Getting into Pediatric Surgery

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Scrubbed In

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Anybody know what it takes exactly to get into a pediatric surgery fellowship. I've been told that 2 years of research is a must, and that the specialty is uber-competitive. Beyond that I'd like to hear more, especially the importance of training in general surgery at a place with a pedi surg fellowship. Thanks.
 
To do Peds Surg you do not need to do residency at a program with a fellowship. Be sure that you have a good Peds experience, and that the faculty have connections to help you get into fellowships. Ask the PD how many residents have matched into Peds Surg and where in the last five years when you interview at programs. Be suspicous of places that only send people into Peds at one place.

As for research, everyone that matched into peds surg for the last few years has done research of some kind. A new opportunity is the pediatric critical care fellowship available to surgical residents, but this is usually reserved for a holding pattern for people not able to match straight into peds.

I hope this helps.
 
Sorry to bring up a 2-year-old thread, but I was wondering how to find out whether or not a Gen Surg residency program has a solid Pediatric component to it. FRIEDA listings? ACGME website?

Also, is it true about Pediatric Surgery being the "last truly general surgical" career out there?
 
Sorry to bring up a 2-year-old thread, but I was wondering how to find out whether or not a Gen Surg residency program has a solid Pediatric component to it. FRIEDA listings? ACGME website?

Those two resources will tell you nothing about the rotations.

All general surgical programs are required to expose you to pediatric surgery and you have X number of required cases to log. Hospitals without a Children's Hospital or access to it locally are required to send you elsewhere for the cases if they cannot provide it.

This will not be listed on FREIDA or ACGME which have no information on these types of things.

Thus, program websites which may list whether or not the hospital has a Pediatric Surgery department, Children's Hospital, how many weeks, etc. and word of mouth are the best sources.

As to whether or not it is a "solid" experience, that is highly variable and again, you will not find that anywhere except by word of mouth.

Also, is it true about Pediatric Surgery being the "last truly general surgical" career out there?

Probably, although there are general surgeons who do do real general surgery as well.
 
Re: Competitive Fellowships (e.g. surg onc or peds)

Agree with what has been said to look at the alumni of a program and see where they have gone. However, some places will list fellowships gained by their residents without stating they did a post-graduate research fellowship (because they decided late or didn't match the first time). These are not marked with a *.

A possilbe distant substitute for "word of mouth," and a quick and dirty "pre-interview" way to find a solid program in any specialty look at the program's website for graduate chiefs operative experience. They will usually list the last years graduating chief experience by ACGME subtyptes (endo, operative trauma, non-op trauma, vasc, panc, peds, etc). Look for bigger rather than smaller volumes as compared to the ACGME minimum (usually listed as the first row of numbers). ACGME requires 20 pediatric cases. Disclaimer, residents count cases differently (if they scrub, if they dictate, or only if they do the case vs. watch the attending do the case).

Another "pre-interview" way to see about an specialty experience is look at the program's website to see their 5-year plan. Some places you will do specialties such as peds only in your 4th year (R4), or only your 2nd year (R2), and some will have you rotate as a junior resident (R1 and/or R2) and senior resident (R4).

Last, an advantage about going to a program with a fellowship, esp. a university program, they will have easy access to research opportunities which are usually funded. If you have to look for a research opportunity, though it is not hard, it takes time.
 
Sorry to bring up a 2-year-old thread, but I was wondering how to find out whether or not a Gen Surg residency program has a solid Pediatric component to it. FRIEDA listings? ACGME website?
How do you define "solid?" Do you mean a place that can help grease the wheels for your pediatric surgery fellowship, a place that will allow you to perform a lot of pediatric surgery cases as a resident or a place that has pediatric surgery research? While the first and third may be found at the same location, they are often not found at the same program as the second. Any place that has a fellow will cut into your operative experience as a resident, but those are the places where you'll find the faculty are in the best position to "help" you get your fellowship.
At most institutions, the pediatric surgery division is the red-headed stepchild of the department in that they often find themselves short on residents. As a result, more pediatric surgery fellowships are popping up, creating more fellows and diluting the resident operative experience.

If you want a fellowship, one could make the argument that you should go to a place with a fellowship, as they tend to have a stronger research presence and are more successful in placing their residents (whether or not this is a self-fulfilling prophecy or not remains to be seen). However, go knowing your pediatric operative experience as a resident will not be as broad or deep as it would be if you went to a program that does not have a fellowship.
 
The best way to get into a fellowship in pediatric surgery?-- have someone who is a pediatric surgeon vouch for you and make phone calls. this will by far make up for any lacking you have in research, skills, etc.. they fill these spots by word of mouth first, and then select the open leftover spots by board scores, research etc. it is ALL who you know and who likes you.


as far as resident experience in peds surgery- as a general surgeon trainee- it is a waste of time to do a ton of complex peds cases and do nicu consults for nissens and lines. better of fudging your minimal requirements on little hernias etc. no general surgery resident is going to get to do a big ticket peds case like pena or kasai when you are a pgy4, esp when even the pgy7 fellow is holding hook watching.

I doubt any modern general surgeon even in rural areas does more than peds appy, lines/g tubes and pyloromyotomy.
 
as far as resident experience in peds surgery- as a general surgeon trainee- it is a waste of time to do a ton of complex peds cases and do nicu consults for nissens and lines. better of fudging your minimal requirements on little hernias etc. no general surgery resident is going to get to do a big ticket peds case like pena or kasai when you are a pgy4, esp when even the pgy7 fellow is holding hook watching.

Have to disagree here... as a general surgery resident I did a couple of kasai's, several malros, small bowel atresias, diaphragmatic hernias, lap nissens, coloanal pullthrough for hirschsprung, and even some thoracotomies. We do not have a fellowship and our experience is quite good. I did most of every case, and learned a heck of a lot about anatomy and technique during my time on the ped service.

I doubt any modern general surgeon even in rural areas does more than peds appy, lines/g tubes and pyloromyotomy.

Probably true. You can add i&d of abscess to that list, and I've even seen the occasional referral to our peds service for recurrent inguinal hernia.

To address the OP's original question, imho ped surgery is an exclusive little club. Not only do your academic and research credentials need to be strong, but you absolutely need the support of other pediatric surgeons. Without the blessing(s) of other pediatric surgeons, and the oft-referred to telephone calls, your application could be otherwise flawless and you will probably not match. There is a distinct personality of pediatric surgeons (which I do not have) that is selected for, and I could tell that certain residents are deemed to have the necessary "stuff" and others are not, regardless of their other qualifications.
 
Why is peds surgery considered "the last great surgical career"?
 
Why is peds surgery considered "the last great surgical career"?

I think it's often said that Pediatric Surgeons are the last true General Surgeons, as they pretty much do it all... Except for "pediatric" Vascular Surgery apparently. 🙂
 
what is the timeline for general surgeon to apply to peds surgeeyr fellowship january of the fourth year of general surgery?
 
Top