giving up too soon?

[katiemaude]

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I'm not sure if I'm having a down day or if I'm finally being realistic. I'm thinking about chucking my plans becoming a physician assistant instead.

First off, I well know the differences between the two careers. I think they both have their benefits and their downsides. The commonality is that I would get to work in a primary care setting and help people get better and/or stay well. I know others have very good reasons to pursue an MD. I don't know if in 10-20 years I would regret giving up now - I figure I might.

Some background: I've wanted a career in medicine since I was a teenager but let myself get derailed in college by a journalism career (my mentors kept saying I had natural talent, and the scholarships and internship offers persuaded me to drop my pre-med studies before they really even began). I had 10+ years as a journalist that, while fun and interesting, never felt right or fulfilling in the way I had hoped. I wasn't challenged intellectually as often as I wanted. I wasn't really "helping people." Eventually, the job ceased to have any meaning to me beyond a paycheck. When I was laid off last year, I practically ran down to the local community college and registered for science classes, not even thinking about what I needed to get into medical school - just that I wanted to take these classes. With hindsight, I would have registered at a 4-year university but you don't make much money as a journalist and that was all I could afford anyway.

Fast-forward to present day: I have a year of science and related courses under my belt and a perfect GPA from this school (chem, bio, statistics, a couple psychology, biochem and I'm taking human anatomy and physiology this summer).

I could get into medical school without A&P but my biology classes didn't touch on it at all and the subject interests me, so I took it. It turns out the sequence is required by most PA schools, so if I decide to go that route, I am only two prereqs away from applying (I'd still have to take microbiology and ochem I for most PA schools and get 6 months experience working full-time in a hospital setting... more about that in a minute).

Maybe I am just burnt out from a year in school and volunteering 2 days a week, but the idea of being done with prereqs next semester sounds amazing! I'd take the GRE instead of the MCAT. I could conceivably get into the local PA school this fall and start grad school in the summer of 2011, instead of waiting til the fall of 2012.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm being reasonable or if I'm copping out because I'm burned out and tired from taking 21 credits last semester.

My family and friends all think I'm nuts to consider medical school at my age (32). I am a single woman with no dependents. I own a small home and I have some income from renters, but as of last month, I have no other income. I'm living off savings til I finish these prereqs. If I wrap it up in December, I can start full time as a tech where I'm currently volunteering (they have told me that I'd be a shoo-in for their training program, which is paid). Earning money for the first time in a year sounds amazing too!

Plusses for med school(?): I have a 4.0 GPA at the community college and I have one semester of chemistry from undergrad (~3.4 GPA). I have a scholarship that will pay for me to take physics, ochem, calc and 3-4 upper level science classes at a state university in the fall. My undergrad majors were journalism and political science (well rounded? or no science GPA to speak of). I have 100+ volunteer hours in an ER and I'm scheduled to shadow several DOs and MDs this summer. And this is what I WANT TO DO in the long run.

Minuses for med school: I have NO research experience. I want to have kids some day. I have not met the guy I'd have these imaginary kids with. I'm thinking of all the debt I'd have from medical school and how in 5 years I might want to take a year off to have a child, husband or not. Who knows if I'd even do well in physics and ochem next year? Maybe I've just been lucky at the community college. I will be hugely in debt and broke for many more years.

Care to talk me off the ledge ... or confirm that I'm being realistic in not going forward with the premed plan?

And has anyone else had these thoughts, or am I alone in this? I am wondering if maybe I am just a giant wuss.

 

[southerngrl]

First of all 32 is not too old. There are many on here including myself who have a few years on you. You have already done so much in the way of volunteering, shadowing, making good grades. Why waste it all? Many women have babies later in life. Whose to say you don't meet someone while in school who could be a future partner? You already went against your gut and took a different path once. You don't want to get down the road years from now as a PA and regret not taking the MD route. Nothing against PA's who provide a great service but why not go all the way? Take the summer off or cut back on your credit hours to give yourself a breather. Don't give up!!

 

[mspeedwagon]

I think you answered your own question... see bolded below. If you really want to be a physician you will NEVER be happy as a physician assistant. Now if you want to be a PA, that's different.

Plenty of women have babies while in med school/residency. If it's really that big of a concern for you, may I suggest having your eggs preserved: http://www.fertility-docs.com/egg_freezing.phtml.

Plusses for med school(?): I have a 4.0 GPA at the community college and I have one semester of chemistry from undergrad (~3.4 GPA). I have a scholarship that will pay for me to take physics, ochem, calc and 3-4 upper level science classes at a state university in the fall. My undergrad majors were journalism and political science (well rounded? or no science GPA to speak of). I have 100+ volunteer hours in an ER and I'm scheduled to shadow several DOs and MDs this summer. And this is what I WANT TO DO in the long run.

 

[lemurlover87]

I really considered PA up until a month ago since I would only need orgo I and microbio in the fall to be done with my pre-reqs. I volunteer in the ER and shadow both the PAs and doctors which made me think hard if I will be unhappy down the road if I never went all the way (or at least tried to). I know you are older than I am but there are people on here older than you who are pursuing their dream of becoming a doctor, and some are married with kids! Plus, you say you have a scholarship to finish your pre-reqs? That's a plus! I was going to take A&P this summer but decided to take the leap of becoming pre-med and start Physics, so what is an extra semester of pre-reqs and an extra year off in the end? I agree I know starting med school seems like such a long wait right now and I get frustrated some days too and feel like PA is a much quicker route to finishing school and making money. You have to think in terms of the long run, you need to picture yourself in 20 years as a PA or as a doctor and decide which will make you the most happy. Talk to both at your hospital, it’s extremely helpful to get their opinion. I think some people have regrets while others enjoy the flexibility of the PA profession so it is really up to what you want out of your career. In my opinion, finish your pre-reqs, take the MCAT and see how it goes. PA school can always be an option and finished in 2 years.

Personally, I do not want to become a PA and in 10 years be married with children and feel unfulfilled in my professional life and think what if, but that is just me. If you are single, more reason to focus on yourself and your dream and who knows maybe you will meet your future husband in med school 😍

 

[ChemMed]

I'm a little in the same boat romance wise and applying in the near future. I know I'd regret it if I didn't do it and I never know when Mr. right will come along or if ever. I figure if we're supposed to meet then it will happen while I am following my path and we'll find a way to make it work if that is what we want. Don't douse your dreams because you are worried about a future that has not happened. You are here now, what do you want to do while you are on this earth here and now? Sounds like being a physician is for you so do it.

 

[omaralt]

i have no idea what i'm doing here.. slow day at work 🙂

my 2 cents:

i understand this is your dream, but at a certain point you also need to start thinking about your dreams for life, and not just for your career. your 32 now. if everything goes as planned and you get in on the first try, you'll be starting med school at 34. + 4 yrs med school + residency (2-7 yrs, depending on what you want to do), and you will be 40 yrs old when you start working in the best case scenario! many times people dont get in on the first try, you may have to repeat a year, or you may decide to do a speciality that requires many years. either way, your going to be hundreds of thousands in debt, stressed out, no savings, no retirement, and only maybe (at best) 20 yrs from retirement. if you can cut out a few years, save some money in tuition and become a PA, it's definitely something to strongly consider.

what you need to do, is look at what you want in life overall. not just in terms of career. it will be very difficult to get married/have kids during med school. is getting married/having kids something you desire? if so, imagine spending all this time/money to get to med school and then having a kid.. are you still going to want to work the crazy hours during residency? look at what you want from life as a whole, and not with tunnel vision

actually, just become a dentist 🙂

good luck in whatever decision you make

 

[sylvanthus]

I don't think you will be saving as much time as you think by going the PA route. Most people accepted to PA school have several 1000 hours of experience. Chances are, you would need to work for a year or two in a direct care position to stand a good chance at getting into PA school. You could be a couple years into med school by then.

Course, there are always exceptions and people get into PA school with little to no experience. But, a lot of programs want people with experience.

If I were you, I would do what I did. Apply to both and make up your mind when you see what programs you get into. Its a bit of a pain and expensive, but gives you more options.

 

[kpetz]

I understand completely where you're coming from. I just turned 30 and am also a year or so away from applying. But I feel like having that drive to pursue medicine is often one of those passions/desires that doesn't cease overnight or even in a decade.

We all craft our own paths and that's what makes us unique as non-traditional applicants...adding that diversity of our experiences and maturity.

Of course realism does set in and try to distract or detour you off the path. As women, we also may start to experience that maternal itch and long for babies and a family.

You just have to follow your heart and trust that things will fall into place as they're meant to (I know...perhaps a tad too idealistic, but at least you can say you gave it your all).

Try to write a solid MCAT and continue with the volunteering. Perhaps even consider scanning science depts. and seeing if they are looking for any student researchers for the summer where you can get some research experience under your belt. I'm no pro at getting in since I'm still on the "attempting" path as well, but there are a few things you can do in the interim to make your application stronger.

Good luck!

 

[CookDeRosa]

I'm not sure if I'm having a down day or if I'm finally being realistic. I'm thinking about chucking my plans becoming a physician assistant instead.

First off, I well know the differences between the two careers. I think they both have their benefits and their downsides. The commonality is that I would get to work in a primary care setting and help people get better and/or stay well. I know others have very good reasons to pursue an MD. I don't know if in 10-20 years I would regret giving up now - I figure I might.

Some background: I've wanted a career in medicine since I was a teenager but let myself get derailed in college by a journalism career (my mentors kept saying I had natural talent, and the scholarships and internship offers persuaded me to drop my pre-med studies before they really even began). I had 10+ years as a journalist that, while fun and interesting, never felt right or fulfilling in the way I had hoped. I wasn't challenged intellectually as often reas I wanted. I wasn't really "helping people." Eventually, the job ceased to have any meaning to me beyond a paycheck. When I was laid off last year, I practically ran down to the local community college and registered for science classes, not even thinking about what I needed to get into medical school - just that I wanted to take these classes. With hindsight, I would have registered at a 4-year university but you don't make much money as a journalist and that was all I could afford anyway.

Fast-forward to present day: I have a year of science and related courses under my belt and a perfect GPA from this school (chem, bio, statistics, a couple psychology, biochem and I'm taking human anatomy and physiology this summer).

I could get into medical school without A&P but my biology classes didn't touch on it at all and the subject interests me, so I took it. It turns out the sequence is required by most PA schools, so if I decide to go that route, I am only two prereqs away from applying (I'd still have to take microbiology and ochem I for most PA schools and get 6 months experience working full-time in a hospital setting... more about that in a minute).

Maybe I am just burnt out from a year in school and volunteering 2 days a week, but the idea of being done with prereqs next semester sounds amazing! I'd take the GRE instead of the MCAT. I could conceivably get into the local PA school this fall and start grad school in the summer of 2011, instead of waiting til the fall of 2012.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm being reasonable or if I'm copping out because I'm burned out and tired from taking 21 credits last semester.

My family and friends all think I'm nuts to consider medical school at my age (32). I am a single woman with no dependents. I own a small home and I have some income from renters, but as of last month, I have no other income. I'm living off savings til I finish these prereqs. If I wrap it up in December, I can start full time as a tech where I'm currently volunteering (they have told me that I'd be a shoo-in for their training program, which is paid). Earning money for the first time in a year sounds amazing too!

Plusses for med school(?): I have a 4.0 GPA at the community college and I have one semester of chemistry from undergrad (~3.4 GPA). I have a scholarship that will pay for me to take physics, ochem, calc and 3-4 upper level science classes at a state university in the fall. My undergrad majors were journalism and political science (well rounded? or no science GPA to speak of). I have 100+ volunteer hours in an ER and I'm scheduled to shadow several DOs and MDs this summer. And this is what I WANT TO DO in the long run.

Minuses for med school: I have NO research experience. I want to have kids some day. I have not met the guy I'd have these imaginary kids with. I'm thinking of all the debt I'd have from medical school and how in 5 years I might want to take a year off to have a child, husband or not. Who knows if I'd even do well in physics and ochem next year? Maybe I've just been lucky at the community college. I will be hugely in debt and broke for many more years.

Care to talk me off the ledge ... or confirm that I'm being realistic in not going forward with the premed plan?

And has anyone else had these thoughts, or am I alone in this? I am wondering if maybe I am just a giant wuss.

>>


OK, so you haven't failed a class- you haven't even earned a B....but you have doubts? 😕 You're not that easy right??

Are you motivated by money? Calculate your potential income for 25 years as a physician against 25 years as a PA and subtract the student loans and the one year difference of entering practice earlier. The difference is more than a million dollars.

Are you motivated by authority? Consider that you will either be the decision maker, or the number two who asks the number one. Some people are uncomfortable deferring to those above him/her, others are uncomfortable being the one primarily responsible for every decision.

As to family, I can't really help you there. I have 4 children, and I'm glad I didn't have to divide my time when they were very little, I know they are too. That's not a slam, I'm just saying that you are wise to consider how their lives will be influenced by your decision.

 

[FDoRoML]

As an older female, as a (now) resident who has friends who were even older females with kids and decided to go to med school, I can say that it is a long arduous road but it is so incredibly worth it if it is truly what you are meant to do. You are closer than you think and I can attest that there will be multiple classmates in med school close to your age or older. I had one guy who was 50, took pre-reqs in college with his own kids!! One woman who was widowed and has two elementary/middle school-aged kids. It's all about what drives you in life. One of my classmates became a single mother in her first year of med school. Unplanned, very much so, but with some support by friends, family, and staff at school, she is very happy with her choices.

Yes, the debt is staggering, to say the least. But there are advantages for you-- if you remain single, as a resident, at least based on current repayment crap (it changes often), you would do pretty well and not have heavy duty payments until you could handle them. If you want to do EM, but then you stay on to do a fellowship or as faculty/ house staff at a 503c (which includes med school hospitals!), it adds up quickly to the current 10 year loan forgiveness. If you end up having a kid, your payments will benefit because of the costs of child care factored in. If you marry a very well-to-do man then I guess you are screwed for loan payments, but you'd be married and probably not so worried about loan payments!

Despite what some say there is time in med school to have kids. That is, I mean have babies. Generally it takes some careful planning and luck of a healthy pregnancy, but you can go uninterrupted. Others take off 6 months (I know many who have done this). Then more will have kids during the later years of residency or during a fellowship (probably not great during your internship). Although, if you want to do EM, it is shift work. That is VERY conducive to having time with your family. Most EM docs I know really make their own schedules. Many even moonlight to pay off loans faster.

There are a lot of options out there that include what you want in a career or life path AND what you want in your personal life. Talk to people before you give up in one frustrated moment. There will be more frustrated moments to come no matter which path you choose, so be willing to bounce ideas off of people who can relate. Not just close friends because some may not be in the medical field and haven't a clue what it will take to become a physician, or a PA, for that matter. The way I survived so far is to find balance. Have people you can talk to who are not in the medical professions, and then people who are. SDN can be very helpful, too. Just ignore the flamers and trolls... there are always a few.

Oh, and yes, as one other mentioned... you may find the man of your dreams at med school. Perhaps not a classmate (and often better NOT a classmate, as those can end badly and spell years of discomfort), but there are plenty of others around. And you will have plenty of time for a social life once you get over the initial shock of first year.

Wow, long post. Sorry.

Moral of my ridiculously long post:
Don't give up based on fears. You have come this far and can clearly hack it! 😀

 

[montessori2md]

If you *really* want to do primary care there is little reason to believe you'll have to pay that debt. Odds are you can get someone to pay if for you (of course it's always best to plan for worst case scenario...). PA salaries in primary care tend to be pretty low compared to PAs working for specialists, fyi.

Above post related to "direct care" hours is only true for some schools. The trend is for folks straight out of undergrad to be in PA school, though there are folks who don't like that. Technically, if you look at acceptance rates, the odds are better for med school than PA, but people who apply PA are not necessarily as qualified for PA as medical school applicants are qualified for med school, because it is WAY cheaper to apply for PA, so people will throw in an app and hope for an accept.

Babies: It's been done. A lot. If I had it to do over again, I probably would have gotten pregnant again as soon as I had my acceptance letter in hand. The first two years are really not that bad IMHO, you can have a normal life, it's like an 8-4 job most of the time. Third year of med school and intern year of residency are NOT normal, and no one should think otherwise. But there are primary care residencies that have eliminated the 30 hour shifts in favor of night float. Some schools have night float on some of the inpatient rotations 3rd year, so you aren't in the hospital all night every 4th night. ALL schools and residencies have taught pregnant MDs, so they all have a plan. Any reputable program would give you contact information from residents who have done it, so you could ask what it was like. Most schools will help you adjust your 3rd/4th year schedule, or even take a year off, if that's what you need to do (in residency that is a bigger problem, expect more of a standard maternity leave -you are part of their workforce).

PA: I thought really hard about doing PA. What was most tempting for me was that you could switch specialties at will, which is certainly not the case for MDs or NPs. The financials came out even for me, either way, if I had to pay all the tuition back w/ interest. For me, it came down to wanting the training. I really wanted to be there in lecture for 2 years, I really wanted residency, and all that goes with it. I think it's really important that you be able to explain to yourself that going PA is not "giving up", it's choosing a different path into/in the clinic. Either way, you are helping people and working in a clinic. I don't think there is anything wrong with NOT wanting to learn all this junk.

 

[katiemaude]

Thank you all for responding. I really appreciate the encouragement.

OK, I think I've calmed down a bit over the past month. I was very burnt out from the spring semester between take three science classes with labs and a math class, plus volunteering twice a week in the ER.

My question: Does anyone here think it's a bad idea or a good idea to wait until next summer, after I've finished orgo and physics, to take the MCAT - if I decide to keep going forward with my med schoo plan? I realize that will put me at a huge disadvantge in the application cycle. Would it be better to take it in April when I'll probably be in the middle of studying for the orgo II and physics II finals?

An update:
I just finished my summer session human anatomy and physiology class and scored an A. One more down! I'm taking the second part of it next semester after I get a much-needed week off to decompress. These shortened summer semesters at the community college are intense!

I have to work out my schedule for the fall -- it turns out I am not in the proper physics class at the four-year university I plan to transfer to and I don't know if I can get into physics I. Which is a shame because it throws off my whole plan. I guess I can try to take it a private university but it will cost me 4x what I would be paying at the state university. (Actually a lot more, because I have a scholarship from the cc to cover my tuition after transferring.)

So for the fall I have organic chem, microbio and hopefully physics. I am running out of savings and need to start working, so I might have to drop microbio.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Thank you all for responding. I really appreciate the encouragement.

OK, I think I've calmed down a bit over the past month. I was very burnt out from the spring semester between take three science classes with labs and a math class, plus volunteering twice a week in the ER.

My question: Does anyone here think it's a bad idea or a good idea to wait until next summer, after I've finished orgo and physics, to take the MCAT - if I decide to keep going forward with my med schoo plan? I realize that will put me at a huge disadvantge in the application cycle. Would it be better to take it in April when I'll probably be in the middle of studying for the orgo II and physics II finals?

An update:
I just finished my summer session human anatomy and physiology class and scored an A. One more down! I'm taking the second part of it next semester after I get a much-needed week off to decompress. These shortened summer semesters at the community college are intense!

I have to work out my schedule for the fall -- it turns out I am not in the proper physics class at the four-year university I plan to transfer to and I don't know if I can get into physics I. Which is a shame because it throws off my whole plan. I guess I can try to take it a private university but it will cost me 4x what I would be paying at the state university. (Actually a lot more, because I have a scholarship from the cc to cover my tuition after transferring.)

So for the fall I have organic chem, microbio and hopefully physics. I am running out of savings and need to start working, so I might have to drop microbio.

I listened to the advice of people on SDN and took the MCAT in May , before taking OChem, instead of waiting until July like I should have. It is now July 1st. I could still have gotten my MCAT in early Aug without being at a disadvantage anywhere. The secondary applications are not even looked at (most places) until August anyway.

 

[Northwesterly]

I have to work out my schedule for the fall -- it turns out I am not in the proper physics class at the four-year university I plan to transfer to and I don't know if I can get into physics I. Which is a shame because it throws off my whole plan. I guess I can try to take it a private university but it will cost me 4x what I would be paying at the state university. (Actually a lot more, because I have a scholarship from the cc to cover my tuition after transferring.)

So for the fall I have organic chem, microbio and hopefully physics. I am running out of savings and need to start working, so I might have to drop microbio.

That's a pretty heavy course load--I think dropping microbio would be a good idea, even absent financial pressure. (Don't get me wrong, 3 science courses is very doable, but if you're volunteering and possibly working on the side it becomes pretty damn unpleasant.) And re: physics classes, I'd just show up at the first class. As long as you've got your paperwork ready (special registration forms, or whatever they use at your school--check in advance!) almost any non-horrible professor will sign you in.

 

[NTF]

Would it be better to take it in April when I'll probably be in the middle of studying for the orgo II and physics II finals?

Most people recommend taking the MCAT after completing courses. But there are people who have taken it before and done well. I think more of a concern is that you want dedicated time to prepare for the MCAT. It's not just reviewing the material but getting a facility with the actual test. So I would definitely not recommend trying to do it while you're in the middle of studying for finals.

Take the MCAT in May or June. That still gives your July and August if you feel the need to retake it.

Ed, is correct. If you're complete in August that's still pretty early.