How would you feel if you were admitted to opto school and then were kicked out due to poor academic performance? How many students across the country get removed from od programs ? Any applicants have an idea?
Yep... pretty darn crappy! I'm not sure what would feel worse... being kicked out for being a little slow...or having nothing but a pile of debt to show for my efforts!
10% seems very high. In my experience at Indiana, the school bent over backwards to get people to graduate. About 2-3 people/year had to repeat a year, but even then they graduated in five years. I can't imagine the school wants you out. They want your tuition money. And their is attrition for other reasons in any given class, so there is usually empty space in a class that the school would like filled. Things might be different at the "weed-out schools", but certainly not at IU.
10% does seem a bit high. my guess is around 5% if that. it is true that most optom schools are private schools and they do want your tuition. if a lot of people get kicked out, this is no good for them either. they will have a lot of empty seats and would have lost a lot of money too. on the most part, i think schools will do as best they can to help all students pass and graduate. this is, of course, assuming the students put in his or her best effort.
I bet you are right, but I sincerely hope you are not. When schools put their financial interests above that of our patients, it is a sad day for our profession.
Hi ucbsowarrior, At my interview at NECO, I asked this question directly to the Director admissions during Q and A. The way I phased the question was: out of the students that received acceptance to NECO how many actually graduate He first went on a tangent about something (it was unrelated to my question) but finally at the end he responded, out of the 110 students we typically accept, ON AVGERAGE 3 or 4 dont graduate. Now for students across the country, I have NO CLUE Hope that helps
At UAB we lose about 2 the first year and 2 the second year. We start out with about 42 at the beginning of the first year. The policy here is, you can only fail one class a quarter (yes, we are on the quarter system not the semester system). If you fail 2 in one quarter, youre out. If you fail 2 classes with in the year you have to repeat the year, which very rarely happens. On a side note they just changed the grading scale to where a D is failing. They are pretty good about keeping up with who is struggling and really try to help them as much as possible. How does our grading policy compare to the other schools?
First Quarter first year the big one is Biochem. I think like 3 to 5 people might have failed, but I dont know. There is absolutely NO curve in that class and he fails people each year. I heard he has failed 2 people with a 69.3. First Quarter second year I heard a lot about Micro and Path (which are taken with the dental students) and Second years are starting hours in the clinic, so that also takes up time. -- I'm only a first year so I cant tell you first hand. I think what makes it so hard is that the fall quarters of the first and second year have a HUGE class load. I've heard that the curriculum committee is looking into changing the first quarter. At the moment we are taking 6 classes (16 semester hours) in 10 weeks. Its a lot!
Just to let you in on a secret, that number is not accurate. The school keeps stats that they have to report to the gov't. Tell them to give you those stats. The person that interviewed you prob. doesn't even know the exact numbers or the facts. He/she just didn't want to sound like a clown in front of you....but as I said, if you are not at the bottom of the class you have nothing to worry about. Many of the statements that I make are based on factualized data that can be found by almost anyone of you....if you look hard enough. They are not uninformed opinions, but info that can be quantified. all the best in the quest to find which schools are the weedout schools
thanks for opening our eyes to these secrets! greatly appreciated! could you be so kind as to provide this "factualized data"? a link will do just fine!
At SCO the second year is the year that people usually struggle with but last year we lost one student (out of 125) and we have just lost one after the first quarter of second year. You probably want to keep in mind that when he said "3 or 4 don't graduate" that he meant they are completely gone from the school and didn't get to start again.
you mention you had a cousin or friend that goes to neco right? simply have him/her dig up an old roster from his first year and compare it with the current roster. this will will see how many are still there. that will be the best way to figure out if only 3 or 4 are "weeded out" or if massive amounts of ppl are gone
okay, i asked my cousin about this. he says 3 people have either dropped out or kicked out of NECO since the first year. he is now in his third year, so the stats seem to be correct.
You are almost correct here. If they are doing poorly academically it probably is in their best interest to not be in optometry school for a while because it either means they don't have the drive or passion for it or that they are not capable of handling the grueling curriculum. No one wants students graduated that are either inept or not passionate, in any profession.
At PCO, I was told by a second-year student that approximately 10 students of the class of 2008 (out of 150-160 or so) are repeating first year with my class of 2009, about 6%. However, this includes some special circumstances as well as purely academic reasons: one student returned after deciding to pull out of the program during the spring semester to help his wife with their new twins! Bottom line: Beware of statistics, as they can fool you. Always check for possible biases! (Can you tell I have an Evidence-Based Medicine exam in 1.5 hours?) As for grading at PCO, a C is considered a pass (70%) in most modules/courses. A=90%+, B=80-89%.
I actually know where to get this information as it is filed with the gov't, however I won't deliver you any of this information till you are in your second to third year. That way you can experience some of the things I've been trying to counsel you on. The suffering of your classmates, the injustice of the school system (in some cases) and those that are being kicked out and held back. Most students left in the system really never know why people are removed from the programs. You need to see it with your own eyes to believe it. It's like the Iraq war....Bush is there for oil and nothing else. He's not there for humanitary reasons. That's just a good storyline....just as many of you may form subconcious storylines about your own lives and own schools. Look in the mirror and look ahead to see what challenges there are. It's always been nice talking...
but i thought the governement only has the false info given by neco where only one or two drop out! and if you believe that bush is only there for oil..... everyone knows he is there cuz good ole saddam try to take out his dad! revenge ! texas style
come on...get real! george wasn't going to spend a couple of hundred billion to get revenge for his dad. if he just wanted to kill saddam, it would be a lot easier than sending a whole army over...he'll just get the cia or some covert or fund some resistance group to wipe him out. it's all about the oil and for those that can't figure that out....you'll never really understand world politics or politics in general. iran would've been their next potential target, but i don't think that's going to happen. iran has strengthened their ties with china. the usa won't disrupt the oil supply to china. there's to much risk and the usa knows this. this is one of the main/secondary reasons iran deals with china. the low price that i pay for gas is attibuted to the war efforts brought on by the republicans. are we having fun yet?
I would suggest getting back to the topic as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. You are from Canada, right?
I've been offline ~ but I'm back! I've studied global politics prior to enrolling in optometry school ~ I'm aware of the directives of US Foreign Policy. You should read some literature to familarize yourself with what is going on in the world we live in. US Media is typically biased, just like media from other countries. CNN is the aljazeera of America. I'm American and am just tired of the Government lying to the world, the soldiers and Americans. Read more from Noam Chomsky and you will better understand the realities of the world. http://www.chomsky.info/ ucbsowarrior
please take any political discussions to the Sociopolitical (formerly the Everyone) forum. The OD forum is not the place for this.
hmmm... I always suspected there was a conspiracy behind 1-800-contacts! Where have you been? Swamped with work I hope. There is nothing sadder than a bored Optometrist in an empty office.
they're both really bad. i think that's enough incentive to keep any opt student, besides pride, to do well in opt school.
Depends...you got the cash-no way you're kicked out! No cash-hit the street. Seriously, I would imagine very few are asked to leave, very few, and my guess is money plays into the equation.
I don't know about other schools, but at SUNY, very, very few students are asked to leave. In any given first year class (of about 74 students). maybe 2- 3 students drop,... one or two for personal reasons, which are not always related to grades; and one or two either drop for grades or are asked to repeat a year. This is not even a five percent drop rate. Every effort is made to inform the student of sub-standard academic performance before it gets out of hand. The scenario does not usually repeat itself in second or third year. Usually everybody stays. I have never known a school like SUNY to make a decision on dropping a student or asking them to repeat a year based on money. It actually costs the university much more money to educate a student then the actual tuition paid by the student. The actual tuition paid by a student or two is inconsequential to the overall budget of the college.
My school is most certainly not a weed-out school. They will do anything to remediate or put you on a 5-year program to try to help you through. However, here's how it went with my class: Started w/ 42... Lost one after 1st semester 1st year - she didn't show up much, so it could have been academics or drive, probably a combination. No one really knows the story. Lost two after end of 1st year: one for a combination of academics and family issues. The other started over at another school b/c her fiance got a job in a different city. Lost one just this semester (3rd year) due to academics and clinical competency. For part of this year, this person was going to be on a 5-year program but that didn't so much work out. I probably shouldn't go into details. Another one is probably on a 5 year program now to retake one class. So that makes 3 gone due to academics and 1 in the class below. We did however gain two...one transferred from another school and the other had already taken some classes as part of the PhD program.
I think most schools are more concerned with their reputation than a student's tuition money. The cost of an incompetent graduate (or 4th year extern for that matter) can be much more costly than losing the tuition $$$. And a bad reputation (as far as putting out qualified docs) probably results in more empty seats than being known for giving a few students the boot.
yeah, i agree! i think the ones who are still scared of seeing patients while nearing the end of 4th year are usually booted from the school.
