Go DO or try for MD?

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Go DO or reapply MD

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Domingos

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Hi, I am a long time lurker on SDN. I was fortunately accepted to two DO programs this cycle. However, I also read about how DOs have a harder time to go into competitive residencies, and the residency merger in 2020 might make specializing even more difficult since MDs can then apply to DO residencies. I think the only competitive specialty that I have in mind right now is Orthopedic Surgery (along with internal medicine and PMR), but I am not sure if I would like to try for other competitive specialties when I progress through med school. I fear that no matter how hard I work, I will be disregarded by some PDs out there because I am a DO.

My current stats: GPA 3.5 and MCAT 30. I wouldn't be aiming for top MD programs, but an MD is an MD. Should I just stick with DO programs or should I try my chances at MD schools after I improve my grades and MCAT?
 
You've been accepted to two programs already, there's no turning back. Don't kill your chances at getting to a medical school period by dropping those acceptances. However, you can have a peak at the 2016 Match List and have an amazing surprise.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/match-list-2016.1189268/

1 ortho match at Mayo Clinic.
1 PM&R match at Spaulding hospital/Harvard.
Plus plenty of other awesome matches. (**there is the Anesthesia match that blew my mind!, try to find what I am talking about)

Those two above are the most relevant to you and both above are top tier residency programs. It's hard to say how this will effect DOs in the future, but we will only know with time. However, I think things are looking up for DOs. I suggest taking your acceptances, relax, and celebrate with family and friends. Congrats you deserve it!
 
If you turn down DO acceptances, your chances of getting into DO in a future cycle go down drastically.

And, as @IslandStyle808 said, competitive specialties aren't limited to MDs.

Which would you regret more-- ending up as a DO in a less competitive specialty, or ending up not getting into medical school at all? The answer was obvious to me, but it's something you have to decide for yourself.
 
see if you can defer the DO acceptance for 1 year , and try to apply for MD one more time. But if they don't allow you to defer the DO acceptance , then just go DO
 
You're certainly a borderline MD applicant. It is possible you could get in, but again there's no guarantees. You'd be taking a gamble regardless. The MCAT is a whole different exam now from what you took, it's honestly not worth the risk to make a lower score and then be SOL.

I'm not sure how likely a deferment is unless you have a serious reason, so not sure if that's an option. Check the match lists for your two DO acceptances for this year....any matches in the specialties you'd like?

I'm sort of in a similar predicament and I've wrestled with this...it's partly an ego thing and also wondering if you will be able to have ample opportunities. Whatever you do...make sure you think long and hard about it!
 
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Harder, but not impossible.

Do you want to be a doctor or not.

If I put a gun to your head and say that you're most likely going to be a Primary Care doc, is that a deal breaker? if it is, drop the accepts and let the seats go to someone who really wants to be a doctor.






Domingos said:
Hi, I am a long time lurker on SDN. I was fortunately accepted to two DO programs this cycle. However, I also read about how DOs have a harder time to go into competitive residencies, and the residency merger in 2020 might make specializing even more difficult since MDs can then apply to DO residencies. I think the only competitive specialty that I have in mind right now is Orthopedic Surgery (along with internal medicine and PMR), but I am not sure if I would like to try for other competitive specialties when I progress through med school. I fear that no matter how hard I work, I will be disregarded by some PDs out there because I am a DO.

My current stats: GPA 3.5 and MCAT 30. I wouldn't be aiming for top MD programs, but an MD is an MD. Should I just stick with DO programs or should I try my chances at MD schools after I improve my grades and MCAT?
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Your stats are borderline so I'm hesitant in telling you to reapply. If you had a 3.7+ w/ 32+ then it might have been different.

There are people with higher stats than you that don't get in for 2-3 cycles.

I'm not sure where you are located but look at how competitive your state allopathic school is and see if you would be willing to invest 2-3 years getting into there.

If you were thinking about IM and PMR then I would just take the acceptances and walk. I mean, look at this guy http://findadoctor.spauldingrehab.org/Details/16?index=1&lastName=zafonte
 
How old are you? To a 22 y/o, a one year deference may be nothing. I thought about this as well, but I'm 30 and don't want surgery so I was like whatever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I am a 22 yo.

Ho0v-man said:
How old are you? To a 22 y/o, a one year deference may be nothing. I thought about this as well, but I'm 30 and don't want surgery so I was like whatever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Domingos said:
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I am a 22 yo.
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Then you might want to defer if possible. If not possible , go DO. Despite what SDN has people thinking, DOs are actually doctors. That's something few people can do and you should be proud of it.


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You applied MD this time too, right? (How'd that work out for you?)

How much incremental improvement do you think you can accomplish in the 4 months that remain to you this cycle before it costs you an additional 2 years, not 1? Remember, for MD, it's not grade replacement, so GPA changes will be slow and tedious. And it's a whole different MCAT -- so also not that quick and easy.

You've got a spot. Be grateful. Go to medical school.
 
Mad Jack said:
Defer for a year if they'll let you, apply MD, if you get an acceptance, go MD. If not, go DO.
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I havent heard of a situation where a school that agrees to let you defer wont put a stipulation/ makes you sign an agreement that you cant apply to other schools. Maybe they exist, but all the defer for a year cases I know of required applicants to agree to this. I dont particularly recommend breaking that agreement(which will probably be in writing): the odds it will blow up in your face, even if not super high, arent worth it at all.

OP it would be one thing if you were a 3.9/34 applicant. You arent; both your GPA and MCAT are below average for MD schools. Your best shot was this cycle, not in subsequent cycles when youll be a reapplicant. Your odds as a reapplicant arent going to be high. Im all for being open and honest about the biases/limitations DO's still face but this isnt a close call: go to the DO school.
 
Domingos said:
Hi, I am a long time lurker on SDN. I was fortunately accepted to two DO programs this cycle. However, I also read about how DOs have a harder time to go into competitive residencies, and the residency merger in 2020 might make specializing even more difficult since MDs can then apply to DO residencies. I think the only competitive specialty that I have in mind right now is Orthopedic Surgery (along with internal medicine and PMR), but I am not sure if I would like to try for other competitive specialties when I progress through med school. I fear that no matter how hard I work, I will be disregarded by some PDs out there because I am a DO.

My current stats: GPA 3.5 and MCAT 30. I wouldn't be aiming for top MD programs, but an MD is an MD. Should I just stick with DO programs or should I try my chances at MD schools after I improve my grades and MCAT?
Click to expand...

Getting into Ortho Surgery right now is highly competitive for MD's and more so for a DO. Just the way it is, you are right.

Not to be mean, but your stats are not that special for an MD and next year they will be that much better? I'm guessing you didn't make it into any MD schools this round and thus probably won't make it into the highly competitive MD schools that are a bit better known for placing people into ortho. So your chances would be maybe a few percent better with an MD.

So you're willing to give up a shot at medicine for a very slightly easier shot at ortho surgery, which you may decide you don't want after you do a rotation through it?

Most schools don't just let you take an extra year to decide. Most require a really good documented reason, like you were in a MVC or have cancer or some such.

I'd ask the question of, how would I feel as a DO? If you'd be unhappy then take your chances and decline the acceptances and let someone else passionate have the slots.
 
Mad Jack said:
And likely do absolutely nothing to said student unless they both found out and bothered notifying the MD school in question.
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Yes, what I am referring to. A highly unlikely situation to happen, but still holds a lot of risk.
 
Mad Jack said:
Extremely low risk, extremely high reward.
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We are gonna have to agree to disagree. There are definitely cases of those people who do defer and go to an MD school, I will admit this. However, it is still scary to always have it on the back of your mind that said DO school could retaliate (even if the the chance of this happening is extremely low).
 
IslandStyle808 said:
We are gonna have to agree to disagree. There are definitely cases of those people who do defer and go to an MD school, I will admit this. However, it is still scary to always have it on the back of your mind that said DO school could retaliate (even if the the chance of this happening is extremely low).
Click to expand...
giphy.gif

Never heard of someone getting caught going DO>MD.

DO>DO and MD>MD, on the other hand...
 
Domingos said:
Hi, I am a long time lurker on SDN. I was fortunately accepted to two DO programs this cycle. However, I also read about how DOs have a harder time to go into competitive residencies, and the residency merger in 2020 might make specializing even more difficult since MDs can then apply to DO residencies. I think the only competitive specialty that I have in mind right now is Orthopedic Surgery (along with internal medicine and PMR), but I am not sure if I would like to try for other competitive specialties when I progress through med school. I fear that no matter how hard I work, I will be disregarded by some PDs out there because I am a DO.

My current stats: GPA 3.5 and MCAT 30. I wouldn't be aiming for top MD programs, but an MD is an MD. Should I just stick with DO programs or should I try my chances at MD schools after I improve my grades and MCAT?
Click to expand...

Your having a brain fart if you are actually considering giving up an acceptance to a med school, so that you can re-apply at a different med school.

Stop thinking DO/MD, think DOCTOR. Think Medical School.

These two medical schools liked you, they wanted you, they want you to be a part of their next class. The MD school did not like you, they don't care about you, so F-them.

The single hardest part of becoming a doctor is getting into medical school, and you have two acceptances....

**Shakes head**
 
Ortho is possible as a DO due to a large number of AOA spots, even post merger these will still most likely take a good number of DOs. If you had better stats I would say reapply MD but you are below average for MD. Take the DO and never look back
 
C'mon OP go DO and don't look back! Your blessed to have those acceptances.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Thanks for all the encouragements and perspectives! Lots to think about on my part.
 
Meh. I was a 29/3.55 candidate with good experience that applied August 2008 and got 1 MD invite after a student there vouched for me. That was in April. I wouldn't do it. Times have changed.
 
Domingos said:
Hi, I am a long time lurker on SDN. I was fortunately accepted to two DO programs this cycle. However, I also read about how DOs have a harder time to go into competitive residencies, and the residency merger in 2020 might make specializing even more difficult since MDs can then apply to DO residencies. I think the only competitive specialty that I have in mind right now is Orthopedic Surgery (along with internal medicine and PMR), but I am not sure if I would like to try for other competitive specialties when I progress through med school. I fear that no matter how hard I work, I will be disregarded by some PDs out there because I am a DO.

My current stats: GPA 3.5 and MCAT 30. I wouldn't be aiming for top MD programs, but an MD is an MD. Should I just stick with DO programs or should I try my chances at MD schools after I improve my grades and MCAT?
Click to expand...


Are you 100% certain you will improve your grades and MCAT? You never know what will happen...

The hospital I work at seems to be full of Ortho DOs. I think DO friendly residencies will remain DO friendly even after the merger.
 
Something else to consider: Its not just the specialty that is harder to match as a DO but also specific programs within whatever specialty. This is especially true for IM imo(and why Im bringing this up since you mentioned your interest). If you go to a DO school you will almost certainly be able to match IM somewhere. However the good university based programs will be harder. Honestly I was a bit disappointed when I looked at some of the match lists for DO schools (like this one: https://tourocom.touro.edu/academics/do-program/the-match/match-results/ ) and see that the IM matches are pretty much what you would expect to find on a caribbean school's math list. This is probably important only if you want to a fellowship but it is something to consider and something that often gets overlooked in these discussions.

That being said if I was in your situation I would just take the DO acceptance and run.
 
CleganeBowlis4Real said:
Something else to consider: Its not just the specialty that is harder to match as a DO but also specific programs within whatever specialty. This is especially true for IM imo(and why Im bringing this up since you mentioned your interest). If you go to a DO school you will almost certainly be able to match IM somewhere. However the good university based programs will be harder. Honestly I was a bit disappointed when I looked at some of the match lists for DO schools (like this one: https://tourocom.touro.edu/academics/do-program/the-match/match-results/ ) and see that the IM matches are pretty much what you would expect to find on a caribbean school's math list. This is probably important only if you want to a fellowship but it is something to consider and something that often gets overlooked in these discussions.

That being said if I was in your situation I would just take the DO acceptance and run.
Click to expand...

Idk man, the match lists are pretty impressive this year http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/match-list-2016.1189268/
 
CleganeBowlis4Real said:
Something else to consider: Its not just the specialty that is harder to match as a DO but also specific programs within whatever specialty. This is especially true for IM imo(and why Im bringing this up since you mentioned your interest). If you go to a DO school you will almost certainly be able to match IM somewhere. However the good university based programs will be harder. Honestly I was a bit disappointed when I looked at some of the match lists for DO schools (like this one: https://tourocom.touro.edu/academics/do-program/the-match/match-results/ ) and see that the IM matches are pretty much what you would expect to find on a caribbean school's math list. This is probably important only if you want to a fellowship but it is something to consider and something that often gets overlooked in these discussions.
Click to expand...

Great point.

To help you guys decipher the IM matches on that touro list: 5 low-tier university programs (UConn x 2, Stony Brook x 2, and Drexel) and a mid-tier program (Ohio State). The remaining 33 are community programs. This is pretty common at all DO schools (only 15-20% of IM applicants match at university programs). This can be a huge disadvantage when it comes to fellowship placement (more so in themore competitive fellowships like GI, cards, pulm/cc, heme/onc). A survey of fellowship PDs showed that university-based residency was the 4th most important criteria when selecting among applicants (behind the interview, letter from known specialist and PD letter). Source: http://connect.im.org/d/do/5434 (page 10)
 
MeatTornado said:
Great point.

To help you guys decipher the IM matches on that touro list: 5 low-tier university programs (UConn x 2, Stony Brook x 2, and Drexel) and a mid-tier program (Ohio State). The remaining 33 are community programs. This is pretty common at all DO schools (only 15-20% of IM applicants match at university programs). This can be a huge disadvantage when it comes to fellowship placement (more so in themore competitive fellowships like GI, cards, pulm/cc, heme/onc). A survey of fellowship PDs showed that university-based residency was the 4th most important criteria when selecting among applicants (behind the interview, letter from known specialist and PD letter). Source: http://connect.im.org/d/do/5434 (page 10)
Click to expand...

As you are well aware, even amongst MD graduates, where you went has an impact on of what tier IM residency you can match into. Those top tier IM residencies are quite hard to match into for your typical lower tier/State U MD Grad. Competitiveness of IM has certainly gone up in recent years.

My question for you though as this is your field is has this always been the case with IM residencies, or have they become more "selective" with top IM programs less likely to take lower tier MD grads in recent years because of the increased competition, better quality of applicants etc which allows them to be this kind of selective? In other words, has there been a general mentality of "we just clearly prefer/want grads from top schools vs lower tier ones" at top IM programs that's always been apparent, or is it a more recent phenomenon that's getting more and more pronounced? I guess I am interested to know if even when IM was clearly less competitive it would still be this kind of uphill battle for a lower tier MD grad to match into a top IM program as we see now.

While we're at it, do you know if there are lower/mid tier IM programs that used to consider DO's but in recent years have changed their policy and no longer do. If this is true it could also potentially highlight increased competition making IM programs more selective in terms of wholl they screen out.
 
GrapesofRath said:
As you are well aware, even amongst MD graduates, where you went has an impact on of what tier IM residency you can match into. Those top tier IM residencies are quite hard to match into for your typical lower tier/State U MD Grad. Competitiveness of IM has certainly gone up in recent years.

My question for you though as this is your field is has this always been the case with IM residencies, or have they become more "selective" with top IM programs less likely to take lower tier MD grads in recent years because of the increased competition, better quality of applicants etc which allows them to be this kind of selective? In other words, has there been a general mentality of "we just clearly prefer/want grads from top schools vs lower tier ones" at top IM programs that's always been apparent, or is it a more recent phenomenon that's getting more and more pronounced? I guess I am interested to know if even when IM was clearly less competitive it would still be this kind of uphill battle for a lower tier MD grad to match into a top IM program as we see now.

While we're at it, do you know if there are lower/mid tier IM programs that used to consider DO's but in recent years have changed their policy and no longer do. If this is true it could also potentially highlight increased competition making IM programs more selective in terms of wholl they screen out.
Click to expand...

The whole field of IM has become more competitive and selective. Med students are a risk-averse and pragmatic bunch. The students who had been going to fields like anesthesia and radiology started looking to IM subspecialties as the job market in those fields began to tighten. Gen surg has also been getting less popular because of lifestyle considerations though those applicants tend to go less to IM. Just go scan the match lists of Top 20 US MD schools and you'll find these trends on full display. Only a handful going into anesthesia and radiology and dozens flocking to IM. As a consequence it is getting harder for those who aren't at top US MD schools to break into top IM programs. You really have to have a stellar application. There's a continuum from there on down with mid-tier programs catching some of those applicants who couldn't quite crack the top tier. Go look at this year's IM match results thread to get an idea.

Off the top of my head I think maybe Temple and LIJ have stopped taking DOs into their IM programs recently. None of the top tier programs consider DOs and only a handful of mid-tier programs do. They tend to be in less desirable locations.
 
Why has nobody asked the golden question? What state are you a resident of? If you live in florida, kentucky or some other easy state you have a great shot of getting in. If you live in CA then the conversation completely changes.
 
rzoo14 said:
Maybe it's just me but why apply DO if you weren't 100% committed?

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A big part of the reason why many commit for DO is because they are told time and time again that they can do and go wherever they desire through a DO school as long as they work hard. Of course academic leadership from DO programs are going to state this (why would they say "choices here are limited" in the first place) and a such, many no longer question it, and take the leap.

This is why I think it's absolutely essential for those considering the DO route to know the 100% truth as to what doors are open and closed. Obviously, these opportunities change over time but one should know what is going on NOW and not have the beat around the bush answer.
 
Dang your stats are killer @BryanBeid . any reason as to why you dont think you got in? Is it because you applied to too high/too tiers like Stanford Harvard hopkins etc.? Just curious...
 
You are being given a chance that thousands of people would drop 1k on the deposit at the drop of a hat. If you think DO restricts you to primary care then you have never been in the hospital setting. There is Dos in every specialty, is it harder to get in as a DO? some would argue yes but i dont see every MD specializing. The only thing that restricts as a DO is you own self motivation to do well.
 
Dr.Jekyll75 said:
You are being given a chance that thousands of people would drop 1k on the deposit at the drop of a hat. If you think DO restricts you to primary care then you have never been in the hospital setting. There is Dos in every specialty, is it harder to get in as a DO? some would argue yes but i dont see every MD specializing. The only thing that restricts as a DO is you own self motivation to do well.
Click to expand...
Preach
 
Dr.Jekyll75 said:
You are being given a chance that thousands of people would drop 1k on the deposit at the drop of a hat. If you think DO restricts you to primary care then you have never been in the hospital setting. There is Dos in every specialty, is it harder to get in as a DO? some would argue yes but i dont see every MD specializing. The only thing that restricts as a DO is you own self motivation to do well.
Click to expand...



this is just not true.
 
Medschoolornah said:
this is just not true.
Click to expand...
Which part? Lol. He said it may be harder to get certain specialties as a DO, but not impossible, and entirely dependent on the individual. I don't see how that can be considered "not true." Just look at the match this year. There is no DO that can't get a residency or specialty simply because they are a DO.
 
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