Getting an Anesthesia residency

[RUcereus]

Attendings, Residents, Fellows, please dont kill me.

Im a first year DO student and have always wanted to do anesthesia. Now that I am in medical school I have completed two block classes (I know really early to ask) and have done above average in my classes but Im sitting with an 84-85 cumulative for both of my classes. Is this considered low for anesthesia residencies? Do cell science and MSS really matter all that much? I studied hard and learned the material, my only concern is i dont have "A's", and sadly my school advisors has an M.S. and not much else. SO, I wanted to get your perspectives.

Also, I was reading on some random site that the average step 1 is like a 225? Is this correct?

Sorry for my ignorance.

Also I am only wanting to apply to ACGME certified resid.

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[Jeff05]

residencies will not look at your grades in specific classes. however, your class rank/standing will be considered. at this time most competitive anesthesia residencies do not consider DO applicants. if your pre-clinical grades are average i would shoot for stellar board scores - minimally 230 on step I, great letters, experience, research.

having said this, i believe anesthesia compensation will slip considerably in the next several years, leading to a major drop in competitiveness of the field, opening doors for DO, IMG, and FMG candidates (mid-90s).

 

[fakin' the funk]

The gameplan I would advise is:

Bust your ass in years 1 & 2 so you nail Step 1. This is key to opening doors that might otherwise be shut to DO's. To me, "nail" is anything above 240.

Get honors in, at minimum, IM and surgery clerkships.

Get good letters from your local anesthesia PD or chair from your "home" rotation (YMMV)

I would strongly recommend doing an away audition rotation in your 4th year, especially if you are interested in big academic programs, which tend to be not DO-friendly unless they know you (e.g. if you rocked an away rotation there)

+/- research

Yes, ballpark average Step 1 for anesthesia applicants is 225.

 

[RUcereus]

The gameplan I would advise is:

Bust your ass in years 1 & 2 so you nail Step 1. This is key to opening doors that might otherwise be shut to DO's. To me, "nail" is anything above 240.

Get honors in, at minimum, IM and surgery clerkships.

Get good letters from your local anesthesia PD or chair from your "home" rotation (YMMV)

I would strongly recommend doing an away audition rotation in your 4th year, especially if you are interested in big academic programs, which tend to be not DO-friendly unless they know you (e.g. if you rocked an away rotation there)

+/- research

Yes, ballpark average Step 1 for anesthesia applicants is 225.

Ok sorry for the gap in reply Neuro started and that is taking some time. Im planning on doing audition rotations I would like to either stay in texas or colorado.

Also a 240 seems insane, thats like what people match into ortho with. Is this really how big the slant is against DO's? If 240 is really what it will take then should I start studying for the test this summer? For those of you that scored a 240+ how did you manage med school and board prep? Also if all you did was drink heavily through med school not study for the boards but some how managed to bust some insane score and be top 10% congrats but i am not a flippin genius, Im smart, not a god so save your time and dont reply.

225 Is pretty avg from what I have gathered and seems to be about were the 3rd years at my school are hitting (though I heard one guy hit a 270 )


Also what would be a good area to do some research, Neuro/Pharm, Internal med, Surg? Any recommendations?

Thanks for the repliess.

 

[bigdan]

Funk's plan seems legit.

The score of 240 is kinda high - you're right about that - but the bias against DO applicants is real, and I do think you're behind the eightball just because of that. There are simply places that will not rank (or even interview) DOs, so you are greatly benefitted by being a rockstar.

225 is in my opinion a good score, and an obtainable one. Regardless, the number that is quoted as "anesthesia average" on these boards is most likely the average of MATCHED applicants (I encourage you to verify that, as I have not). So you can still match with a 215, but realize that others are getting 235, etc. Whatever. The higher the score, the better off you are...programs set minimum score standards for interviews that are often well known, but I've yet to hear of a score ceiling.

Other things to consider, from my n=1 experience, and from rumor and innuendo on the application trail:
- clinical grades count for a lot. Get whatever the "best" is: Honors, A, etc. Like most things, this is easier said than done. Ask about how to do this at your school; it involves reading, working hard, knowing your patients, and being a "people person" (this is broadly defined, from being collegial to being a brown-nosed ass kisser)
- do other things than study, which is both good for you and your application. If you volunteer/run an interest group/are class president/do research/continue a hobby/read non-textbooks, you may be more stable as a human being, and your application will show it. You want to be able to answer the question "So what did you do besides study?" when it's posed to you in an interview.
- research is great if you can do it, with the gold standard of getting a peer-reviewed publication or presenting a poster/abstract at a conference. To answer your question directly, I would recommend doing anesthesiology research. Any is better than none, and getting good grades/Step scores is better than having sh*tty ones with research. If your school doesn't have an anesthesia department, or one that does research, I would talk to the critical care guys or whoever does pain, but find something that YOU are interested in. Consider doing a FAER project somewhere. This kills two birds with one stone, since it's an early "audition rotation" (sorta) and it gets you research. Lots of people think it's a BFD on the interview circuit.
- lastly, keep your mind open. I love my choice, but be aware that the shaded medical student perspective does not reveal the entirety of what anesthesiology residency is like. The anesthesiology ABCs (Airway, Bathroom break, Coffee) that we got to see on the two week anesthesia rotation, or while shadowing one day, does not represent "a day in the life". And you want to do the thing you enjoy most. Keep your mind open, ask questions of residents and attendings, and see what makes you tick. I think anesthesiology is still a "sexy" choice for applicants, but you're early in the game...

Best of luck!

dc

 

[geogil]

Ok sorry for the gap in reply Neuro started and that is taking some time. Im planning on doing audition rotations I would like to either stay in texas or colorado.

Also a 240 seems insane, thats like what people match into ortho with. Is this really how big the slant is against DO's? If 240 is really what it will take then should I start studying for the test this summer? For those of you that scored a 240+ how did you manage med school and board prep? Also if all you did was drink heavily through med school not study for the boards but some how managed to bust some insane score and be top 10% congrats but i am not a flippin genius, Im smart, not a god so save your time and dont reply.

225 Is pretty avg from what I have gathered and seems to be about were the 3rd years at my school are hitting (though I heard one guy hit a 270 )


Also what would be a good area to do some research, Neuro/Pharm, Internal med, Surg? Any recommendations?

Thanks for the repliess.

re: boards. If you want to score well, start studying well before you finish MS2. I'm not talking 8 hours a day, but put in 1 hour a day for 3 months and it will pay big dividends when you finally have some time off for the boards. As a DO, it's my understanding that you should probably take USMLE as well as COMLEX. If you really want specifics on board prep, PM me.

 

[RUcereus]

Funk's plan seems legit.

The score of 240 is kinda high - you're right about that - but the bias against DO applicants is real, and I do think you're behind the eightball just because of that. There are simply places that will not rank (or even interview) DOs, so you are greatly benefitted by being a rockstar.

225 is in my opinion a good score, and an obtainable one. Regardless, the number that is quoted as "anesthesia average" on these boards is most likely the average of MATCHED applicants (I encourage you to verify that, as I have not). So you can still match with a 215, but realize that others are getting 235, etc. Whatever. The higher the score, the better off you are...programs set minimum score standards for interviews that are often well known, but I've yet to hear of a score ceiling.

Other things to consider, from my n=1 experience, and from rumor and innuendo on the application trail:
- clinical grades count for a lot. Get whatever the "best" is: Honors, A, etc. Like most things, this is easier said than done. Ask about how to do this at your school; it involves reading, working hard, knowing your patients, and being a "people person" (this is broadly defined, from being collegial to being a brown-nosed ass kisser)
- do other things than study, which is both good for you and your application. If you volunteer/run an interest group/are class president/do research/continue a hobby/read non-textbooks, you may be more stable as a human being, and your application will show it. You want to be able to answer the question "So what did you do besides study?" when it's posed to you in an interview.
- research is great if you can do it, with the gold standard of getting a peer-reviewed publication or presenting a poster/abstract at a conference. To answer your question directly, I would recommend doing anesthesiology research. Any is better than none, and getting good grades/Step scores is better than having sh*tty ones with research. If your school doesn't have an anesthesia department, or one that does research, I would talk to the critical care guys or whoever does pain, but find something that YOU are interested in. Consider doing a FAER project somewhere. This kills two birds with one stone, since it's an early "audition rotation" (sorta) and it gets you research. Lots of people think it's a BFD on the interview circuit.
- lastly, keep your mind open. I love my choice, but be aware that the shaded medical student perspective does not reveal the entirety of what anesthesiology residency is like. The anesthesiology ABCs (Airway, Bathroom break, Coffee) that we got to see on the two week anesthesia rotation, or while shadowing one day, does not represent "a day in the life". And you want to do the thing you enjoy most. Keep your mind open, ask questions of residents and attendings, and see what makes you tick. I think anesthesiology is still a "sexy" choice for applicants, but you're early in the game...

Best of luck!

dc

Thanks! I honestly had no idea there was that kind of slant good to know ahead of time though. Just a couple of questions, what is BFD? I have a few volunteer experiences and am currently using First Aid to supplement my systems courses. is this a good idea? it's only the 2007 edition (text books prices raped me this year). I will be shooting for a 240.

Geogil:

I have to take the COMLEX to be licensed but I WILL take the USMLE as i would prefer ACGME accredited training.

I am assuming all of you are MD's, are there any DO anesthesiologists that could throw in their experience of going through the application process and things you wish you knew before you started.

Thanks all for the replies,

Geogil I PMed you

 

[SukaNeNauka]

I am 4th year DO student currently going through the match. I did take USMLE step 1 and did well on it. I also did research in Anesthesia at a very reputable MD place. I would say that I am getting many more interviews compared to my friends who only took COMLEX. I am not sure how much research is helping me as far as getting interviews, but it does give me something to talk about during my interviews, and makes me a unique applicant in some ways. I strongly recommend taking USMLE step 1, and actually according to feedback from some program directors, I would also consider taking USMLE step 2 before the match, I think it will seal the deal with certain programs. Another realization is that no matter how high you score on USMLEs or how much research you will have, there are certain programs that are pretty resistant to interviewing DO candidates. I am very sure if I was an MD candidate with my current scores, research, and multiple anesthesia publications and presentations, I would be a top candidate at the most elite MD places around the country. But I am not.

 

[okayplayer]

I am 4th year DO student currently going through the match. I did take USMLE step 1 and did well on it. I also did research in Anesthesia at a very reputable MD place. I would say that I am getting many more interviews compared to my friends who only took COMLEX. I am not sure how much research is helping me as far as getting interviews, but it does give me something to talk about during my interviews, and makes me a unique applicant in some ways. I strongly recommend taking USMLE step 1, and actually according to feedback from some program directors, I would also consider taking USMLE step 2 before the match, I think it will seal the deal with certain programs. Another realization is that no matter how high you score on USMLEs or how much research you will have, there are certain programs that are pretty resistant to interviewing DO candidates. I am very sure if I was an MD candidate with my current scores, research, and multiple anesthesia publications and presentations, I would be a top candidate at the most elite MD places around the country. But I am not.

As another fourth year DO currently going through this, I would agree with this, but I have frankly been thrilled with the interviews I have received so far. I did pretty well on my Step 2 (270), but not nearly that well on my Step 1.

A sampling of my interviews so far (and it's still October): University of Chicago, University of Washington, University of Utah, Pitt (holla bigdan!), Wake Forest, Dartmouth, Virginia Mason, etc. Not Harvard, but way beyond my expectations.

I'm not trying to brag, I just want to let my DO brethren know that if you can bust out a decent board score there are tons of good programs that will be interested in you.

On the other hand, if your board scores are not great, it's going to be tough. I have some good friends that are sitting at 1-2 interviews right now while I have >30 invites.

Good luck man.

 

[SukaNeNauka]

That is a solid work on step 2. And you have gotten good interviews. The unfortunate part of being a DO is that you will never match into UCSF, Duke, Stanford, Columbia, and even to a lesser elite programs like Emory, Mt Sinai (well maybe), Northwestern. Isn't that some truth?

 

[RussianJoo]

As another fourth year DO currently going through this, I would agree with this, but I have frankly been thrilled with the interviews I have received so far. I did pretty well on my Step 2 (270), but not nearly that well on my Step 1.

A sampling of my interviews so far (and it's still October): University of Chicago, University of Washington, University of Utah, Pitt (holla bigdan!), Wake Forest, Dartmouth, Virginia Mason, etc. Not Harvard, but way beyond my expectations.

I'm not trying to brag, I just want to let my DO brethren know that if you can bust out a decent board score there are tons of good programs that will be interested in you.

On the other hand, if your board scores are not great, it's going to be tough. I have some good friends that are sitting at 1-2 interviews right now while I have >30 invites.

Good luck man.

dude 270 on step2 is more than just "pretty well" that's amazing. Thta's like the 97th percentile. not too many people get that score and even less that apply to anesthesia.

 

[wmc24]

im a 4th year DO student applying to gas this year. just to give u an idea of my profile, i have decent comlex scores as well as a 232 usmle. i have a mix of honors and pass (no high pass at my school) and good letters and evals. i applied to 52 programs and have received 5 interviews so far. im not a nervous person but im starting to freak out a little. hopefully the next 2 weeks bring some invited bc otherwise im reaaaaaaallly gonna be worried.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

im a 4th year DO student applying to gas this year. just to give u an idea of my profile, i have decent comlex scores as well as a 232 usmle. i have a mix of honors and pass (no high pass at my school) and good letters and evals. i applied to 52 programs and have received 5 interviews so far. im not a nervous person but im starting to freak out a little. hopefully the next 2 weeks bring some invited bc otherwise im reaaaaaaallly gonna be worried.

Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea what percent of invites have been handed out. Unless gas has gotten much more competitive than all the usual hype I would say that maybe you set your sights too high. Of course this is in the absence of any other information. Just seems like you should have more interviews (provided that interview season is sufficiently underway).

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I have to take the COMLEX to be licensed but I WILL take the USMLE as i would prefer ACGME accredited training.

Small point of order: COMLEX series is not necessary for licesure in all cases (mostly states with a single allopathic medical board). I never took COMLEX 3.

You situation has been covered ad nauseum multiple times. Concentrate on doing as well as you can the first two years. TAKE USMLE I. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool. Do as well as you can third and fourth years. get good letters. Rotate a couple of places you might like. Good luck.

 

[wmc24]

Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea what percent of invites have been handed out. Unless gas has gotten much more competitive than all the usual hype I would say that maybe you set your sights too high. Of course this is in the absence of any other information. Just seems like you should have more interviews (provided that interview season is sufficiently underway).

i def know my limits. i applied broadly and not to many programs i believe would be a reach. i took chances at hopkins, univ of chicago, and north carolina, but for the most part i tried to be as realistic as possible. for example, im in nyc, but didnt apply to mt sinai, columbia, cornell. NYU was the only upper tier nyc program i applied to. i applied in philly, but didnt include upenn. like i said, very realistic. hopefully things turn around for me

 

[bigdan]

A sampling of my interviews so far (and it's still October): University of Chicago, University of Washington, University of Utah, Pitt (holla bigdan!), Wake Forest, Dartmouth, Virginia Mason, etc. Not Harvard, but way beyond my expectations.

NICE! Don't worry about Harvard, man. This is a great selection of programs - one clearly outshines the others however...

Congrats. Maybe my post before was too gloom-and-doom; there are obviously a bunch of great programs that can see beyond the alphabet soup, and it looks like those programs might like you!

When are you interviewing at UPMC?

dc

 

[Arch Guillotti]

i def know my limits. i applied broadly and not to many programs i believe would be a reach. i took chances at hopkins, univ of chicago, and north carolina, but for the most part i tried to be as realistic as possible. for example, im in nyc, but didnt apply to mt sinai, columbia, cornell. NYU was the only upper tier nyc program i applied to. i applied in philly, but didnt include upenn. like i said, very realistic. hopefully things turn around for me

that sounds reasonable.

I was nervous as a ***** in church when I applied in 2003 because I was a DO, had a 200 on Step I and had no guidance whatsoever from my school. So I shotgunned about 70 apps. I ended up with enough interviews that I had to cancel some. I got some interviews at places that shocked the hell out of me, Penn and Hopkins mostly. rememeber it just takes one to match.

 

[RUcereus]

Doctors and Medical students,

Thanks so much for your replies, I think I have a better grasp on things now. I have started formulating my application for th FAER program and will be sending it out this week. I have started outlining everything I am learning in class and if its listed in FA I am double tapping it. I am also pushing really hard (thats what she said) in all of my classes to make the best grades possible. Any other advice is welcome and thank you to the ones who replied, I appreciate it.

Take care yall, good luck with the interviews as well.