Getting in without any clinical experience

[WashMe]

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sorry to shift topics, but people seem to actually be frequenting this thread. how about... getting into medical school without any "leadership" experience? Is it possible, assuming that the applicant's other points are strong?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

sorry to shift topics, but people seem to actually be frequenting this thread. how about... getting into medical school without any "leadership" experience? Is it possible, assuming that the applicant's other points are strong?

Or what counts as leadership experience, and how recent it must be to count. I'd imagine that would be less critical to most schools than clinical, but that's a total guess. 🙂

More in line with the thread topic, I do have a moderate amount of experience shadowing, but my volunteering since I moved after undergrad has been at Red Cross Donor Services. I am wondering if that counts as clinical volunteering, regular volunteering, leadership, or what? Technically there are "patients" there - some people come to give their own blood for a later surgery. Most people, however, come to donate blood/platelets/plasma for others. But there are no doctors around. The person in charge is a nurse and there are a dozen or so phlebotomists. The unskilled volunteers, such as myself, do either registration, escort, or canteen duty. I normally do escort, where I assist in organizing people ready to go to a donation bed, make sure the time they go to the bed is recorded, get them blankets/pillows/hand warmers, and assist if they have an adverse reaction (mostly by propping their feet up and bringing a damp cloth).

 

[scarletgirl777]

sorry to shift topics, but people seem to actually be frequenting this thread. how about... getting into medical school without any "leadership" experience? Is it possible, assuming that the applicant's other points are strong?

I think leadership is something that the schools with the most competitive applicant pools stress more.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Or what counts as leadership experience, and how recent it must be to count. I'd imagine that would be less critical to most schools than clinical, but that's a total guess. 🙂

More in line with the thread topic, I do have a moderate amount of experience shadowing, but my volunteering since I moved after undergrad has been at Red Cross Donor Services. I am wondering if that counts as clinical volunteering, regular volunteering, leadership, or what? Technically there are "patients" there - some people come to give their own blood for a later surgery. Most people, however, come to donate blood/platelets/plasma for others. But there are no doctors around. The person in charge is a nurse and there are a dozen or so phlebotomists. The unskilled volunteers, such as myself, do either registration, escort, or canteen duty. I normally do escort, where I assist in organizing people ready to go to a donation bed, make sure the time they go to the bed is recorded, get them blankets/pillows/hand warmers, and assist if they have an adverse reaction (mostly by propping their feet up and bringing a damp cloth).

I would guess that because you already have the shadowing, you are fine. You have interacted with real sick people through shadowing, and in your AMCAS description I would just mention that both sick and healthy people come to your clinic. Also, people with adverse reactions kind of are "sick." I think it's close enough. It's not "blood and guts" but I didn't really have blood and guts in my non-shadowing experience either and that did not make it less legitimate (I think). Was your shadowing in a hospital or was it outpatient primary care?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I would guess that because you already have the shadowing, you are fine. You have interacted with real sick people through shadowing, and in your AMCAS description I would just mention that both sick and healthy people come to your clinic. Also, people with adverse reactions kind of are "sick." I think it's close enough. It's not "blood and guts" but I didn't really have blood and guts in my non-shadowing experience either and that did not make it less legitimate (I think). Was your shadowing in a hospital or was it outpatient primary care?

I have six distinct shadowing experiences over many years. The first might be too long ago to count (2001). It was in an oncology department at a hospital as part of a multi-highschool class on healthcare several hours a week over the course of a term. It was where they did radiation therapy. Then there was the shadowing for a class preceptorship three years ago through my university. That was cardiology, i.e. things like stress tests and imaging, but not surgery. Then two years ago I shadowed a DO in private, solitary, family practice. Last summer I shadowed the overworked retina specialist my mother works for. Was supposed to observe a surgery but he had a family emergency that day. Currently I am shadowing a family MD in group practice. Edit: The 6th one was over a longer period of time at a clinic for low-income persons, sporadic shadowing of different doctors.

Yeah so none of it was "blood and guts" medicine, but my father's a veterinarian and I spent summers working at his clinic... So I think I can make the case that blood, guts, and even parvo puppy excrement doesn't bother me. I'm just hoping I can improve my ap further. Any specific additional last-minute shadowing I should shoot for? I plan to apply June 1 in the next cycle.

 

[Lauren87]

I barely had any clinical experience and I got accepted, but I made the most out of my few experiences. My most enjoyable clinical experience was volunteering at a free health clinic for people without insurance, so I would look into to that if I were you. At one time I did try to shadow a doctor but finding a willing one was timely and frustrating and I just gave up (not exactly a smart move). But I would try shadowing your own doctor, if possible, as they are the most likely to say yes.

To the other question, idk if getting into medical school without leadership experience is hard, but I can say that you can never even imagine what a leader has to go through-it's something you have to experience. Being the first and last one there, having all the pressure to complete a project fall on your shoulders, feeling like the only one that cares...it's a good experience to have. If you can't get a leadership experience, at least take a position in a club or organization to shower deeper commitment.

one last thing, I don't think working blood drives is clinical experience. 🙂 I am actually the American Red Cross president at my school...so I work ALL the blood drives lol..but it's not really clinical, as said there are no doctors around!

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I barely had any clinical experience and I got accepted, but I made the most out of my few experiences. My most enjoyable clinical experience was volunteering at a free health clinic for people without insurance, so I would look into to that if I were you. At one time I did try to shadow a doctor but finding a willing one was timely and frustrating and I just gave up (not exactly a smart move). But I would try shadowing your own doctor, if possible, as they are the most likely to say yes.

To the other question, idk if getting into medical school without leadership experience is hard, but I can say that you can never even imagine what a leader has to go through-it's something you have to experience. Being the first and last one there, having all the pressure to complete a project fall on your shoulders, feeling like the only one that cares...it's a good experience to have. If you can't get a leadership experience, at least take a position in a club or organization to shower deeper commitment.

one last thing, I don't think working blood drives is clinical experience. 🙂 I am actually the American Red Cross president at my school...so I work ALL the blood drives lol..but it's not really clinical, as said there are no doctors around!

Yeah it seems ambiguous enough that if they asked about "clinical experiences" in an interview I should probably stick to the shadowing. It's still worthwhile though.

That reminds me. I currently am a caregiver for a for-profit corporation whose main focus is providing care to people who cannot take care of themselves but wish to stay in their homes. The average assignment is a lot like being a CNA, but outside of facilities. A majority of the caregivers are CNAs and I am paid to take online courses designed for CNAs, though I don't have time to get an actual CNA. It's a lot of catheter care, insulin injections, blood sugar testing, medication reminders, along with simply conversing with them and making them a meal. Again, there are no doctors around. A nurse has to come and certify your competence for things like insulin injections. Is that not clinical? Or is it non-clinical but more applicable to medicine than working at a fast food place? 🙂

I also have an atypical assignment with them, perhaps partly because I'm male, where I supervise subsidized housing late at night where all of the residents have mild, theoretically controlled, mental conditions. Our main goal is to save the county money by minimizing their utilizaiton of EMS, but they have their own private apartments so they have to actually choose to go to us first. We counsel them and try to get them to be as independent as possible. We document everything that happens, and we are required to cite them for blatant rules violations, which generally undermines our ability to get them to open up to us. We do accompany them to emergency room visits, which are more frequent than you might think (somebody does it at least once a week, I do it more like once a month), but we see more of annoyed paramedics and cops than doctors.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I have six distinct shadowing experiences over many years. The first might be too long ago to count (2001). It was in an oncology department at a hospital as part of a multi-highschool class on healthcare several hours a week over the course of a term. It was where they did radiation therapy. Then there was the shadowing for a class preceptorship three years ago through my university. That was cardiology, i.e. things like stress tests and imaging, but not surgery. Then two years ago I shadowed a DO in private, solitary, family practice. Last summer I shadowed the overworked retina specialist my mother works for. Was supposed to observe a surgery but he had a family emergency that day. Currently I am shadowing a family MD in group practice. Edit: The 6th one was over a longer period of time at a clinic for low-income persons, sporadic shadowing of different doctors.

Yeah so none of it was "blood and guts" medicine, but my father's a veterinarian and I spent summers working at his clinic... So I think I can make the case that blood, guts, and even parvo puppy excrement doesn't bother me. I'm just hoping I can improve my ap further. Any specific additional last-minute shadowing I should shoot for? I plan to apply June 1 in the next cycle.

You've already shadowed more specialties than the average successful applicant. I think time is better spent doing a more long-term clinical experience, like actually volunteering/working in that clinic for low-income people.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

You've already shadowed more specialties than the average successful applicant. I think time is better spent doing a more long-term clinical experience, like actually volunteering/working in that clinic for low-income people.

Yeah that clinic was in the city I did my undergrad, where I moved from, but one would think there's one like it here. I'll have to look around.