I will be getting out of the Army June 2010. I completed a categorical PGY1 Surgery internship 2007-2008 and Step 3 was passed. I would like to get back into the general surgery world on the civilian side. Does anyone have suggestions on how to obtain a PGY2 spot given this situation?
Getting out of the Army and PGY2
- Thread starter cavaor
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No great ideas. Pretty much the same as others looking for a spot at PGY2. Good prior in-service is helpful. Good letters and phone calls. You may have to suck it up and start PGY1.
That being said, you should be aware of some of the environment. I knew a former resident that had just a little army experience. Every little thing he did was nit-picked and presumed to be the result of him being "military". You could breakdown the issues and ask someone that knew nothing about prior military and they would not call it being military.... but, nonetheless the prejudice that surrounds military background is real.
Finally, if you were military resident, folks will ask why you didn't complete training in military....
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You may want to ask this question in the Military Medicine forum; I think a few people on there have some experience with continuing their training in the civilian world after completing their military obligations and may be able to provide some more insight.
With all respect and not to offend, I think you are in a rough spot. I base my opinion on the little I know of military medicine.
Depending on what you did for 2008-2009? Additionally what will you be doing for academic 2009-2010, which starts in 4 weeks.
Your options:
1) Start over in the Match and then,
2) Scramble in the Match for a spot
3) Landing a PGY2 spot in July 2010, 2 years out from surgical internship, is unlikely.
Expect to scramble for a prelim spot. Remember, terminating a categorical spot regardless of miliatry or civi is going to need a very good reason if and when you interview. You're essentially asking a program to invest five years of finite resources on a chance. Another program took that chance and lost 1 year in. Also, in a competitive future resident pool the applicants right out of the gate don't have that black mark on the record. You have an uphill battle. If you truly want it, be willing to earn another chance with prelim years and watch a lot of the movie, Rudy.
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A little more back story would be helpful.
Were you required to leave your PGY-1 position to do a GMO tour? Was it a military internship? Or did you leave on your own accord versus the program asking you to leave? The answers make a huge difference in your chances.
As others have noted, I think you'll have to restart all over with a surgical internship. By the time you are ready to start, it will be 2 years out from medicine. Unless you have been doing surgical training elsewhere, many programs won't want to take a chance on you. I've seen this happen to other GMOs who have interrupted their surgical training.
Were you required to leave your PGY-1 position to do a GMO tour? Was it a military internship? Or did you leave on your own accord versus the program asking you to leave? The answers make a huge difference in your chances.
As others have noted, I think you'll have to restart all over with a surgical internship. By the time you are ready to start, it will be 2 years out from medicine. Unless you have been doing surgical training elsewhere, many programs won't want to take a chance on you. I've seen this happen to other GMOs who have interrupted their surgical training.
I appreciate the responses..and no offense taken.
Back story:
I was required to do a GMO tour (Flight Surgery) after completion of PGY1. 3/6 interns in my program were in the same position. I was not asked to leave. The positions just weren't available when "the needs of the Army" are a priority. Yes, this was a military internship. I am now running an aviation clinic serving 4200 soldiers and have been since completion of flight surgeon course.
Back story:
I was required to do a GMO tour (Flight Surgery) after completion of PGY1. 3/6 interns in my program were in the same position. I was not asked to leave. The positions just weren't available when "the needs of the Army" are a priority. Yes, this was a military internship. I am now running an aviation clinic serving 4200 soldiers and have been since completion of flight surgeon course.
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That makes things easier then - leaving at the "request" of the government and continuing in a medical, if not surgical, practice.
I still believe you will most likely have to repeat PGY-1 in the civilian sector but you would be eligible to apply for any PGY-2 openings (which are few and far between and highly coveted).
You need to register on findaresident, check the apds.org web site and let every surgery PD/faculty member you know that you are looking for a PGY-2 position. Most of these are found word of mouth; often programs send out letters to other programs when they have an opening.
As an Independent Candidate you are also eligible to sign a contract outside of the match. You obviously have to be flexible but there's a chance someone quits, even half-way through their internship, and you could snap it up. Doing half a year Internship is better than a whole one. I don't believe there is any ABS reason why you have to repeat PGY-1, just a program reason.
I still believe you will most likely have to repeat PGY-1 in the civilian sector but you would be eligible to apply for any PGY-2 openings (which are few and far between and highly coveted).
You need to register on findaresident, check the apds.org web site and let every surgery PD/faculty member you know that you are looking for a PGY-2 position. Most of these are found word of mouth; often programs send out letters to other programs when they have an opening.
As an Independent Candidate you are also eligible to sign a contract outside of the match. You obviously have to be flexible but there's a chance someone quits, even half-way through their internship, and you could snap it up. Doing half a year Internship is better than a whole one. I don't believe there is any ABS reason why you have to repeat PGY-1, just a program reason.
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WS's general suggestions are good. I'd cold call programs that interest you as well.
I think your chances at a PGY2 slot are much better than average in that your paper trail sounds pristine. You aren't an IMG, you didn't have to do a prelim, you aren't trying to switch programs, etc.
I think your chances at a PGY2 slot are much better than average in that your paper trail sounds pristine. You aren't an IMG, you didn't have to do a prelim, you aren't trying to switch programs, etc.
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As a future military physician, I am curious to hear you elaborate on this. What is the reason? What does the "prejudice" look like?
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You have to remember, numerous folks in surgical residency try to reference a "military" like structure... though most have no true military experience to base that claim. I have asked military folks, and they see very little "military structure". Rather, they see military comparison being called on in some way to justify the hazing/abuse type conduct.... that they relate to TV/Movie representations of bootcamps/etc... However, my understanding of reality is that bootcamp is a few months out of a potential 1-2 DECADE career.
The long and short of it, folks will preconceive ideas about you based on their understand of or ignorance of their interpretation of your background experience.... It's like folks presuming anyone going into surgery must have a personality disorder.... Or, all cardiac surgeons are inhuman robots, etc....
For specifics, I would encourage you to speak to military folks and see if they can tell you what their experiences were. I have been told there are real preconceived ideas .....
JAD
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Interesting perspective JAD.
I had assumed, when you mentioned the "military prejudice" that you were referring to the oft-held idea, at least in my camps, that military physicians are not the cream of the crop.
Like prison physicians, it was always my impression (formed as a military brat and then hearing the same from others) that no one who was "really good" would work for less salary and put up with all the military BS (and the crappy nurses and allied staff ) in most VA hospitals even with the good benefits and hours.
Its not that the above is necessarily true, but is what I assumed you meant
I had assumed, when you mentioned the "military prejudice" that you were referring to the oft-held idea, at least in my camps, that military physicians are not the cream of the crop.
Like prison physicians, it was always my impression (formed as a military brat and then hearing the same from others) that no one who was "really good" would work for less salary and put up with all the military BS (and the crappy nurses and allied staff ) in most VA hospitals even with the good benefits and hours.
Its not that the above is necessarily true, but is what I assumed you meant
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I'd think you will likely have to reapply for a pgy-1 year to secure a position
