Going Caribbean Route

[Prettypuff1]

Hey all,

Just looking for a little advice. I am considering caribbean medical schools as my route in. My uGPA is about a 2.5 ( Chemistry), science GPA of 3.0 with some difficulties during the school year. I have an MS in Biology( thesis based) with a 3.6 GPA and a year of PhD Credits( Pharmacology at a D-1 School) at 3.7. I have been NIH funded and an author on a poster and publication. My phd program was through a medical school, and I got A's in the clinical classes. I am an URM, african american female. MCAT diagnostic is 30.. and im hoping to get that score up.

It would take 90 CH to get my uGPA over 3.0 with out factoring grad grades. That is forever considering I wanted to matriculate at 31 and i need to work, so that would be 6 years going part time.

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

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[JourneyAgent]

Hey all,

Just looking for a little advice. I am considering caribbean medical schools as my route in. My uGPA is about a 2.5 ( Chemistry), science GPA of 3.0 with some difficulties during the school year. I have an MS in Biology( thesis based) with a 3.6 GPA and a year of PhD Credits( Pharmacology at a D-1 School) at 3.7. I have been NIH funded and an author on a poster and publication. My phd program was through a medical school, and I got A's in the clinical classes. I am an URM, african american female. MCAT diagnostic is 30.. and im hoping to get that score up.

It would take 90 CH to get my uGPA over 3.0 with out factoring grad grades. That is forever considering I wanted to matriculate at 31 and i need to work, so that would be 6 years going part time.

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

Prettypuff (that's a fun name to say),

Caribbean schools are absolute last resorts. Incidentally they are in some cases precariously placed resorts in very poor developing countries. The experience of those who have successfully navigated that route will lie to you. The brochures will lie to you. The person at the booth doesn't have to lay out several hundred large for a possibility of going without in the match.

It used to be more viable. But there is a bottleneck in the works over the next couple of years. American DO schools have grown their numbers drastically. MD schools have increased theirs as well. You'll be competing for a far more limited category of spots against the brightest docs from around the world. Some already practicing physicians.

You may feel very differently about that primary care idea after you lay out those long dollars for your education and learn more about the economics and daily obstacles of practicing physicians. To say nothing of the encroachment of cheaper labor.

They're shady. They'll take your money and flunk you out for the next warm body if you slip. Their clinicals are hustled for big cash in the lower end hospitals of NYC and the like. You'll be moving all over to piece together your degree. Always the new guy. The lesser one, having to prove yourself. All to get a crappier position in the residency game for mostly primary care careers.

It sucks.

Don't do it.

 

[NTF]

I'd read this thread - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=990269 - and think long and hard before seriously considering going the caribbean route. JourneyAgent is absolutely correct. Caribbean route should be a last resort. You'd be much better off using grade replacement available for DO apps to raise that GPA. Along with your URM status, a kicking MCAT score, strong LORs/ECs you could stand a shot at a DO school or URM-friendly schools like Meharry or Mercer. The distance in time from your poor ugrad performance may work in your favor if you can pull off a string of ALL A's in an informal post-bacc with DO grade replacement. Push comes to shove if the US MD/DO route doesn't look like it will happen then the high-risk caribbean route will be there.

As the thread I posted will show, even so-called "non-competitive" specialties are becoming increasingly difficult to match into for IMGs as the increase in US medical school enrollment outpaces the increase in residency spots. This trend will probably continue in the current hawkish federal budget environment. With the caribbean route you risk accumulating an enormous amount of debt without matching.

I'd recommend calling the admissions offices of some DO schools, Mercer & Meharry and laying out your app for them. Ask them for their honest assessment of you as an applicant and what would be needed to make you reasonably competitive.

Best of luck.

 

[PTPoeny]

Here is the data from the 2012 match. Read the first 14 pages or so. Yes, there are tons of doctors practicing right now who went to medical school at a caribbean school. But the trends make it look like fewer and fewer are going to be matching each year. By and large residency programs are not expanding and medical schools are exploding.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2012.pdf

Here is the fun you get to go through if you don't match:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=990269

I can only imagine what it is like to be trying to figure out how to get this all done. But how sure are you that you will be that rare student that knocks step 1 and 2 out of the park and does well on rotations when compared to students from that home program? Are you willing to chance ending up in a similar position 4 years from now trying to figure out how to get a residency?

And one random last thought as it seems as though you are doing much better in school more recently: Would grade replacement for a DO application get your GPA up faster?

 

[Woland]

Hey all,

Just looking for a little advice. I am considering caribbean medical schools as my route in. My uGPA is about a 2.5 ( Chemistry), science GPA of 3.0 with some difficulties during the school year. I have an MS in Biology( thesis based) with a 3.6 GPA and a year of PhD Credits( Pharmacology at a D-1 School) at 3.7. I have been NIH funded and an author on a poster and publication. My phd program was through a medical school, and I got A's in the clinical classes. I am an URM, african american female. MCAT diagnostic is 30.. and im hoping to get that score up.

It would take 90 CH to get my uGPA over 3.0 with out factoring grad grades. That is forever considering I wanted to matriculate at 31 and i need to work, so that would be 6 years going part time.

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

I would seriously consider US DO route. You have many things going for you already: (1) pulished/NIH funded (2) URM (DO student body can always use more diveristy, and support of diverity is part of mission for many schools) (3) high "free MCAT".

DO grade replacement will allow you to take courses you might consider needing improvement and rapidly raise GPA (no need for 90 credits -- that's nuts).

Residency bottle neck will likely kill off Carribean school is near future -- I believe that class of 2017 will already match/exceed numbers of available residency spots.

 

[K31]

I'd read this thread - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=990269 - and think long and hard before seriously considering going the caribbean route. JourneyAgent is absolutely correct. Caribbean route should be a last resort. You'd be much better off using grade replacement available for DO apps to raise that GPA. Along with your URM status, a kicking MCAT score, strong LORs/ECs you could stand a shot at a DO school or URM-friendly schools like Meharry or Mercer. The distance in time from your poor ugrad performance may work in your favor if you can pull off a string of ALL A's in an informal post-bacc with DO grade replacement. Push comes to shove if the US MD/DO route doesn't look like it will happen then the high-risk caribbean route will be there.

Agree with this--read the linked thread as we'll as this one, especially post #4 (to give some context, graduating medical students just found out on Monday whether we have matched to a residency program).

If you can kick ass on the MCAT, combined with your status as a URM, I think you have a shot somewhere--especially DO schools, which love candidates dedicated to primary care. Try everything you can to stay in the US for med school, because it is only going to get harder for foreign grads to get residency positions in the coming years.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I'd read this thread - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=990269 - and think long and hard before seriously considering going the caribbean route. JourneyAgent is absolutely correct. Caribbean route should be a last resort. You'd be much better off using grade replacement available for DO apps to raise that GPA. Along with your URM status, a kicking MCAT score, strong LORs/ECs you could stand a shot at a DO school or URM-friendly schools like Meharry or Mercer. The distance in time from your poor ugrad performance may work in your favor if you can pull off a string of ALL A's in an informal post-bacc with DO grade replacement. Push comes to shove if the US MD/DO route doesn't look like it will happen then the high-risk caribbean route will be there.

Best of luck.

I think you mean Morehouse, not Mercer. Mercer only takes Georgia residents. Meharry, Morehouse and Howard are the three historically black colleges. As you said, they would be good ones for the OP to apply to, along with DO schools and her state schools.

 

[Prettypuff1]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I think grade replacement would help a lot for my science GPA. I got C in Ogro 2 lecture and a Cs in Physics ( i wasn't trying).. I finished undergrad in 2008 with zero regard to applying further to degree programs... I also dealt with a few sick kid illnesses that landed my son in the hospital. My GPA wouldn't be terrible if it werent for a few summers of not withdrawing from classes.
I'm from Illinois, so there are about 5 schools with residency requirements.
using grade replacement and 20 credit hours at 4.0 and including Grad GPA( DO schools) will take me up to a 3.0/3.4sGPA... Im just concerned about competitveness

 

[dsoz]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I think grade replacement would help a lot for my science GPA. I got C in Ogro 2 lecture and a Cs in Physics ( i wasn't trying).. I finished undergrad in 2008 with zero regard to applying further to degree programs... I also dealt with a few sick kid illnesses that landed my son in the hospital. My GPA wouldn't be terrible if it werent for a few summers of not withdrawing from classes.
I'm from Illinois, so there are about 5 schools with residency requirements.
using grade replacement and 20 credit hours at 4.0 and including Grad GPA( DO schools) will take me up to a 3.0/3.4sGPA... Im just concerned about competitveness

If you diagnostic tested a 30 on the MCAT, you can probably get that up after a few classes retaken for grade replacement. That and 20 credits to replace grades sounds like it ought to work out great for you. That is only a year or two.

Other than your GPA, your stats sound AWESOME! You have advanced degrees, publications, research, and LIFE EXPERIENCE!!!

Research more about DO, shadow a DO, and get a DO letter of rec. You would be accepted to a DO school as good as gold if you get your GPA up just a little bit.

Don't go carib! You are worth more than that.

dsoz

 

[PTPoeny]

This is either the best or the worst week of the year to ask this question, depending on how you look at it. Getting into medical school isn't the final hurdle to becoming a doctor. You are worried about being competitive enough to get into medical school, we are worried about you going to a caribbean school and still not being able to practice medicine after you graduate in four years.

Take a year or two and do some grade replacement and I think you will have an application that will catch some people's eye. You will have to apply more broadly than someone with a 4.0/40 but your life experience combined with strong recent grades should appeal to some schools.

 

[Prettypuff1]

This is either the best or the worst week of the year to ask this question, depending on how you look at it. Getting into medical school isn't the final hurdle to becoming a doctor. You are worried about being competitive enough to get into medical school, we are worried about you going to a caribbean school and still not being able to practice medicine after you graduate in four years.

Take a year or two and do some grade replacement and I think you will have an application that will catch some people's eye. You will have to apply more broadly than someone with a 4.0/40 but your life experience combined with strong recent grades should appeal to some schools.

I am definitely willing to apply broadly, with a large # of schools. Originally my plan was to take the next year and do some course work to stay spry in the field and improve GPA.

I was looking down in the Residency forums and now I have gotten concerned about the step1/step2 results and that's concerning as well.It's not that i havent looked but mostly I have been wondering if i can even start the process.

 

[thepoopologist]

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

Judging by the ERAS thread, they shouldn't even be last resorts anymore. It is simply a horrible return on investment to go through an island school having passed all classes and all boards and not match into specialties like FM, psych, and peds. The goal is residency, not the initials. As much as I disliked my experience, I can't deny that even the worst DO residencies I've seen had FM residents getting $300,000/year offers in Alaska for what is really 6 months of work, IM residents getting $180,000/year hospitalist jobs working 14 ten hour shifts a month, Cardiology fellows getting $340,000/year working 4 days/week with no call.

You can't pay off debt without those types of salaries, and you can't get those salaries without residency. Be practical.

 

[NTF]

I think you mean Morehouse, not Mercer. Mercer only takes Georgia residents. Meharry, Morehouse and Howard are the three historically black colleges. As you said, they would be good ones for the OP to apply to, along with DO schools and her state schools.

My bad. Thanks for correcting my misinformation. I was just typing off the top of my head.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

Please. Please think long and hard before making this decision. I'd try and improve grades, do your best on MCAT and shoot for DO. Don't get in first cycle, then find out what deficits are and address them and re-apply DO. With the way Match competitiveness is increasing, Caribbean is an absolute....absolute....last resort.

 

[Goro]

You can do better than Carribean. All you need for that is to have a pulse and be able to write an up-front tuition check.

Simply re-take any science courses where you had an f/D/C. AACOMAS grade replacement does wonder for your cGPA, and only the newer better grades count. With that, and a decent MCAT performance, you're fine for any DO program. Your MS and PhD GPAs will be viewed on how close they are to a typical pre-med or medical school biology course. ie, Biochemi is biochem pretty much anywhere, but "Microbiology Lab Techniques" doesn't quite have the same rigor.

And most medical schools will cut you some slack for being an URM, because, frankly, we need more URM doctors!

Hey all,

Just looking for a little advice. I am considering caribbean medical schools as my route in. My uGPA is about a 2.5 ( Chemistry), science GPA of 3.0 with some difficulties during the school year. I have an MS in Biology( thesis based) with a 3.6 GPA and a year of PhD Credits( Pharmacology at a D-1 School) at 3.7. I have been NIH funded and an author on a poster and publication. My phd program was through a medical school, and I got A's in the clinical classes. I am an URM, african american female. MCAT diagnostic is 30.. and im hoping to get that score up.

It would take 90 CH to get my uGPA over 3.0 with out factoring grad grades. That is forever considering I wanted to matriculate at 31 and i need to work, so that would be 6 years going part time.

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I took classes FT while working FT... it's about the same amount of work as med school... if you can do it and get As do it... I did, and I took ~70cr in 2.5yrs or something... it's doable... don't go Carib unless it is your only option...

 

[Textbookversion]

Hey all,

Just looking for a little advice. I am considering caribbean medical schools as my route in. My uGPA is about a 2.5 ( Chemistry), science GPA of 3.0 with some difficulties during the school year. I have an MS in Biology( thesis based) with a 3.6 GPA and a year of PhD Credits( Pharmacology at a D-1 School) at 3.7. I have been NIH funded and an author on a poster and publication. My phd program was through a medical school, and I got A's in the clinical classes. I am an URM, african american female. MCAT diagnostic is 30.. and im hoping to get that score up.

It would take 90 CH to get my uGPA over 3.0 with out factoring grad grades. That is forever considering I wanted to matriculate at 31 and i need to work, so that would be 6 years going part time.

With that said, Im considering caribbean medical schools. My interests are lie in everyday general practice and so for me perhaps going caribbean is a decent route for me..

Thoughts?

DO schools are desperate for URMs. With a 30 on the MCAT I'm not even sure you'd need to retake those classes (though it's not a bad idea).

 

[Esquire]

.

 

[kimposibl]

My vet has a DVM from Ross. He has his own practice here in San Diego.... But OP, you have a great chance at an MD within US so idk why you'd consider Caribbean....

 

[Prettypuff1]

You can do better than Carribean. All you need for that is to have a pulse and be able to write an up-front tuition check.

Simply re-take any science courses where you had an f/D/C. AACOMAS grade replacement does wonder for your cGPA, and only the newer better grades count. With that, and a decent MCAT performance, you're fine for any DO program. Your MS and PhD GPAs will be viewed on how close they are to a typical pre-med or medical school biology course. ie, Biochemi is biochem pretty much anywhere, but "Microbiology Lab Techniques" doesn't quite have the same rigor.

And most medical schools will cut you some slack for being an URM, because, frankly, we need more URM doctors!

Hi
Most of my ms classes were cross listed with undergrad classes. I had biochem, genetics, cell bio, immunology and micro. Very straightforward. I have a couple research methods classes on there but that's minority. I have neuropharmacology course from my phd that's like the med school but less clinical.

 

[Prettypuff1]

I would be more worried about being in the middle of a PhD program and applying for medical school. It raises a flag in terms of commitment and motivation. If you are jumping from a PhD to medical school (or have dropped out of one) the adcom may question on commitment.

I wondered how it would look. But I am leaving because getting the phd will be a huge mistake. I would end up applying to med school when I finished and I would still need to complete the science course retakes (3classes). I like research but not to the level that you need to get a phd. I figured that by finishing strongly in my classes will show that I am able and I can explain commitment.

 

[Prettypuff1]

I wonder if the OP is trolling. Why would a black applicant hitting 30 on her practice MCAT be worried or even consider offshore schools? According to AMCAS, 67% of black applicants with a 24-25 MCAT are accepted to allopathic schools.

I'm not trolling. I'm just concerned. All the threads here about the difficulty of overcoming a low uGPA can shake ones confidence. Hitting a 30 is good but I'm just concerned of that's enough given the applicant pool.

 

[sazerac]

I'm not trolling. I'm just concerned. All the threads here about the difficulty of overcoming a low uGPA can shake ones confidence. Hitting a 30 is good but I'm just concerned of that's enough given the applicant pool.

If you have academic adversity and it keeps you from getting into a US medical school, then you will have no job in US medicine.

At that point you can either improve your academics and get into a US medical school (MD or DO, either is fine, and it's easier to improve your GPA quickly on a DO application), or you can matriculate in the Caribbean. If you go to the Caribbean you will be hundreds of thousands of dollars poorer and still have no job in US medicine.

 

[Prettypuff1]

If you have academic adversity and it keeps you from getting into a US medical school, then you will have no job in US medicine.

At that point you can either improve your academics and get into a US medical school (MD or DO, either is fine, and it's easier to improve your GPA quickly on a DO application), or you can matriculate in the Caribbean. If you go to the Caribbean you will be hundreds of thousands of dollars poorer and still have no job in US medicine.

I'm still going to take some UG credits and apply don't get me wrong. I was more a moment of lack of confidence. I think we all have them and just needed a little encouragement to push through. I have no doubt that medicine is for me I just need a little boost.

 

[flyhi]

My vet has a DVM from Ross. He has his own practice here in San Diego.... But OP, you have a great chance at an MD within US so idk why you'd consider Caribbean....

VERY big difference between Caribbean vet schools and med schools. Ross is accredited by the AVMA, so it is exactly like graduating from a US school. Even when it was not, you do not need a residency to work as a vet

To the OP, do you really want to be 300k in debt with no guarantee of a residency?

 

[RHeff]

I would be more worried about being in the middle of a PhD program and applying for medical school. It raises a flag in terms of commitment and motivation. If you are jumping from a PhD to medical school (or have dropped out of one) the adcom may question on commitment.

I left a PhD program (as well as my job) to begin the postbacc work to apply to medical school. My PhD would have been in a completely different field, and since I didn't take the classes earlier in my academic career, I decided - after consulting with a few admissions folks - that I would get more questions if I went through with finishing my PhD after I made the decision to quit my job and commit myself to applying to medical school.

 

[survivordo]

To continue with the theme, seriously, no Carribean. Go US or go home. You would be better off becoming a PA, NP or CRNA (or DDS, OT, PT, DPT, etc) rather than taking that risk. Think about it. How do you recover from 300k of unforgivable debt with no opportunity to practice. Answer: you don't. That would seriously frig up your life for the long haul.

Survivor DO

 

[flyhi]

To continue with the theme, seriously, no Carribean. Go US or go home. You would be better off becoming a PA, NP or CRNA (or DDS, OT, PT, DPT, etc)

Or DPM

 

[88845]

The 2013 NRMP Data report (check table 4 here) displays your prospects as a USIMG. Only 53% of active applicants matched this year - considering that pre-matching was done away with for the first time this year this should be very alarming for you as many believed the USIMG match rate for active applicants would be closer to 65% or more (I'm also keeping in mind the general increase in the number of PGY1 slots, overall). Keep in mind, many people focus merely on the active applicant USIMG match rate but that doesn't tell the whole story - the match rate this year of all USIMG applicants was 2706/6882 and was, therefore, only 39%. Those who withdrew or did not submit a rank order list most likely did not receive any interviews. Furthermore, there were 981 more US Allopathic senior applicants this year (e.g. 17,856) compared to last year (e.g. 16,875) - what does this tell you?

I know it may be tempting for you to start immediately in a Caribbean program but you will be putting yourself and your family at great financial peril if you can't match even for one year. You owe it to yourself to work on your application further and get a spot in a US program (MD or DO) - your patience and efforts will pay dividends. I strongly feel that you can pull it off based on the info you've shared about yourself. Best of luck to you!

 

[Law2Doc]

The 2013 NRMP Data report (check table 4 here) displays your prospects as a USIMG. Only 53% of active applicants matched this year - considering that pre-matching was done away with for the first time this year this should be very alarming for you as many believed the USIMG match rate for active applicants would be closer to 65% or more (I'm also keeping in mind the general increase in the number of PGY1 slots, overall). Keep in mind, many people focus merely on the active applicant USIMG match rate but that doesn't tell the whole story - the match rate this year of all USIMG applicants was 2706/6882 and was, therefore, only 39%. Those who withdrew or did not submit a rank order list most likely did not receive any interviews. Furthermore, there were 981 more US Allopathic senior applicants this year (e.g. 17,856) compared to last year (e.g. 16,875) - what does this tell you?

I know it may be tempting for you to start immediately in a Caribbean program but you will be putting yourself and your family at great financial peril if you can't match even for one year. You owe it to yourself to work on your application further and get a spot in a US program (MD or DO) - your patience and efforts will pay dividends. I strongly feel that you can pull it off based on the info you've shared about yourself. Best of luck to you!

Agreed. You don't have to be a math genius to see that USIMGs did pretty badly this year, and are on a course to do even worse the next few years. The posts on the SOAP threads on the Gen Res board are pretty telling.

 

[Prettypuff1]

I am going to put off applying until 2014 application cycle for 2015 entrance. I plan to take it pretty slowly.. MCAT in August( i want to study now while I am not taking post bacc credits). finishing about 20hrs of credits. I have an issue with some post bacc programs because my masters( more along the lines of professional) has Upper division sciences in them. Then apply.

I have a job lined up as an ER scribe, and i am looking to add in another hospital or research position( cuz im broke)..