Go to Midwestern Glendale Dental and get $520,000 in student loans!

[MatCauthon]

Using the numbers on their website for the dental school program:
1. Total 4 year tuition plus fees: $344,510
2. Cost of living on a thrifty budget: $86,611
3. Total cost: $431,211 without interest (That is $107,802 per year, on a "thrifty budget" lol, which I will plug into the compound interest calculator)
4. Total cost with accrued interest on non-subsidized loans, factoring in 6-month grace period(6.8%):
year one: 35,774
year two: 26,412
year three: 17,661
year four: 9,480
Total added interest fees: $89,327

Total 4-year cost with interest on a thrifty budget (not accounting yearly tuition increases): $520,538

The 20-year student loan payment for a debt of $520,528 is $3,967 per month. Even wealthy dentists are going to have to go on IBR to pay off that kind of debt.

I guess you guys can justify that cost by "great labs, facilities, and equipment" but that is just a ridiculous number.

The only thing holding up this whole pyramid is the government-backed student loans. The kool-aid drinkers in this thread can lie to themselves, but they will be shedding a few tears when they have to deal with their first loan payments after graduation/residency.

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[SM555]

You have way too much time on your hands during finals week

 

[rendal]

Why did you choose to specifically single out Midwestern Glendale? You can say the same thing about any private school and throw out similar, even higher, numbers. It seems like you have something personal against Midwestern University in particular.

We are all adults and understand that the cost of a dental school education is an investment. Some people may go to more expensive schools and take a longer time to pay off their loans, but they will eventually pay it off, and those of us that care more about being healthcare providers than making a boatload of money after graduating will find it well worth it.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Why did you choose to specifically single out Midwestern Glendale? You can say the same thing about any private school and throw out similar, even higher, numbers. It seems like you have something personal against Midwestern University in particular.

We are all adults and understand that the cost of a dental school education is an investment. Some people may go to more expensive schools and take a longer time to pay off their loans, but they will eventually pay it off, and those of us that care more about being healthcare providers than making a boatload of money after graduating will find it well worth it.

This. So much this. All this whining is stupid.

 

[Tmoneymaj]

I interviewed at UT-memphis as an out of state student and the estimated yearly cost is 107K without living expenses . Those of us without an instate school don't have much of an option when trying to save money and choosing schools. Not to mention the students that only received an acceptance from there. I'm unsure why you decided to single out MWU but before you go calling out one specific school I would check other's before you make yourself look stupid. Any private school is going to make you rack up extremely large loans, not just MWU.

 

[Kef318]

Finally some sense comes to this thread.

 

[Daneosaurus]

Dental school is expensive, and will get more so. You will have loans from it. You will be able to pay back those loans. I would much rather have $400x10^3 debt and dentist income than not be a dentist.

 

[CraigHack]

ITT: People who drink the Kool-aid.

All snark aside, these kinds of threads are a reminder of the fiscal burden of a dental education. I think for a lot of people in this forum, they don't really have the life experiences to fully appreciate what this kind of debt means. I don't think the appropriate response is to call him/her greedy or whiny. This person is correct in pointing out that there are people who are going to regret their choices after they finish school and have to start paying their bills. Sure, you can point at other schools that are just as bad, or worse (I'm looking at you, USC), but I fail to see how this discredits the entire message.

 

[StumpMT]

Dental school is expensive, and will get more so. You will have loans from it. You will be able to pay back those loans. I would much rather have $400x10^3 debt and dentist income than not be a dentist.

Are you sure that's the correct number of significant figures? I think it should be $4.0 x 10^5 😉

 

[rendal]

ITT: People who drink the Kool-aid.

All snark aside, these kinds of threads are a reminder of the fiscal burden of a dental education. I think for a lot of people in this forum, they don't really have the life experiences to fully appreciate what this kind of debt means. I don't think the appropriate response is to call him/her greedy or whiny. This person is correct in pointing out that there are people who are going to regret their choices after they finish school and have to start paying their bills. Sure, you can point at other schools that are just as bad, or worse (I'm looking at you, USC), but I fail to see how this discredits the entire message.

The message that some people will regret taking out so many loans is certainly true. The thread just comes off more like "Don't go to Midwestern, this school is a ripoff" than "Consider the costs before choosing a school."

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

The question really comes down to the ethics of the dental school business and the sales pitch. How ethical is it to encourage students to go to a school like MWU where students will drown in debt when the best advice the representative of the school can give is to go to the cheapest school. This is something that the dean at Minnesota University honestly tells the kids interviewing, to go to the cheapest school.

 

[Kef318]

Yeah, just like the Mercedes-Benz dealer is going to tell you to buy a Kia...the consumer of any product needs to be well-informed. It's not an ethical question--that's business. The responsibility is with the consumer.

 

[Beargryllz]

Just HPSP it if you're honestly that worried

Get the same education for $0.00, no interest, and no loan payments.

Or you could do IBR/PSLF/PAYE and pay a pittance of your salary for a few years

 

[jeffk805dent]

Just HPSP/PSLF/PAYE/IBR it if you're honestly that worried

Get the same education for $0.00, no interest, and no loan payments

granted I am a recently graduated dentist but it cracks me up people think that getting HPSP is as easy as a free lunch. If it was that simple everybody would not be complaining about the loans.

 

[Realitydentalstudent]

Yeah, just like the Mercedes-Benz dealer is going to tell you to buy a Kia...the consumer of any product needs to be well-informed. It's not an ethical question--that's business. The responsibility is with the consumer.

But the consumer is usually a 22 year old with no real world experience.

 

[Beargryllz]

granted I am a recently graduated dentist but it cracks me up people think that getting HPSP is as easy as a free lunch. If it was that simple everybody would not be complaining about the loans.

I applied for it and got it. It was very easy to apply for. I opted against taking it in any case.

The hardest part was at MEPS where they made me stand up from some kind of convoluted seiza-like position

 

[jeffk805dent]

I applied for it and got it. It was very easy to apply for. I opted against taking it in any case.

The hardest part was at MEPS where they made me stand up from some kind of convoluted seiza-like position

I see. what I also meant to say is that military is not for everyone, some have family obligations and others cant handle the military atmosphere. Its like kind of saying that some dental students could never handle being in the setting of a neurosurgery/OB-GYN operating room.

kudos to you, I'm thinking of the NHSC/IHS route since I want to avoid the associate/private practice altogether since its going downhill imo, though I would be open to a group practice should it ever rise.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

granted I am a recently graduated dentist but it cracks me up people think that getting HPSP is as easy as a free lunch. If it was that simple everybody would not be complaining about the loans.

to be honest, it was easier to get it while we were in conflicts around the world, bc let's face it--no one wants to get deployed. it started getting really competitive only as of a few years ago when things started to draw down.

it's gotten to the point where i know people with higher stats than me who haven't gotten it. times are changin'

 

[tbiv21]

to be honest, it was easier to get it while we were in conflicts around the world, bc let's face it--no one wants to get deployed. it started getting really competitive only as of a few years ago when things started to draw down.

it's gotten to the point where i know people with higher stats than me who haven't gotten it. times are changin'

Yeah, it definitely helps to apply early if one is interested. I know not everyone knows about it when they first apply to d school or realize how much school is really going to cost and when they decide to apply it is too late. My army recruiter said they are being a lot more selective in who they even let through to boards so more people don't even make it to the decision makers' hands

 

[MatCauthon]

The point of this thread was not to single out a school. I actually ran it because someone was complaining about the high costs of osteopathic education at Midwestern. The dental costs struck me. Most pre-dental students do not appreciate how much of their tuition total will go to appreciating loans.

Also, I did not factor in additional costs of grad plus loans (currently 7.2%) or loan origination fees (grad plus is currently over 4%).

I am not a dentist or pre-dental so I could care less about Midwestern. The main point is pointing out the extreme costs whether they come from Midwestern or another high cost school. I'm sure you guys won't take this debt so lightly once you graduate. The whole tuition thing is a charade right-now and it is game perpetuated by the US government.

 

[ciruji]

520k is an investment? lol

 

[studentdent110]

Wow, I can't even imagine being this much in debt. This upsets me because pre-dents who will be attending private schools don't deserve this. Makes you question whether or not dental school is even worth it. You're giving up 4 years of your life. For what? You shouldn't have to bust your a** for many more years of your life to dig yourself out of a hole that big!

 

[MatCauthon]

Wow, I can't even imagine being this much in debt. This upsets me because pre-dents who will be attending private schools don't deserve this. Makes you question whether or not dental school is even worth it. You're giving up 4 years of your life. For what? You shouldn't have to bust your a** for many more years of your life to dig yourself out of a hole that big!

People expect that IBR is going to magically wipe out their student loans. There is going to be huge IBR changes once surgeons start trying to erase their $400k debt using PSLF. That should be happening in the next 2-3 years.
We'll see what happens. It is a huge gamble to take. 520k is just too high and limits many opportunities. If I were a dental student I would consider postponing a year, moving to a state with a cheap state school, and network like crazy to try to get into that school. Probably easier said than done, but I've seen it happen many times at the State medical school and dental school (I work for an academic hospital).

 

[deleted390966]

If I were a dental student I would consider postponing a year, moving to a state with a cheap state school, and network like crazy to try to get into that school. Probably easier said than done, but I've seen it happen many times at the State medical school and dental school (I work for an academic hospital).

😱

 

[jeffk805dent]

People expect that IBR is going to magically wipe out their student loans. There is going to be huge IBR changes once surgeons start trying to erase their $400k debt using PSLF. That should be happening in the next 2-3 years.
We'll see what happens. It is a huge gamble to take. 520k is just too high and limits many opportunities. If I were a dental student I would consider postponing a year, moving to a state with a cheap state school, and network like crazy to try to get into that school. Probably easier said than done, but I've seen it happen many times at the State medical school and dental school (I work for an academic hospital).

520k makes my 440k after graduating dental school looks puny in comparison). Like you, I am skeptical of IBR but its really the only way most students with these loans can pay off anything.

With that said there can be many things that can happen in the future besides the removal of IBR:

1.) dental salaries could drop - posing a bigger problem for grads who need some pay off to live and pay off loans

2.) corporate dentistry puts a salary cap on how much you can earn

3.) higher taxes in the future

4.) become like pharmacy and see some grads have difficulty finding jobs, what is the government going to do when the grad cant pay, unlike a house they cant just take it.

 

[deleted390966]

I am skeptical of IBR but its really the only way most students with these loans can pay off anything

I've heard that with IBR, the remaining amount (after 20 years?) is taxed so it will be a monstrous accumulated amount... so I'm not sure if IBR is even a good choice... 🙁

 

[jeffk805dent]

I've heard that with IBR, the remaining amount (after 20 years?) is taxed so it will be a monstrous accumulated amount... so I'm not sure if IBR is even a good choice... 🙁

IBR works best if you're in a career that has difficulty paying loans. IBR works against you if you have a SO that makes a ton too, though with this you can ask the SO to help pay down loans unless he or she has huge loans to deal with.

A financially smart person will save up for the tax bomb, only problem is we dont know if taxes will raise or lower (hopefully) in the future.

 

[deleted390966]

The taxable remaining amount under IBR plan is not a problem to you? How about Pay As You Earn plan? I'm trying to be as informed as possible about these options...

 

[jeffk805dent]

The taxable remaining amount under IBR plan is not a concern to you? How about Pay As You Earn plan?

I dont know much of the Pay As You Earn plan so I cant comment on that but the taxable amount will always be a concern for me. I wonder what happens if you pay the minimal amount in IBR till age 70, do they garnish your social security savings?

 

[deleted390966]

Yeah, so much I don't know about these plans. I wish there were a website that details all about them.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Yeah, so much I don't know about these plans. I wish there were a website that details all about them.

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLo...epaymentEstimator.action#view-repayment-plans

I must warn you, depending on the debt seeing some of these numbers can get depressing

 

[deleted390966]

I know that calculator. But it doesn't tell me the taxable amount I'll have to pay after 20 years. lol

 

[jeffk805dent]

I know that calculator. But it doesn't tell me the taxable amount I'll have to pay after 20 years. lol

I'll try to find a link where someone did a sample of a tax bomb calculation if I can but its all hypotheticals right now, which is for many of us on here because if stuff gets real bad we cant just go "screw it, I'll switch to computer science" once you start your dental career.

as I've mentioned before, government should really give complete loan forgiveness to people working in public service not the art major painting his "struggles" and displaying at an art convention.

 

[mkhan27]

Isn't USC somewhere up there in costs as well. If I can recall they were like $120k a year.

 

[Tmoneymaj]

The tuition cost as an OOS student for multiple state schools are just as high.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Those of us without an instate school don't have much of an option when trying to save money and choosing schools.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't students without an in-state school have special consideration as in-state applicants with nearby state schools?

 

[Daneosaurus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't students without an in-state school have special consideration as in-state applicants with nearby state schools?

Not all of them