Getting physical in the OR

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amiwill

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Is it normal for people to get physical in the OR?
The residents are not the nicest at my site, but they are overworked so I don't take it personally when they are rude to medical students. I try to help them out, but usually they just want me out of their way haha.

The only time I was angry about what a resident was doing was when I was elbowed meta world peace style (google meta world peace and james harden to find out what I'm referring to) when I was trying to do something. Nothing critical was occurring. The attending saw it and was exttttra nice to me following that event and said what I was doing was ok. The nurse asked if I was ok, but I tried to laugh it off but yeah it hurt. I kept my mouth shut after that and I no longer say a word in the OR. I don't even make eye contact with that resident. Even though I no longer speak, the resident continues to berate me following that and I'm getting so close to just losing it on him; however, unlike him, I know how to conduct myself.

The attending asked me if I am enjoying my surgery rotation and I said "Yes it's great!", while in my head I was thinking "I enjoy surgery as much as I would enjoy being run over by a car."

Now I'm running into a problem because I loathe waking up at 4 am just to go to the morning rounds. Before, I had no problem waking up and looked forward to my day, but I literally get sick to my stomach thinking about what the day entails. When I present, I am nervous when that resident is there. I have no clue how to shake it off and get the hell over it.

Surgery has been absolutely horrible.

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Everyone deals with the mental abuse in surgery, or at least most do. There's a few surgeons on this board that, had I worked with, I might have ended up in surgery. This is quite rare, in my experience.

The physical abuse, however, is inexcusable (not that the mental is okay, we all just deal with it). I would report this incident to your course director, and make a note of it in your evaluations. There should also be a school student mistreatment policy somewhere in your student handbook. Since this is causing you so much distress, I would fill out the incident report, and even include the nurse and attending's names for reference. This kind of behavior is not okay.
 
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Physical abuse is *never* 0k and I agree with tco that it needs to be reported.

It sounds as if you are suffering PTSD from the incident and I don't blame you. If possible, you should ask to be placed on a different service or rotation, away from that resident.

We had a resident who was well known to be unpleasant (truth be told, I'm confident she had a personality disorder); basically everyone put up with her until the day she shoved a medical student who didn't take it. That student stood up for his rights, reported her, the other residents corroborated his story and she was put on probation and made to attend anger management classes. I'm not sure that it did any good for her verbally abuse manner, but at least she stopped the physical abuse. Sadly, she's currently Asst Director of Medical Student Clerkship at a community based affiliate of a "Top Ten" Surgery program. I hope she's changed.

The resident who mistreated you has probably done this before and has never been challenged. Its time to stop it.
 
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Sadly, she's currently Asst Director of Medical Student Clerkship at a community based affiliate of a "Top Ten" Surgery program.

It seems like at a number of places, "clerkship director" or "asst clerkship director" is a position that is passed around like a hot potato until it lands with someone who can't afford to say no. Which is unfortunate for the students.
 
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This resident is absolutely brilliant. The attendings love him and he does more procedures than the other residents, which I think is part of the reason he is so stressed out. He acts as if it never happened. I feel like I would be seen as a complainer if I do say something especially since I am the only medical student at the site.

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine at my school. He was slapped by an ob/gyn resident. She was immediately reprimanded, but the difference is that she was not liked by the attending. The attending even said during my ob/gyn orientation that she was happy that resident was gone.

Nothing happened to this particular resident, at least not in front of me. He was nicer to me for a day (and by nice I mean he ignored me, which is nice for him), but then he went back to his normal self. I have heard about other students getting pushed around if they are in the way in the OR. So I was just thinking it was a common happening and I need to prepare myself for what is to come in the OR :( since I just started.

I was thinking about going into surgery, but now I am over it. I literally cross out the days I have left in surgery rotation on a calendar.
 
I understand your concern. It's common for medical students that experience behavior of this nature to feel that they'll be labeled as complainers, and for them to feel that nothing will happen, so "why try?" Finally, students feel that there could be retaliation against them for reporting residents and attendings.

The ACGME takes these issues very seriously, as should your school's administration. You should definitely report the incident as soon as possible. As I said, there should be instructions in your student handbook for reporting the incident, and it should be anonymous.
 
I really appreciate the advice winged scapula and tco. Thank you. I just received the schedule for tomorrow and I am assigned with this resident again. Ugh. I will definitely report this and take it more seriously because it is affecting me negatively. A friend of mine said I would be crazy if I didn't say anything haha. In the meantime, I am going to ask my attending to put me with another resident tomorrow.
 
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I really appreciate the advice winged scapula and tco. Thank you. I just received the schedule for tomorrow and I am assigned with this resident again. Ugh. I am going to ask my attending to put me with another resident in the meantime. I will definitely report this and take it more seriously because it is affecting me negatively. A friend of mine said I would be crazy if I didn't say anything haha.

stand up for your rights.
 
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This resident is absolutely brilliant. The attendings love him and he does more procedures than the other residents, which I think is part of the reason he is so stressed out. He acts as if it never happened. I feel like I would be seen as a complainer if I do say something especially since I am the only medical student at the site.

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine at my school. He was slapped by an ob/gyn resident. She was immediately reprimanded, but the difference is that she was not liked by the attending. The attending even said during my ob/gyn orientation that she was happy that resident was gone.

Nothing happened to this particular resident, at least not in front of me. He was nicer to me for a day (and by nice I mean he ignored me, which is nice for him), but then he went back to his normal self. I have heard about other students getting pushed around if they are in the way in the OR. So I was just thinking it was a common happening and I need to prepare myself for what is to come in the OR :( since I just started.

I was thinking about going into surgery, but now I am over it. I literally cross out the days I have left in surgery rotation on a calendar.
You're making excuses for the resident. It doesn't matter if he's Albert ****ing Einstein and that the faculty like him, physically hurting you is wrong.

It would be a shame if this one individual colored your whole field of surgery; unfortunately that's often the case - I've seen SDN members and staff claim that "all" surgeons are ass holes and that they would never go into the field, despite an interest. You owe it to yourself to allow yourself to have a better experience so that you can make an informed decision about the field.

I do understand the issue with not wanting to be seen as a complainer; if you cannot bring yourself to say something while on service, please do future students a favor and report this after you're done. If he does this to you, he will do it to others. The last thing we need in the field is another dingus who doesn't care or see how poorly he treats others.
 
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tell the resident that his behavior bothered you- if he apologies and offers an olive branch then make nice and let it go, if not then he probably should be reprimanded. If he is well liked by the attending then chances are that he typically gets along well with others and that you have been catching him at bad times. There is the possibility that he is embarrassed about it and that is why he is acting like it never happened.
 
tell the resident that his behavior bothered you- if he apologies and offers an olive branch then make nice and let it go, if not then he probably should be reprimanded. If he is well liked by the attending then chances are that he typically gets along well with others and that you have been catching him at bad times. There is the possibility that he is embarrassed about it and that is why he is acting like it never happened.
Bad time or not, I'm never going to go and physically hurt the medical student. The mental anguish of students is frightening enough to have to worry about physical abuse as well. It's not the student's fault the resident has a piss poor demeanor. I'm a pleasant individual, but I admit I can be pissed off rather easily. That doesn't mean because I'm having a "bad moment" it can be written off if I have a physical altercation with someone whether it be a medical student, nurse, MA, etc. Just because the OP is a student, doesn't mean he has to put up with the **** the specific resident is doing.
 
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Bad time or not, I'm never going to go and physically hurt the medical student. The mental anguish of students is frightening enough to have to worry about physical abuse as well. It's not the student's fault the resident has a piss poor demeanor. I'm a pleasant individual, but I admit I can be pissed off rather easily. That doesn't mean because I'm having a "bad moment" it can be written off if I have a physical altercation with someone whether it be a medical student, nurse, MA, etc. Just because the OP is a student, doesn't mean he has to put up with the **** the specific resident is doing.

I have lived and worked with the rough and tumble types for most of my life so I am probably less offended than most by verbal or physical abuse. I admit that I can empathize with those types of people- generally speaking they don't have bad intentions. That being said, the resident was not acting in a professional manner regardless if the op was in the way/being obnoxious/ trying to help/whatever and should not behave that way again.
 
I don't believe that one person could ruin a field for you, especially since everyone else seems to be pretty nice. The mistake you made was not stepping up the first time. Complaining now won't go over well. Just ignore him until the end of your rotation. If he pulls a similar stunt again, call him out on it right there and say that it's not cool.
 
I don't believe that one person could ruin a field for you, especially since everyone else seems to be pretty nice. The mistake you made was not stepping up the first time. Complaining now won't go over well. Just ignore him until the end of your rotation. If he pulls a similar stunt again, call him out on it right there and say that it's not cool.

You'd think that, but it happens. One bad experience colors all the others and people start seeing things as "glass half full". Its amazing how little information and experience we have and yet are expected to make a lifelong decision for ourselves and how little information students actually acquire/use before making that decision.
 
My sample size is a little larger than n=1, so it came down to me saying, "Do I really want to go into a field where half of my co-workers are total dicks, when there are alternatives available?" As ws said, we're influenced so much by our personal experiences, it's difficult to overcome them.

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You'd think that, but it happens. One bad experience colors all the others and people start seeing things as "glass half full". Its amazing how little information and experience we have and yet are expected to make a lifelong decision for ourselves and how little information students actually acquire/use before making that decision.

I suppose. I'm finishing MS-2 and I plan on entering a surgical field, so I might be uninformed and biased, however, if you're that easily swayed...I dunno.
 
Physical abuse isn't just bad manners, it's assault, a crime people go to jail for.

In your case I'm not saying call the police....but you certainly should make a report with your someone in your schools administration (do you have an ombudsman?) or at least with the clerkship director. There is a lot of pressure for schools to keep students away from these people.
 
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