Getting rejected from med school twice is hard.

[listener23]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires their reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

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[HopefulReapp]

Your entire post is an error.

 

[Stoptheclot]

Hypothesis: It is just as hard to get rejected from med school twice as it is to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires there reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

In theory? Sure! But as a reapplicant, several of the schools gave me generic replies of: "Improve your MCAT! More volunteering! Apply earlier!" Even during official scheduled appointments with admissions reps, I improved on all the criteria that they outlined but I still got rejected from some of these schools, and a few of them even rejected me right out of the gate. Some places, even retaking and improving your MCAT won't matter because they average your scores! It simply is how your application competes against the current pool of applicants. What would have gotten me in last year didn't cut it this year at several of the schools. In certain schools that give feedback, they still have to sift through thousands of applications, some even +10k!, just to pick a couple hundred or less for a matriculating class. I would agree that it should improve your chances, but to say it guarantees you a spot is illogical.

 

[Psai]

I have no idea how your brain works.

 

[knv2u]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice as it is to get accepted the first time you apply.

Assume a candidate with a 2.5 GPA and a 23 MCAT score; his odds of acceptance would be much lower than being rejected twice. The latter approaches close to a 100% chance of rejection.

 

[listener23]

I have no idea how your brain works.

Well I know how your brain works, the post clearly says correct any reasoning errors not make a snarky comment to get likes. This isn't Facebook.

 

[listener23]

Your entire post is an error.

Although med-school admission does have a degree of Arbitrariness. Calling the entire post an error is basically stating "Medical school admission is 100% random, no other factors outside of applying effect chances of admission"

 

[Psai]

Well I know how your brain works, the post clearly says correct any reasoning errors not make a snarky comment to get likes. This isn't Facebook.

lol kid when they changed the format of the forums, I was the biggest opponent of having the like system and the terrible color scheme. I post the way I post and I don't care if people like it or not.

If you've been rejected, there's a reason. Your grades are too low or you're not good at carrying a conversation or you can't articulate why you want to be a doctor. Then not every school will meet with you to talk about your application. Even if they do, they won't give you a solid reason because most of the time there isn't any. Maybe the person looking at your app was in a bad mood that day or maybe it was raining on the day of your interview. There are a ton of intangibles that go into the application system that you can't do anything about which is not the same thing as saying "the entire process is random". There are more qualified applicants than spots and when you play musical chairs, someone's going to lose. If you don't get in, you have no time to fix your app while you're waiting on waitlists. Even if you add more volunteering or research, is there even a threshold for what's acceptable or not? And getting 10+ acceptances is difficult for anyone. For reapplicants, that's a pipe dream.

Basically your entire post made no sense which is pretty much par for the course. If you don't spend any time thinking about what you write before you hit submit, don't expect anyone else to. Then again, you were pretty judgmental about other people's command of the English language, especially for someone who doesn't understand the difference between there and their.

 

[listener23]

@Psai

see post 7

 

[Catalystik]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires there reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

One hidden factor you can't adjust for is when a school gives you negative points, or won't consider you at all, for being a reapplicant. This should be balanced by the schools that give you positive points for being a reapplicant, provided you apply broadly enough to hit some of them by accident, since this criteria is rarely announced on a school's website.

You are also assuming that the person you speak with is correctly telling you what they didn't like about your application. An example of a common omission is that your essays are terrible, or that the quality of the Primary statement doesn't match the Secondary essays. Or that a red flag was raised in an LOR. Or that there wasn't something "catchy" enough about your application to hold their attention (aka make you memorable).

Also, all schools don't provide the needed feedback.

 

[kreme]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice than to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires their reasoning, he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory, his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

1. He applied to only 15 schools (I mean he got rejected from all of them, so 15 probably wasn't enough)
2. He applied to the same 15 schools again?
3. Student X = X amount of time?
4. Good wasn't good enough.

 

[listener23]

One hidden factor you can't adjust for is when a school gives you negative points, or won't consider you at all, for being a reapplicant. This should be balanced by the schools that give you positive points for being a reapplicant, provided you apply broadly enough to hit some of them by accident, since this criteria is rarely announced on a school's website.

You are also assuming that the person you speak with is correctly telling you what they didn't like about your application. An example of a common omission is that your essays are terrible, or that the quality of the Primary statement doesn't match the Secondary essays. Or that a red flag was raised in an LOR. Or that there wasn't something "catchy" enough about your application to hold their attention (aka make you memorable).

Also, all schools don't provide the needed feedback.

Good eye

 

[listener23]

1. He applied to only 15 schools (I mean he got rejected from all of them, so 15 probably wasn't enough)
2. He applied to the same 15 schools again?
3. Student X = X amount of time?
4. Good wasn't good enough.

2. He applied to the same school because he knows exactly how to improve for those specific schools

3. X amount of time is how ever long it takes to make changes

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

work harder and smarter.

 

[Psai]

See, I go out of my way to thoughtfully address the points in your post and your reply is a reference to a poorly thought out post you wrote that wasn't even made in response to my post. I even addressed your post before I read it so it's obvious that you didn't read what I said, not that I expected otherwise. And you're sitting there wondering why I didn't take your post seriously to begin with.

 

[listener23]

See, I go out of my way to thoughtfully address the points in your post and your reply is a reference to a poorly thought out post you wrote that wasn't even made in response to my post. I even addressed your post before I read it so it's obvious that you didn't read what I said, not that I expected otherwise. And you're sitting there wondering why I didn't take your post seriously to begin with.

Bright idea coming: DON'T REPLY THEN.

 

[Reckoner]

lol kid when they changed the format of the forums, I was the biggest opponent of having the like system and the terrible color scheme. I post the way I post and I don't care if people like it or not.

Joined: Jan 2, 2014

 

[Psai]

Bright idea coming: DON'T REPLY THEN.

Quite a low standard for a bright idea but I guess it's to be expected here.

 

[Catalystik]

Please don't derail the thread, folks.

 

[infinitessimal]

Your main reasoning errors are 1) assuming schools will tell him why he was rejected and 2) those reasons being tangible "things" he can fix in a year.

 

[listener23]

Your main reasoning errors are 1) assuming schools will tell him why he was rejected and 2) those reasons being tangible "things" he can fix in a year.

Great points but keep in mind i said X amount of time

 

[LizzyM]

Great points but keep in mind i said X amount of time

Take all the time you need; some things can't be fixed to the point where the applicant rises to the top 20% of all applicants at that school for that year. And that's where you need to be to get admitted (for some med schools it is top 5%). And the bar keeps moving higher. I can recall when a 3.98/33 was considered really really good and now that would have to be a 3.98/36 to get any traction at my school.

 

[knv2u]

Although med-school admission does have a degree of Arbitrariness. Calling the entire post an error is basically stating "Medical school admission is 100% random, no other factors outside of applying effect chances of admission"

No, it's not. Your hypothesis lacks face validity and makes little sense to me. There is such a thing as having an application beyond rehabilitation, and you also discount the bias that reapplicants face.

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Assume a candidate with a 2.5 GPA and a 23 MCAT score; his odds of acceptance would be much lower than being rejected twice. The latter approaches close to a 100% chance of rejection.

In fairness he did put the qualifier that you make your application competitive based on feedback, so it's not the identical app twice.

 

[solitarius]

It would definitely be a cumulative beat down, but quantifying it is hard.

 

[listener23]

In fairness he did put the qualifier that you make your application competitive based on feedback, so it's not the identical app twice.

lol look @AlbinoHawk DO this dude @knv2u hates me so much he didn't even notice he is agreeing with me in both of his statements on this thread

 

[knv2u]

In fairness he did put the qualifier that you make your application competitive based on feedback, so it's not the identical app twice.

Fair enough, but this still presupposes that you can fix an application, which isn't the case for a good number of premeds. Think of a fatally low MCAT score over 2 or more administrations, low GPA beyond repair in a post bacc, a horrible SMP performance, or the like. And even if I would otherwise believe his hypothesis (which I don't), then where does the idea of 10+ acceptances come from? I think it is a huge leap of faith to believe that someone who couldn't make it the first time is going to turn their application around to the point of at least 10 out of 15 applications being successful, especially given that most medical schools have acceptance rates of less than 5%.

Edit: typo.

 

[listener23]

No, it's not. Your hypothesis lacks face validity and makes little sense to me. There is such a thing as having an application beyond rehabilitation, and you also discount the bias that reapplicants face.

dude read you are agreeing with my statements in an attempt to attack me

 

[knv2u]

lol look @AlbinoHawk DO this dude @knv2u hates me so much he didn't even notice he is agreeing with me in both of his statements on this thread

And again, you assume that everyone that disagrees with you or is critical of a position you take hates you. This victim mentality is getting old. You make bold categorical statements without support to back them up and then become infuriated when people disagree with you.

 

[knv2u]

dude read you are agreeing with my statements in an attempt to attack me

Show me how my statements support your hypothesis that the odds of being rejected from medical school twice are less than acceptance the first time.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires there reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

There are some fallacies in your reasoning. First, are you assuming you are a "good match" for each school in the first place? If so, then maybe the reason for your rejection was the interview. Was that true with all the other 2-14 schools? Do all the schools use the same criteria? (Answer: no!) Next: assuming you're told you need more leadership. Does that mean, after a year's time and you added more leadership, you'd get in? Not necessarily. Could it be that you speak to five of the 15 schools and each one tells you something different, (change/add leadership, research, volunteer work, clinical work, shadowing) and you change all that, will you can guarenteed of getting in? Not necessarily because the persons who told you to change this or that are no longer looking at your application. Someone else is and they didn't care for your personal statement.

Around and around you'll go trying to please everyone, guessing what they want, hoping you said what they want to hear. Fact is, you can't. You have to be honest with yourself. Do your best. Shine where you are most comfortable. And pick the schools that are the best fit.

You asked for us to correct your reasoning and I'll be a nuisance and correct something else: your grammar. (Maybe that's what the adcoms didn't like either.) The phrase there reasoning" should be "their reasoning". Also the phrase, acquires their reasoning, isn't used correctly in this sentence. Maybe "adjusts the application as recommended" is a bit more accurate. And finally, add a question mark -- ???? -- at the ending punctuation if it's a question and a period ( . ) at the end of a statement. Now back to the original discussion.

 

[LizzyM]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires there reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

This assumes that the reason for the rejection was not an Institutional Action such as academic dishonesty. There is no bleach to remove that stain.

 

[listener23]

No, it's not. Your hypothesis lacks face validity and makes little sense to me. There is such a thing as having an application beyond rehabilitation, and you also discount the bias that reapplicants face.

You are saying that no Medical school admission is not 100% random, and there are other factors outside of applying that effect chances of admission.

Thats the statement I am saying in order to convince the guy that application can be improve upon. You basically just agreed with my defense and than said my original statement was wrong.

 

[BamaNicole]

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires there reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

I think you're also assuming that the applicant pool is the exact same as the first time the person applied which you can't say with certainty is the case.

 

[listener23]

There are some fallacies in your reasoning. First, are you assuming you are a "good match" for each school in the first place? If so, then maybe the reason for your rejection was the interview. Was that true with all the other 2-14 schools? Do all the schools use the same criteria? (Answer: no!) Next: assuming you're told you need more leadership. Does that mean, after a year's time and you added more leadership, you'd get in? Not necessarily. Could it be that you speak to five of the 15 schools and each one tells you something different, (change/add leadership, research, volunteer work, clinical work, shadowing) and you change all that, will you can guarenteed of getting in? Not necessarily because the persons who told you to change this or that are no longer looking at your application. Someone else is and they didn't care for your personal statement.

Around and around you'll go trying to please everyone, guessing what they want, hoping you said what they want to hear. Fact is, you can't. You have to be honest with yourself. Do your best. Shine where you are most comfortable. And pick the schools that are the best fit.

You asked for us to correct your reasoning and I'll be a nuisance and correct something else: your grammar. (Maybe that's what the adcoms didn't like either.) The phrase there reasoning" should be "their reasoning". Also the phrase, acquires their reasoning, isn't used correctly in this sentence. Maybe "adjusts the application as recommended" is a bit more accurate. And finally, add a question mark -- ???? -- at the ending punctuation if it's a question and a period ( . ) at the end of a statement. Now back to the original discussion.

Ha, I like, except for the mention of time ( time is not considered a factor in this equation). thanks for the grammar completely missed it.

 

[WillburCobb]

 

[Goro]

Some things can't be fixed. Being boring or dispassionate, having a personality disorder or a red flag in the LOR, not matching the school's mission, a change in the school's criteria for acceptance, or insistance that that the med school application process is analogous to mathematical certainty.

Let's just say that people can become more competitive on paper if they fix deficits from the first app cycle. But once you walk into the interview room, it's on you.

Hypothesis: It is harder to get rejected from med school twice then to get accepted the first time you apply.

Theory: If Student X applies to 15 schools and get rejected from all 15 he then can call each school and ask why was he rejected. Once he acquires their reasoning he can then spend X amount of time fixing every thing the schools didn't like about him. In theory his second time around applying he should easily have 10+ acceptances.

Please correct any reasoning errors....

 

[listener23]

Now remember, "don't be a *****"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/help-improve-the-overall-sdn-community.1061124/

 

[WillburCobb]

Now remember, "don't be a *****"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/help-improve-the-overall-sdn-community.1061124/

Only reason I responded. But srsly OP, an intro to logic course could do wonders for you.

Edit: Changed "would" to "could". "Would" is too absolute; especially in this case.

 

[listener23]

.

 

[deleted407021]

I think second grade spelling class would do you wonders. Seriously?

 

[WillburCobb]

I think second grade spelling class would do you wonders. Seriously?

Also, my troll meter is starting to tingle.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Fair enough, but this still presupposes that you can fix an application, which isn't the case for a good number of premeds. Think of a fatally low MCAT score over 2 or more administrations, low GPA beyond repair in a post bacc, a horrible SMP performance, or the like. And even if I would otherwise believe his hypothesis (which I don't), then where does the idea of 10+ acceptances come from? I think it is a huge leap of faith to believe that someone who couldn't make it the first time is going to turn their application around to the point of at least 10 out of 15 applications being successful, especially given that most medical schools have acceptance rates of less than 5%.

Edit: typo.

And I would say that all you wrote is a valid criticism. Not everyone can repair their app. I'm just trying to be fair consistently for both parties.

 

[EMDO2018]

Schools do need to be more transparent in this process though, people get waitlisted and rejected and you they never know why.

 

[LizzyM]

Schools do need to be more transparent in this process though, people get waitlisted and rejected and you they never know why.

Because we didn't have room for 3000 highly qualified applicants. Sometimes I think it would be better if we advertised specific cut points. If you meet the minimum requirements, you get a lottery ticket. (some schools would have higher minimums than others) We have 100 seats, 100 tickets are pulled. On decision day, those who won more than one lottery have to choose and additional tickets are pulled to fill the waitlist. We'd still have 55% of all applicants nationwide going away empty handed. We wouldn't have as good a class and there would be no pressure on applicants to check boxes or jump through hoops and no reward for having expanded one's thinking in those ways, but by golly, it would be transparent.

 

[listener23]

Because we didn't have room for 3000 highly qualified applicants. Sometimes I think it would be better if we advertised specific cut points. If you meet the minimum requirements, you get a lottery ticket. (some schools would have higher minimums than others) We have 100 seats, 100 tickets are pulled. On decision day, those who won more than one lottery have to choose and additional tickets are pulled to fill the waitlist. We'd still have 55% of all applicants nationwide going away empty handed. We wouldn't have as good a class and there would be no pressure on applicants to check boxes or jump through hoops and no reward for having expanded one's thinking in those ways, but by golly, it would be transparent.

....

 

[ninjaman22]

My reaction every time I stumble upon one of OP's threads:

 

[listener23]

My reaction every time I stumble upon one of OP's threads:

And yet you feel the need to involve yourself every time.

This was a unique question and it was to outside the box for you to contribute anything useful.....

 

[ninjaman22]

And yet you feel the need to involve yourself every time

Yeah. Just so I can do this:

 

[metview]

Last time I got baited by this troll. I'll just leave this here.