. If not, the SMP will give you the edge to get in the next year. Good luck!

 

[PAPPAPPAP]

This is a boring question, but does anyone know if the gtown smp accepts on-line letters of rec from pre-med committees? I've emailed the program and ive left a phone message but they arent replying. I want to get my letters in asap and the fastest way is definitely online.

Also, is a 3.3 science, 3.3 overall and a 31 MCAT pretty competitive this year or should I be applying to a few programs?

Also, do you know how the Drexel IMS program stacks up to the Gtown SMP?

Thanks for your help.

 

[dynx]

Just to repost old advice. If you're in the SMP and really want to go to a Cali school consider leaving the SMP off your apps. Other schools will know about it because you will send them letters and grades so it won't hurt you there, and the Cali schools will file you into a "wait and see" pile if they know you are enrolled that essentially screws you over. Not the best route for everyone but consider it if you think you have a shot at getting into California.

Im talking about UC's here only btw.

 

[imrep1972]

This is a boring question, but does anyone know if the gtown smp accepts on-line letters of rec from pre-med committees? I've emailed the program and ive left a phone message but they arent replying. I want to get my letters in asap and the fastest way is definitely online.

Also, is a 3.3 science, 3.3 overall and a 31 MCAT pretty competitive this year or should I be applying to a few programs?

Also, do you know how the Drexel IMS program stacks up to the Gtown SMP?

Thanks for your help.

If you are having trouble contacting G-town, try their yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/physios/ Dr. Adams checks that daily and responds quickly to questions.

As far as Drexel v. Gtown, I am not qualified to answer (I know precious little about Drexel, personally) but I believe there are several threads that either compare them directly or speak of their strengths and weakness individually. With a little searching, you should be able to find them, and that would probably be your best bet to get a good answer to your last question.