Gme-1

[Perrotfish]

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So the GME-1 app is due today. Some questions:

1) Do program directors get to see my list of preferences, or are they blind to it like in the normal match?

2) There is one site that I haven't rotated at yet, it's up next. If by some chance I end up loving it, is there any practical way to let the match know I changed my preference?

3) Does anyone ever just not get anything on their list? As in, not even a transitional year? I would be legitimately thrilled with any navy Peds slot, and would make due with a transitional year at one of the big 3 if necessary, but I keep worrying that I'm going to wake up one morning and find out I've been placed into an FM slot, or defered to the civilian match, or :shudder: placed into a prelim surgical year. Is that 100% not worth worring about or does that sometimes happen?

 

[pgg]

So the GME-1 app is due today. Some questions:

1) Do program directors get to see my list of preferences, or are they blind to it like in the normal match?

As it was explained to me, they all know everything about your application, including your ordered preference list. The PDs all meet at the GME selection board and hash things out together.

2) There is one site that I haven't rotated at yet, it's up next. If by some chance I end up loving it, is there any practical way to let the match know I changed my preference?

When my app was in, the point of contact for all post-deadline application issues was a guy named Pelot (I think) at Bethesda. No idea if it's still him doing that job, but there ought to be someone in that position.

3) Does anyone ever just not get anything on their list? As in, not even a transitional year? I would be legitimately thrilled with any navy Peds slot, and would make due with a transitional year at one of the big 3 if necessary, but I keep worrying that I'm going to wake up one morning and find out I've been placed into an FM slot, or defered to the civilian match, or :shudder: placed into a prelim surgical year. Is that 100% not worth worring about or does that sometimes happen?

When the pool is as small as the Navy, there can be huge year-to-year variability in competitiveness. But transitional spots can be relatively competitive. Lots of rads/anes/derm/etc hopefuls with good numbers want those spots. I think they always fill.

The only people who are guaranteed an in-service PGY1 slot are USUHS grads.

I'm not informed or connected enough to give an intelligent 'what are my odds' answer, beyond saying that your odds of backing into a FP or prelim surg slot are low but nonzero.

 

[DoctaJMa]

As it was explained to me, they all know everything about your application, including your ordered preference list. The PDs all meet at the GME selection board and hash things out together.

THis is directly from the LOI that we receive.

"Your rankings are confidential. The Army GME office does not tell
program directors how a student ranked their program. The only
information a program director has is that the student ranked the
program as one of their choices for the Match. If program directors ask
students as part of the interview process about their rankings,
students are not to divulge this information. Nor should students
volunteer their program rankings. Furthermore, there should be no
provision of any documents other than a curriculum vitae by
applicants to program directors (board scores, grades, transcripts,
etc should be neither asked for nor volunteered). Any requests for
such should be reported to the GME office."

 

[Slevin]

THis is directly from the LOI that we receive.

"Your rankings are con

 

[DrMetal]

Can one state a geographic preference (somewhere in a comments box, for instance) on the GME1 application?

For instance, can one apply: 1-IM San Diego > 2-IM Bethesda > 3-IM Portsmouth > 4-TY San Diego > 5-TY Bethesda
...and then say something to the effect, "I have a preference for San Diego & Bethesda. If I cannot have my choice #1 nor #2, then I prefer to have choice #4 or #5" ???

(nothing against Virginia . . .I just like living in places with a ridiculously high cost of living, so I can pay out the ***** for rent)

 

[Slevin]

In the Army you have to rank all programs in a speciality and if you don't get your #1 choice then they go to your second choice. If they don't pick you for your #1 choice in IM but still have spots at either your 2nd or 3rd choice they'll give you that rather than slotting you in a TY. Area preference isn't considered in the application process unless you have a spouse who will be matching in a specific area

 

[DrMetal]

In the Army you have to rank all programs in a speciality and if you don't get your #1 choice then they go to your second choice. If they don't pick you for your #1 choice in IM but still have spots at either your 2nd or 3rd choice they'll give you that rather than slotting you in a TY. Area preference isn't considered in the application process unless you have a spouse who will be matching in a specific area

Ok . . .same hold true for Navy?

 

[pgg]

THis is directly from the LOI that we receive.

"Your rankings are confidential. The Army GME office does not tell
program directors how a student ranked their program. The only
information a program director has is that the student ranked the
program as one of their choices for the Match. If program directors ask
students as part of the interview process about their rankings,
students are not to divulge this information. Nor should students
volunteer their program rankings. Furthermore, there should be no
provision of any documents other than a curriculum vitae by
applicants to program directors (board scores, grades, transcripts,
etc should be neither asked for nor volunteered). Any requests for
such should be reported to the GME office."

That's interesting. I wonder if that's new, or if it's different for the Navy. Because it sure doesn't jive with the random chitchat I had with people in the process ~5-6 years ago.

 

[Jolie South]

That's interesting. I wonder if that's new, or if it's different for the Navy. Because it sure doesn't jive with the random chitchat I had with people in the process ~5-6 years ago.

Yea, in the AF, you specifically discuss your preferences with program directors. You also provide your DoD app which has all those choices listed.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Can one state a geographic preference (somewhere in a comments box, for instance) on the GME1 application?

For instance, can one apply: 1-IM San Diego > 2-IM Bethesda > 3-IM Portsmouth > 4-TY San Diego > 5-TY Bethesda
...and then say something to the effect, "I have a preference for San Diego & Bethesda. If I cannot have my choice #1 nor #2, then I prefer to have choice #4 or #5" ???

(nothing against Virginia . . .I just like living in places with a ridiculously high cost of living, so I can pay out the ***** for rent)

If its IM you want, you'll get one of your top two. Just rotate at Balboa and Bethesda (Walter Reed Stadium at Bethesda Field or whatever we're calling it now) and avoid P-town.

In terms of IM training, this might be a mistake. Portsmouth puts out a good product and has plenty of patients to go around. Also, although I have no stats to back it up, P-town residents seem to be doing very well for fellowship selection over the past few years.

Tranny is much more competitive than IM. There is no chance they will let you fall beyond the 3 IM programs if you suggest you might be interested in medicine.

 

[Gastrapathy]

That's interesting. I wonder if that's new, or if it's different for the Navy. Because it sure doesn't jive with the random chitchat I had with people in the process ~5-6 years ago.

Is this because its now a "match" rather than a selection board for PGY1? I think this happens the week prior to the GMESB.

I wouldn't do anything sneaky on my application. No matter what the policy, everyone stays at the same hotel anyway.

 

[NavyFP]

So the GME-1 app is due today. Some questions:

1) Do program directors get to see my list of preferences, or are they blind to it like in the normal match?

2) There is one site that I haven't rotated at yet, it's up next. If by some chance I end up loving it, is there any practical way to let the match know I changed my preference?

3) Does anyone ever just not get anything on their list? As in, not even a transitional year? I would be legitimately thrilled with any navy Peds slot, and would make due with a transitional year at one of the big 3 if necessary, but I keep worrying that I'm going to wake up one morning and find out I've been placed into an FM slot, or defered to the civilian match, or :shudder: placed into a prelim surgical year. Is that 100% not worth worring about or does that sometimes happen?

1) When the match was set up for the Navy, the PDs were blinded to the choices of the students. This was considered by the folks at MDAD as inviolate. PDs were most displeased and consistently argued that it would be better for the students if they new, but were always blocked. I have not heard that has changed in the past year. The PDs are supposed to rank students best to worse and simple algorhytms mean that the best students who want to go to the program will end up there.

2) You can change the order of your choices up until the day prior to the match. After the deadline you have to contact Mr. Pelot to change them, but the order can be changed (just not the programs).

3) Historically a few students will get nothing on their list. This is 4-5 students who want something competitive or small (ie Ortho, ENT, in some years OB) and are just not good students. With choice 5 being an ANY site for something like Trans, Gen Surg, IM or FM it is very unusual to not find a spot. The bottom 10% of a class will get placed in larger programs, but they also usually ask for something like IM/FM/Trans/Gen Surg.

If you want more info specific to your situation, PM me.

 

[NavyFP]

Is this because its now a "match" rather than a selection board for PGY1? I think this happens the week prior to the GMESB.

I wouldn't do anything sneaky on my application. No matter what the policy, everyone stays at the same hotel anyway.

Agree not to do anything "sneaky", but the match has been done prior to the convening of the GMESB. It is just given the final stamp of approval during the board.

 

[Perrotfish]

Agree not to do anything "sneaky", but the match has been done prior to the convening of the GMESB. It is just given the final stamp of approval during the board.

If the board that meeds in November is just a stamp of approval for an even earlier match why don't we find out until late december?

 

[AF M4]

If the board that meeds in November is just a stamp of approval for an even earlier match why don't we find out until late december?

Probably to allow for last minute checks, some horse-trading, and approval by various folks of rank who don't necessarily sit on the board in an official capacity but maintain a high degree of influence.

 

[bleeker10]

If the board that meeds in November is just a stamp of approval for an even earlier match why don't we find out until late december?

Doesn't the SG of your branch have to sign off on the selections, like when you were accepted into HPSP? I'm sure this adds to the time delay.

 

[NavyFP]

If the board that meeds in November is just a stamp of approval for an even earlier match why don't we find out until late december?

The approval process takes time. The GMESB has to agree and then the SG has to agree. Once you have SG approval, the results are released.

 

[Hootenanny]

Good luck Perrotfish and all others applying... My round is next and odds are by this time next year I still won't know what I want to be when I grow up 😎

 

[Slevin]

47 days till the Match, it can't come soon enough.

I'm also trying to decide if I should buy or rent when I finally get done with school

 

[bleeker10]

47 days till the Match, it can't come soon enough.

I'm also trying to decide if I should buy or rent when I finally get done with school

If I end up at SAMMC or MAMC, I'm gonna buy a place. I'm done with renting and losing money on it. I'll be in residency for 5 years so hopefully it won't end up being a bad investment. If I end up at TAMC or WRNMMC, then I will just rent since I won't be able to afford a house.

 

[bobbyseal]

If I end up at SAMMC or MAMC, I'm gonna buy a place. I'm done with renting and losing money on it. I'll be in residency for 5 years so hopefully it won't end up being a bad investment. If I end up at TAMC or WRNMMC, then I will just rent since I won't be able to afford a house.

I bought a condo when I started my residency. Prices dropped about $30k from the time I bought until the time I sold. So, that pretty much sucked. However, if prices remain stable, over 5 years you should be able to put enough equity into it to at least sell the house and cover closing costs.

 

[Slevin]

I bought a condo when I started my residency. Prices dropped about $30k from the time I bought until the time I sold. So, that pretty much sucked. However, if prices remain stable, over 5 years you should be able to put enough equity into it to at least sell the house and cover closing costs.

That's my worry, with the housing market the way it is right now if I buy will I be able to sell and will I lose money on it? If housing prices continue to slide then I'm just throwing money away, if on the other hand I can sell it for at least what I paid for it then I should be ok

 

[Fatherdoc]

I am likely naieve but Program Directors gave no indication the results were available prior to the meeting in late November. All feedback and encouragement from AF staff and PD's during interviews is extremely positive with the caveat that actual applicant numbers aren't known during the early months of the 4th year. I wonder if this is everyone's experience. And from an HPSP AF perspective, the PD's asked for ranking and asked to be updated. I assume this is generally common. Waiting is hard.

 

[Jolie South]

I am likely naieve but Program Directors gave no indication the results were available prior to the meeting in late November. All feedback and encouragement from AF staff and PD's during interviews is extremely positive with the caveat that actual applicant numbers aren't known during the early months of the 4th year. I wonder if this is everyone's experience. And from an HPSP AF perspective, the PD's asked for ranking and asked to be updated. I assume this is generally common. Waiting is hard.

Yea, especially when you're several thousand dollars deep in civilian interview costs that can't be avoided because there are no interview dates after the GME board releases results.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

That's my worry, with the housing market the way it is right now if I buy will I be able to sell and will I lose money on it? If housing prices continue to slide then I'm just throwing money away, if on the other hand I can sell it for at least what I paid for it then I should be ok

If you buy now, you are buying into a market where prices are artificially supported by suppressed interest rates. Oh, and there is that shadow foreclosure-eligible inventory issue which may or may not be relevant, depending on your location.

Assuming you qualify, you had best be satisfied with your present payment because refinancing will not likely be possible unless you do so to move to a fixed-rate from a variable or to a shorter term.

 

[elderjack21]

If you buy now, you are buying into a market where prices are artificially supported by suppressed interest rates. Oh, and there is that shadow foreclosure-eligible inventory issue which may or may not be relevant, depending on your location.
.

In addition to that. Let me give you my real life scenario. 3.5 yrs ago we bought our house and took out like a 100,000 mortgage. Now, after paying on that for the whole time, we only have the mortgage down to like 96,000. So for all that we have paid in in 4 years, something like 600$ a month, not including property taxes and homeowners insurance and maintenance costs, we only have like an additional 4-5,000 that we put away against the mortgage. Owe yeah, and our home value has dropped 12,000...and we will have to pay a bunch of closing costs and junk if we can sell.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html

Great calc for rent vs buy.

 

[Slevin]

Thanks for the advice on rent vs buy. I think I may just rent instead

 

[bleeker10]

In addition to that. Let me give you my real life scenario. 3.5 yrs ago we bought our house and took out like a 100,000 mortgage. Now, after paying on that for the whole time, we only have the mortgage down to like 96,000. So for all that we have paid in in 4 years, something like 600$ a month, not including property taxes and homeowners insurance and maintenance costs, we only have like an additional 4-5,000 that we put away against the mortgage. Owe yeah, and our home value has dropped 12,000...and we will have to pay a bunch of closing costs and junk if we can sell.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/business/buy-rent-calculator.html

Great calc for rent vs buy.

I remember taking an economics class in high school and the prof talked about mortgages. He drew out a diagram that explained you pay more for taxes and interest during the first half of the mortgage and in the second half the house payment takes off more of the principal.

I know I'm being naive by saying I want to own rather than rent but I've lived in a lot of different places the past 7 years and I'm tired of spending my money on something I'm not owning or investing in. Again, it depends on where I do residency though.

Edit: I found this article talking about mortgage payments and interest vs. principal
http://20smoney.com/2010/03/09/how-much-of-your-mortgage-payment-goes-towards-loan-principal/

 

[elderjack21]

What time of day are the military match results released (specifically army)? Is it pretty standard year to year, or is it variable?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I remember taking an economics class in high school and the prof talked about mortgages. He drew out a diagram that explained you pay more for taxes and interest during the first half of the mortgage and in the second half the house payment takes off more of the principal.

I know I'm being naive by saying I want to own rather than rent but I've lived in a lot of different places the past 7 years and I'm tired of spending my money on something I'm not owning or investing in. Again, it depends on where I do residency though.

Edit: I found this article talking about mortgage payments and interest vs. principal
http://20smoney.com/2010/03/09/how-much-of-your-mortgage-payment-goes-towards-loan-principal/

That is the point. You aren't "owning" if your miniscule principal fraction of your monthly mortgage payments are stripped away by property devaluation or by aggregate transaction costs. The same goes for your tax deduction, especially if you are earning a low income as a house officer. "Ownership" hangs all maintenance costs on you, all property taxes on you and only benefits you as a so-called "investment" when your property increases in market value, something that these days is not happening in very many markets. And don't take recent news reports about house prices dramatically turning around. News people often report upticks in asking prices, not closing prices.

Being tired of renting doesn't make buying a good deal. And just because you believe you threw away money on rent over the past seven years doesn't mean buying now will make you better off.

 

[pgg]

If you buy now, you are buying into a market where prices are artificially supported by suppressed interest rates.

I think this is a super important point, and anyone who's thinking that property values will increase, even modestly, in the next few years needs to take this into account.

For the moment, there's no sign of rising interest rates. The Fed has stated its intention of keeping them low at least through 2013. But they have nowhere to go but up, and when interest rates rise, home sale prices MUST fall. Whether or not other market forces will offset that pressure is anyone's guess, but home buyers today are virtually guaranteed at least one major downward force affecting their home's value given a 3+ year horizon.

 

[bleeker10]

Well like I previously said, I'm just wanting to purchase a home out of sheer frustration of renting. I won't be starting residency until July 2013 so there is time to figure things out. My residency specialty of choice is 5-6 years depending on the location so it wouldn't necessarily be a short term investment. There's still a lot of details I need to figure out before I commit to owning a home. Location, mortgage rates, the housing market, likelihood of having to sell vs. rent it out when I have to move after residency, etc are all things I'll look at. If it turns out to just not be the right decision for me, then I won't buy. It's just wishful thinking right now. I screwed up my credit once when I was younger. I won't do that again.

 

[notdeadyet]

My residency specialty of choice is 5-6 years depending on the location so it wouldn't necessarily be a short term investment.

People considering purchasing a home for 5-6 years not a short-term investment is the reason that so many people are underwater right now.

 

[bleeker10]

You are right. What I meant was I am not looking to own a house for a few years and sell it, like so many other people do. Depending on location, I will hold onto the house and rent it out. There are a lot of unseen variables right now. Maybe owning a house in the next 5-10 years is a pipe dream for me, but at least it gives me something else to look forward to besides the next shelf exam or step II or applying for residency.

I do appreciate all the constructive criticism in this thread. It's opened my eyes to a few things and I've learned some things as well. When the time comes, I'm sure I'll ask for more advice on here along with advice from family and close friends.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

You are right. What I meant was I am not looking to own a house for a few years and sell it, like so many other people do. Depending on location, I will hold onto the house and rent it out. There are a lot of unseen variables right now. Maybe owning a house in the next 5-10 years is a pipe dream for me, but at least it gives me something else to look forward to besides the next shelf exam or step II or applying for residency.

I do appreciate all the constructive criticism in this thread. It's opened my eyes to a few things and I've learned some things as well. When the time comes, I'm sure I'll ask for more advice on here along with advice from family and close friends.

The renting-it-out scenario can also be a problem. Real estate agents looking to make a quick buck don't always screen tenants well and not infrequently turn to the owner to fix problems that they should be handling in their role as property managers, for which they are paid.

Talk to a few people who have tried the renting out process; you will hear the horror stories: delinquent rent, nightmarish destruction tales, stolen appliances and outright stripping of appliances and fixtures from rented units, things that damage deposits do not adequately cover and that leave owners taking tenants and agents to court. The idea of living in a house for a while and then getting someone else to rent it from you while covering your mortgage payment is a kind of property speculation that has a lot more downside than it might have in the past. Remember, many states require minimum services to be applied at lease turnover, like repainting and replacement of carpeting; you need to include that as well.