getting yelled at in lab - should i be alarmed? or is this just how medicine is?

[fish89]

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My PI frequently writes back to me in CAPS LOCK WITH !!!!!!! with subtly derogattory comments such as THIS IS A NEUROSCIENCE MEETING, USE X AND Y TERMS or "THIS IS LIKE SNATCHING DEFEAT FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY" re: my work while cc'ing all the people in my lab. It's kind of scary getting entire paragraphs written in CAPS containing nothing but negative news.

In another email I talked about some business stuff and included a line in the end of the email saying I won a significant award for research. The response was a 4 paragraph email (pretty much an essay) from another lab member berating me for a small detail (I called my poster almost finished, whereas nobody had seen it yet). No congratulations were ever offered, written or verbal.

After staying in lab til past 2am two days in a row, I only got yelled at by yet another lab member for not finishing early enough. Again through email, cc'ing all the lab members. Harsh language included.

It's like constant verbal abuse for the lab's free labor.

At the same time, my PI writes good letters and encourages me to go to conferences and stuff and seems supportive that way.

Still, sometimes I wonder, is this normal? Is this just the medical culture? Am I supposed to get used to this? Or am I crazy?

 

[anfleisch]

Sounds like you are in a better than average situation to me.

 

[rocketman13]

That does sound pretty rough... even one of my 'bad' lab experiences did not sound as bad as yours. With that said, I doubt medicine involves people getting on your back over everything all the time... but then at the same time, I know if you screw up in medicine, the consequences will be a lot more grave. 😛 I'm no expert at lab things, but I'd say like with everything, take it all within context. You're getting good recs, you are experiencing a full research environment by going to conferences, presenting findings, etc, and most importantly, you're (hopefully) finding out if research is for you. I'm sure there will be extreme people like this in medicine (and all professions, really) too, but its nothing to ever take personally.

 

[csmittyB]

My PI frequently writes back to me in CAPS LOCK WITH !!!!!!! with subtly derogattory comments such as THIS IS A NEUROSCIENCE MEETING, USE X AND Y TERMS or "THIS IS LIKE SNATCHING DEFEAT FROM THE JAWS OF VICTORY" re: my work while cc'ing all the people in my lab. It's kind of scary getting entire paragraphs written in CAPS containing nothing but negative news.

In another email I talked about some business stuff and included a line in the end of the email saying I won a significant award for research. The response was a 4 paragraph email (pretty much an essay) from another lab member berating me for a small detail (I called my poster almost finished, whereas nobody had seen it yet). No congratulations were ever offered, written or verbal.

After staying in lab til past 2am two days in a row, I only got yelled at by yet another lab member for not finishing early enough. Again through email, cc'ing all the lab members. Harsh language included.

It's like constant verbal abuse for the lab's free labor.

At the same time, my PI writes good letters and encourages me to go to conferences and stuff and seems supportive that way.

Still, sometimes I wonder, is this normal? Is this just the medical culture? Am I supposed to get used to this? Or am I crazy?

Looks like you picked a lab that doesn't pick your personality type. Stay or find another place better suited to you.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

What would lead you to think that a lab full of jerks outside of medicine correlates well with the entirety of medicine?

Why aren't you worrying about whether or not this will be reflective of all your research experiences instead? At least that is a more sensible connection to make, however flawed answering "yes" would be.

 

[soundnin]

i think it's funny how PI's can get away with so much crap that most normal people in leadership positions would be scared to do. basically, a PI can run a lab however they want, and you just choose if you want to put up with it (for papers if he's a powerhouse), or move on. it's very rare that someone files a formal complaint against a PI. in all my years networking around the boston area, i've only heard of one PI at brown university whose lab reported him to HR.

so to answer your question, it's not the norm, but it's not surprising either. and like one of the people above said, it doesn't seem to suit your style. but if you can put up with it, and he ultimately likes you and will write you a great letter, and you love the research you do there, just stick with it. everyone's been in a bad lab before in their careers at one point probably haha.

 

[getright]

If he writes excellent letters and there is a good chance of getting published, then I would just put up with it lol. But tbh, you can meet an angry boss in whatever field you enter in. I really wouldn't be too discouraged about it.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Hmmm. I wonder if he types his LORs in all caps.

 

[MPHL]

I can't say I have ever been yelled at by anyone part of the group.

 

[deleted307836]

From what you wrote your PI doesn't really sound malicious -- that may just be his style of communication or offering advice. Your fellow lab members sound like absolute jackasses though.

 

[VikingLegacy]

baleeted

 

[BBender716]

Hmmm. I wonder if he types his LORs in all caps.

I ENTHUSIASTICALLY RECOMMEND THIS STUDENT!!!! YOU BETTER ADMIT HIM OR I WILL CC ALL OTHER SCHOOLS AND LET THEM KNOW HOW STUPID YOU ARE FOR NOT ADMITTING HIM!!!!

Sounds about right.

 

[Bartelby]

In my experience this is unusual. Nothing similar has ever happened to me.

 

[soundnin]

In my experience this is unusual. Nothing similar has ever happened to me.

hehe to highlight my own experience, the PI at the lab I worked at after graduating was a very emotional man. he always got really upset when any small experiment didn't turn out as planned. he would troubleshoot exhaustively in a mostly non-productive manner, criticizing our technique (which was never the problem in the end), extending that to questioning our future careers in academic science. then after 2h or so, he will come in the lab, and sit down and apologize for his behavior earlier in a round about way and then say a few nice words. at first, it was quite off-putting, but then we all realized that's just his personality and we never took it personally. we learned to just give the guy a few hours to chill, and then we can move on with the science lol.

 

[circulus vitios]

Re-enact this scene:

[YOUTUBE]wkcoobYUu8g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[fizzgig]

Hmmm. I wonder if he types his LORs in all caps.

LOL


OP you'll find all types in all fields. sorry you got stuck with someone who doesn't have tact or better people skills. i guess it builds character, because yeah im' sure you'll run into people like that in medicine too, but no i don't think it'll be everybody so no worries 🙂

 

[georgearms]

Academic researchers are some of the weirdest people I have ever met.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Your PI sounds like a douchebag. Some douchebags take the form of fist-pumping, hair-gelled, Ed Hardy-wearing meatheads. Others enter academia.

 

[fish89]

thanks everyone for the feedback - i really, really appreciate it.
i do love the research i'm doing, and i am learning a lot, but sometimes all the politics and dealing with people and personalities sucks all the joy from the experience. it helps to keep things in perspective - and it's relieving to know i'm not simply crazy. if i can get through this i'm pretty sure i can get through anything. =)

 

[Potatoman1800]

First, that isn't medicine. It's research. Two totally different cultures and settings.

I would take your PI's criticism and relate it to your current shortcomings in lab to really become the best research asst you can become.

I had a tough PI for a few years but I came out much stronger and informed at the end.

 

[MightyMoose]

Your situation sounds fairly atypical of research. Most of the people in my previous labs have been pretty cool. But without seeing the whole thing in context it's pretty tough to say.

 

[rHinO1]

I think every lab has its own culture. In my lab, everyone is pretty cool. In your lab, sounds like everyone (including your PI) is a d-bag.

You can:

a) Stay in the lab and put up with a bunch of crap while milking the experience for everything it is worth. Posters, conferences, etc... are all good things that not every lab will provide you with.

b) You can find a lab that fits your personality and possibly enjoy your experience more.

 

[IHeartNerds]

My PI bought the lab an XBox 360 and an ice cream machine. I don't think anyone's yelled at anyone in the history of the lab.

It took me a while to learn that science, and medicine, are full of ordinary people -- some are great, some are total d-bags, and most are somewhere between the two.

 

[eablackwell]

I agree with those saying that every lab is different, but I personally would not put up with this type of condescending hissy-fittery (yes, I just made up that word). I've had my share of overlordish bosses, but reply-to-all condescension would be where I drew the line.

I am totally okay if you yell at me because I did something wrong, or even occassionally because you haven't gotten any in a month, but you damn well better not yell at me constantly and for no reason in public and then walk up to each person, point at me and say, "See that? Idiot, right?"

Just my 2 cents. I've worked in a lab over the past 2 summers, and I guess I've just been lucky with my experiences.

 

[UpQuark]

I agree with those saying that every lab is different, but I personally would not put up with this type of condescending hissy-fittery (yes, I just made up that word). I've had my share of overlordish bosses, but reply-to-all condescension would be where I drew the line.

I am totally okay if you yell at me because I did something wrong, or even occassionally because you haven't gotten any in a month, but you damn well better not yell at me constantly and for not reason in public and then walk up to each person, point at me and say, "See that? Idiot, right?"

Just my 2 cents. I've worked in a lab over the past 2 summers, and I guess I've just been lucky with my experiences.

This.

I've been extremely lucky with the PIs and post docs I've worked under. Very encouraging, put me in charge of a huge project, put me on a paper (3rd author) which I did MINIMAL work for compared to the other members (ran PCRs and Gels, etc). Last summer, I got into the SURF program, but my PI lacked funding for my stipend, he felt so bad for telling me he couldn't hire me for the summer and he singlehandedly made sure I had lab to work for the summer (turned out he got me to work with his wife, who is also a PI). Even got invited to their house for a party lol.

Not trying to boast here OP. But if you can see the benefits in staying in the lab then stay. Talk to your PI face to face on ways to improve - this will put you in a better light in his/her eyes. If that doesn't work out, get another lab

 

[45408]

Your PI sounds like a possible douchebag, and the other lab members are huge douchebags.

After two years in a research lab (and a good LOR), my PI never so much as raised his voice (nor did anyone else).

 

[runawayclock]

My old PI used to throw a lab party once in a while at his house - 2 boxes of pizza and 10 cases of beer. He never yelled at me... but then again, I worked at the lab on Christmas Day for my thesis.

OP, is your professor this guy?

 

[Frazier]

^^^ Insanity wolf FTW

 

[Longshanks]

I ENTHUSIASTICALLY RECOMMEND THIS STUDENT!!!! YOU BETTER ADMIT HIM OR I WILL CC ALL OTHER SCHOOLS AND LET THEM KNOW HOW STUPID YOU ARE FOR NOT ADMITTING HIM!!!!

Sounds about right.

I lol'd