Going to consecutive organic chemistry lectures

[LawNonTrad]

---

Members don't see this ad.

So I'm taking organic chemistry I in the fall. The lecture meets on MWF mornings. There is one other section of it being taught by what is thought to be a better professor and this other section is also on MWF, in the same building. It ends 10 minutes before my lecture starts. I'm worried about organic, so even though the sections use different books (the section I'm in uses Carey, the other uses McMurry), I was thinking that I would attend both lectures back-to-back every MWF (except on days where one or both of the lectures has an exam, obviously). I'll only do the homework (which is optional anyway) for my own section, but I figure that I can attend the early class to get a broad conceptual base for the organic material, and then really hunker down in my own section while taking copious amounts of notes.

It's possible that one section may get ahead or behind of the other, because they are using different texts, after all, but organic tends to be taught sequentially anyway from what I understand, so I think that this might be helpful in earning a better organic grade in my own lecture.

Advantages?

Disadvantages?

Stupidity?

I just know from my own experience that I tend to understand material a lot better the second time through.

And before you guys tell me to switch into the other section with the better prof, it's already overloaded by 5 students and the school won't let any more switch in. The lecture halls are enormous though (seats for 250-300 while only ~150 students per section), so I will still be able to find a seat in the earlier lecture.

 

[cfx]

So I'm taking organic chemistry I in the fall. The lecture meets on MWF mornings. There is one other section of it being taught by what is thought to be a better professor and this other section is also on MWF, in the same building. It ends 10 minutes before my lecture starts. I'm worried about organic, so even though the sections use different books (the section I'm in uses Carey, the other uses McMurry), I was thinking that I would attend both lectures back-to-back every MWF (except on days where one or both of the lectures has an exam, obviously). I'll only do the homework (which is optional anyway) for my own section, but I figure that I can attend the early class to get a broad conceptual base for the organic material, and then really hunker down in my own section while taking copious amounts of notes.

It's possible that one section may get ahead or behind of the other, because they are using different texts, after all, but organic tends to be taught sequentially anyway from what I understand, so I think that this might be helpful in earning a better organic grade in my own lecture.

Advantages?

Disadvantages?

Stupidity?

I just know from my own experience that I tend to understand material a lot better the second time through.

And before you guys tell me to switch into the other section with the better prof, it's already overloaded by 5 students and the school won't let any more switch in. The lecture halls are enormous though (seats for 250-300 while only ~150 students per section), so I will still be able to find a seat in the earlier lecture.

I actually just got a little excited when I saw a new LawNonTrad thread pop up.

I've thought about doing stuff like this in the past, and usually make it through all of one class before I give it up. If you have the stamina to sit through two sequential hours of ochem and you're concerned enough about it that you think it's necessary, I don't see how it can be anything but helpful.

The advantages would be the obvious: twice the exposure to the material, repetition, the same material taught with different approaches, etc.

The disadvantages would be that it may be mind-numbing, and since they are following different texts, the classes very well may not be in synch.

BTW, there will undoubtedly be students dropping the class, so you might have an easier time switching in than you think.

 

[nycfuture2013]

I think you'd probably be better off begging the professor to let you in. As the guy above me said, people will drop. Plus, at my school at least, the professor can usually let a few new kids in even if there's a ranked wait list.

 

[Quaero]

Attend both if you can, but seriously, you don't need to do this do well in ochem. Simple reactions aside, you will need to memorize the catalysts, which won't make any sense until you understand their MOs (not taught in ochem ).

Going to both lectures may help you memorize these reactions, but who knows? 😛

 

[Barcu]

So I'm taking organic chemistry I in the fall. The lecture meets on MWF mornings. There is one other section of it being taught by what is thought to be a better professor and this other section is also on MWF, in the same building. It ends 10 minutes before my lecture starts. I'm worried about organic, so even though the sections use different books (the section I'm in uses Carey, the other uses McMurry), I was thinking that I would attend both lectures back-to-back every MWF (except on days where one or both of the lectures has an exam, obviously). I'll only do the homework (which is optional anyway) for my own section, but I figure that I can attend the early class to get a broad conceptual base for the organic material, and then really hunker down in my own section while taking copious amounts of notes.

It's possible that one section may get ahead or behind of the other, because they are using different texts, after all, but organic tends to be taught sequentially anyway from what I understand, so I think that this might be helpful in earning a better organic grade in my own lecture.

Advantages?

Disadvantages?

Stupidity?

I just know from my own experience that I tend to understand material a lot better the second time through.

And before you guys tell me to switch into the other section with the better prof, it's already overloaded by 5 students and the school won't let any more switch in. The lecture halls are enormous though (seats for 250-300 while only ~150 students per section), so I will still be able to find a seat in the earlier lecture.

Attending two lectures with different teachers and different books could probably get a bit confusing. Teachers may want to order or emphasize concepts differently, or the books may order chapters differently (check out the books first). In my Ochem class, we did some chapters out of order (not sure if that's common or not).

The best option may be to create an out of class study group so you can go over the material multiple times. That's what really helped me get through Ochem.

I don't disagree with your plan. But, it may be time-consuming and ultimately unhelpful. You can certainly try it out for a bit and see if it is working for you. If so, keep on doing it. It may be very beneficial if it really does give you an opportunity to really engage the material. However, it may not work out that perfectly.

 

[Barcu]

And definitely keep up with the optional homework. Practice, practice, practice leads to success in Ochem.

 

[integralx2]

Attend both if you can, but seriously, you don't need to do this do well in ochem. Simple reactions aside, you will need to memorize the catalysts, which won't make any sense until you understand their MOs (not taught in ochem ).

Going to both lectures may help you memorize these reactions, but who knows? 😛

What do you mean MOs ? I dont know what that is short for 🙂.

 

[Waggles]

What do you mean MOs ? I dont know what that is short for 🙂.

MO= Molecular Orbital

 

[RadioCure]

I think you're better off dedicating the time to studying on your own and with other people. The best way to figure out o-chem is to sit down with it and do problems.

 

[Moosecakes]

I think you're better off dedicating the time to studying on your own and with other people. The best way to figure out o-chem is to sit down with it and do problems.

Agreed.
And I'm on the last chapter of McMurry's o chem w/ biological applications, seriously LOVE this book.

 

[SRRose]

For what its worth (crazy or not) I would go to both. I don't think the extra exposure can hurt.

 

[iwantMD]

Organic Chemistry was my favorite. Crack the code and you will realize it is not at all memorization except for some parts, contrary to popular opinion.

 

[TTigers70]

I would be wary of sitting through two consecutive lectures. My school ran 3 different lectures all taught by the same professors and essentially on the same pace/flow. Even within the different lecture sections there were discrepancies on what was emphasized and later put on the exam. Orgo can seem like an unsurmountable task but really looking back on it, it isn't too bad at all. The most important thing is PRACTICE. That means really practicing, not looking at the questions and doing the first few logical steps in your head and moving on because you think you could get it right. That is actually a trap a lot of people seem to fall in (at least from my experiences). The more you write steps out -- weather it be for reactions, configurations, etc -- the better it will stick. Also, orgo is dynamic in that it will give you a 101 tools to approach a problem and it will be your choice how to proceed. PRACTICE. I thought this was one of the cooler things about the class but some people dislike not having one simple absolute answer.

If you have the time to make it to the second lecture, maybe sit in the back and do practice problems while you listen to the lecture in the background. I think hearing the same kind of lecture twice in a 2-3 hour span will definitely get boring for the easier concepts (nomenclature...). PRACTICE. Your ears will perk up if the lecturer touches on an area you do not feel to comfortable with. Even then, you sometimes need to give your mind some time to soak things in before you will even know you understand it. PRACTICE.

Give your actual professor a chance. PRACTICE. My professors all were ranked terribly on rate my professor but I had great experiences with them. You have to understand that most of the people rating a professor statistically got Cs or worse... PRACTICE.

Lastly, if you ever get frustrated, find comic relief here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekc1Xt6gMLs .

Good luck, I was subtle right?

 

[transfec]

Organic Chemistry can be a really fun class to take, if you approach it the right way. I'd get plenty of supplemental books, such as Organic Chemistry for Dummies, Organic Chemistry as a Second Language, and perhaps even a whole other textbook, if you can afford it. Record your lectures.

Although many claim O-Chem is a memorization class, that is not what I encountered when I took the class. It's a test of your ability to spread out your study time, spending 1-2 hours a night, every night learning the material. Organic Chemistry is NOT a class you should "cram" for. Instead, make sure you are up to date with all lectures and assignments.

If you still find yourself having problems, by all means, GET TO KNOW YOUR PROFESSOR. That's a must. Being comfortable with, and even getting to like, your instructor can greatly help you.

As far as going to two different lectures, it certainly couldn't hurt. You could always do that up until the first exam, and if it doesn't help, stop. Seek other avenues to do well in the class. You have to remember that not all professors cover the same material, and that can pose a problem if only one of them is dealing with your grades. I hope that helps!

 

[LawNonTrad]

I actually just got a little excited when I saw a new LawNonTrad thread pop up.

I've thought about doing stuff like this in the past, and usually make it through all of one class before I give it up. If you have the stamina to sit through two sequential hours of ochem and you're concerned enough about it that you think it's necessary, I don't see how it can be anything but helpful.

The advantages would be the obvious: twice the exposure to the material, repetition, the same material taught with different approaches, etc.

The disadvantages would be that it may be mind-numbing, and since they are following different texts, the classes very well may not be in synch.

BTW, there will undoubtedly be students dropping the class, so you might have an easier time switching in than you think.

Thanks. I'm not really concerned about the stamina because I've been prescribed 3 adderall tablets a day for my ADHD as far back as I can remember (first at 8 am, second at 1:30 pm, third at 7:00 pm). It keeps me cruising well into the evening.

I am a bit concerned about the classes not being synchronized, but the professor that I'm signed up with has such a terrible reputation when it comes to teaching that I think I almost have to attend both unless I want to teach the stuff to myself.

I almost certainly won't be able to switch into the other section. I know that kids will drop it but there's a 21-person waitlist for it (and guess who's #21), so unless 20 kids drop it in the first week, I'm SOL. Would you recommend that I do problems from both textbooks or stick to the Carey one because that's the one my lecture professor will be using? I have also bought Organic Chemistry I as a Second Language and am almost through chapter 3 of it. I also subscribed to Chad's videos because his o-chem videos seem to help. Any other advice you could give for doing well? I am taking algebra-based physics and bio at the same time. The syllabus for algebra-physics recommends studying 6-8 hours total a week outside of lecture/lab. The syllabus for bio recommends studying 10 hours total a week outside of lecture/lab. I'm going to study the recommended amount for both (8 for physics, 10 for bio). I'm taking o-chem without the lab because the only labs that weren't full conflicted with the physics lecture, so I'm planning on devoting at least 20 hours a week to studying for the o-chem lecture exclusively (figure 3 hours every weekday and weekend for the semester). I will probably ramp it up to 30-40 hours of studying for o-chem during exam weeks and for the final. There is no recitation for o-chem so that sucks -- I will have to work all of the problems myself with no real feedback. The professor also doesn't have any old exams on file and there aren't any on Course Hero so I'll need to get inside his head and think about what he'll ask on exams.

Do you think that 20 hours a week of legitimate studying (not Facebook, not texting) will be enough to get an A? I am going to do every end-of-chapter problem at least once but probably twice. I did all the assigned problems for g-chem twice and pulled out an A but I think it would have been easier if I had done all the problems in the end-of-chapter and not just the assigned ones. I would guess that the median studying time for the lecture (excluding work on lab reports) is probably 8-9 hours a week (little over an hour a day), so my goal is to study more than twice as much as the median.

I am better than average at rote memorization and people keep mentioning that you need to memorize a log of stuff for o-chem (apparently my professor gives a final exam where you have to have the structures of 150 molecules memorized going into it and he gives you like 15 reaction/synetheses problems), but I thought the better strategy for o-chem is to work the problems and memorize the basics that you can then manipulate to figure out the reactions/syntheses. Is it typical for an o-chem prof to tell students going into the final that they'll have to have 150 molecules memorized and all of the problems will involve those reactions? And if that's the case, wouldn't it be better to work with all the reactions beforehand instead of simply trying to memorize them? Is there any other way to work with them? I understand the root basics of solving reactions so far I think (from O-Chem as a second language), but I don't know any other way to know what the structure of a molecule is without memorizing it. I mean I can draw pentane and hexane and easy chain alkanes like that, but if it's something that has a specific name like acetanilide, is there a better way than simply memorizing 150 things like this?

Sorry for all of the questions, hopefully some of this will be clearer when I start the class I just hear so many bad things about organic that I want to start off on the right course in two weeks so I don't fall behind and waste my time learning/emphasizing crap that won't help on exams.

 

[transfec]

Thanks. I'm not really concerned about the stamina because I've been prescribed 3 adderall tablets a day for my ADHD as far back as I can remember (first at 8 am, second at 1:30 pm, third at 7:00 pm). It keeps me cruising well into the evening.

I am a bit concerned about the classes not being synchronized, but the professor that I'm signed up with has such a terrible reputation when it comes to teaching that I think I almost have to attend both unless I want to teach the stuff to myself.

I almost certainly won't be able to switch into the other section. I know that kids will drop it but there's a 21-person waitlist for it (and guess who's #21), so unless 20 kids drop it in the first week, I'm SOL. Would you recommend that I do problems from both textbooks or stick to the Carey one because that's the one my lecture professor will be using? I have also bought Organic Chemistry I as a Second Language and am almost through chapter 3 of it. I also subscribed to Chad's videos because his o-chem videos seem to help. Any other advice you could give for doing well? I am taking algebra-based physics and bio at the same time. The syllabus for algebra-physics recommends studying 6-8 hours total a week outside of lecture/lab. The syllabus for bio recommends studying 10 hours total a week outside of lecture/lab. I'm going to study the recommended amount for both (8 for physics, 10 for bio). I'm taking o-chem without the lab because the only labs that weren't full conflicted with the physics lecture, so I'm planning on devoting at least 20 hours a week to studying for the o-chem lecture exclusively (figure 3 hours every weekday and weekend for the semester). I will probably ramp it up to 30-40 hours of studying for o-chem during exam weeks and for the final. There is no recitation for o-chem so that sucks -- I will have to work all of the problems myself with no real feedback. The professor also doesn't have any old exams on file and there aren't any on Course Hero so I'll need to get inside his head and think about what he'll ask on exams.

Do you think that 20 hours a week of legitimate studying (not Facebook, not texting) will be enough to get an A? I am going to do every end-of-chapter problem at least once but probably twice. I did all the assigned problems for g-chem twice and pulled out an A but I think it would have been easier if I had done all the problems in the end-of-chapter and not just the assigned ones. I would guess that the median studying time for the lecture (excluding work on lab reports) is probably 8-9 hours a week (little over an hour a day), so my goal is to study more than twice as much as the median.

I am better than average at rote memorization and people keep mentioning that you need to memorize a log of stuff for o-chem (apparently my professor gives a final exam where you have to have the structures of 150 molecules memorized going into it and he gives you like 15 reaction/synetheses problems), but I thought the better strategy for o-chem is to work the problems and memorize the basics that you can then manipulate to figure out the reactions/syntheses. Is it typical for an o-chem prof to tell students going into the final that they'll have to have 150 molecules memorized and all of the problems will involve those reactions? And if that's the case, wouldn't it be better to work with all the reactions beforehand instead of simply trying to memorize them? Is there any other way to work with them? I understand the root basics of solving reactions so far I think (from O-Chem as a second language), but I don't know any other way to know what the structure of a molecule is without memorizing it. I mean I can draw pentane and hexane and easy chain alkanes like that, but if it's something that has a specific name like acetanilide, is there a better way than simply memorizing 150 things like this?

Sorry for all of the questions, hopefully some of this will be clearer when I start the class I just hear so many bad things about organic that I want to start off on the right course in two weeks so I don't fall behind and waste my time learning/emphasizing crap that won't help on exams.

Spending 20+ studying shows dedication, but there's no saying that will, without a doubt, lead to an A. Don't walk into the class with some of the expectations you have right now. Instead, approach it with enthusiasm and take some of the advice we're trying to offer you.

BTW, there are some things you CAN be doing now to prepare yourself, such as reviewing the general chemistry chapters at the beginning of your Ochem book (all of them have these chapters). Plus, get to know your functional groups; you will be tested on them, on the first exam. I wouldn't delve into any of the reaction just yet.

 

[jj6vcb]

Honestly your time might be better spend reviewing material specific to your section

 

[plzNOCarribbean]

Ok, I have tutored/SIed Ochem for 1.5 years now and I agree with the above poster that Ochem is not a memorization class. I personally was super worried like you and ended up teaching myself the entire class in a month before taking it. I honestly didn't spend that much time because the subject just made sense to me.

Honestly, I think the subject is not hard. It makes PERFECT, LOGICAL Sense if you constantly think, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING. For example, instead of memorizinng Nucleophiles attack electrophiles ALWAYS, think, why does a nucleophile always attack an electrophile (bc its electron difficient and desperately seeking electrons)- just an example. If you approach the class like this as opposed the bio mindset of memorize, memorize, memorize, you will be successful and will only have to go to one class

With that being said, I taught myself with the Mcmurry book and it was an EXCELLENT book but the problems were VERY challenging, and will be difficult for someone who has not yet taken organic. I would say that the Smith Book is much easier to follow; it has better chapter summaries, shorter text, and more concise. If your not taking a killer load, then attend both lectures, and do one set of the problems.

The BEST thing to do to assure yourself success is to READ THE CHAPTER PRIOR TO THE CLASS DISCUSSION ON THAT TOPIC. I cant stress this enough. The students I tutor that do this make A's. The ones that don't do not make A's. Simple as that. Also, work every single problem in the back of them book, first without the study guide. As you can see, if you feel that the time you take to attend the second lecture will not permit you to read the chapter to the next lesson being covered in class, then don't attend the second lecture. No matter how concise the orgo professor is, this is a self taught subject and everyone just has to read for themselves at least once to grasp the concepts.gluck. Dont be so worried. Orgo is not bad. People make it out to be much harder than it is, because they all try to Memorize it. Dont fall into this trap

 

[orgohacks]

Instead of sitting through an entire second lecture, consider looking through some of the online video series on Youtube on the appropriate topic. If you google "freelance teacher" you'll see a series by Stephen in Berkeley where he has well over 100 videos discussing organic chemistry in 10 minute chunks. He's good. You'd get the same benefits of hearing the concepts explained in a slightly different way, but you'd have more flexibility. Khan academy is also starting to put organic chemistry videos online.

Getting a study group - 1 or 2 people with similar commitment level - is really helpful. Introverts don't do this, but they should.

There *are* things to memorize - names of molecules/reagents and definitions, mostly - but you will be graded mostly not on how well you memorize, but how well you understand the trends.

Reading the textbook section before the lecture is a great idea. The problem is following through. If you don't have the discipline to reliably do it yourself, you need to partner with someone who will hold you accountable and kick you in the ass if you don't.

This isn't talked about, but I think the #1 most important factor in determining how well people do in the course is how committed they feel to their goals. Organic chem is the #1 most likely course to invoke an existential crisis. About halfway through, the people who are conflicted about their program/direction in life tend to fall behind, because an organic chem course can be grinding, will-sapping trench warfare. Based on the fact that you seem very motivated and committed, you should do fine if you put in the work and do the problems.

good luck - James

*self promotion alert*
I'm about 75% through writing a series called "From Gen Chem to Org Chem", which is designed to help summarize the important concepts from general chemistry you'll need to know before you start organic chem. Should have it done by Sept. 1 .
http://is.gd/epGaA

 

[111111111111111]

Spend an extra 3 hour a week doing practice problems instead.

 

[DocBell]

Spend an extra 3 hour a week doing practice problems instead.

+1. Honestly if you stay as motivated now as you seem to be you won't have a problem. I loved Ochem. It's really pretty logical and I thought it was fun. Honestly if you do struggle I really liked the audio osmosis lectures for orgo. Its a pretty concise summary of the important info. I know its not MCAT time yet but it might helpful. I remember wishing I had used it during the course.

 

[pharaoh88]

So I'm taking organic chemistry I in the fall. The lecture meets on MWF mornings. There is one other section of it being taught by what is thought to be a better professor and this other section is also on MWF, in the same building. It ends 10 minutes before my lecture starts. I'm worried about organic, so even though the sections use different books (the section I'm in uses Carey, the other uses McMurry), I was thinking that I would attend both lectures back-to-back every MWF (except on days where one or both of the lectures has an exam, obviously). I'll only do the homework (which is optional anyway) for my own section, but I figure that I can attend the early class to get a broad conceptual base for the organic material, and then really hunker down in my own section while taking copious amounts of notes.

It's possible that one section may get ahead or behind of the other, because they are using different texts, after all, but organic tends to be taught sequentially anyway from what I understand, so I think that this might be helpful in earning a better organic grade in my own lecture.

Advantages?

Disadvantages?

Stupidity?

I just know from my own experience that I tend to understand material a lot better the second time through.

And before you guys tell me to switch into the other section with the better prof, it's already overloaded by 5 students and the school won't let any more switch in. The lecture halls are enormous though (seats for 250-300 while only ~150 students per section), so I will still be able to find a seat in the earlier lecture.

For the sake of sanity, please do not do this to yourself. One organic chem text/course is more than enough.

 

[sonia1177]

Honestly, there is no need
To do that. I was really nervous + anxious before taking this course and Didn't need to be. This is NOT to imply it's super easy because it is not. You are better
Off spending lots and lots and lots of time drilling problem after problem. This is the way to do well in Orgo. Going to lecture provides a brief overview of what you need to know-- you learn throughout this course by drilling problems because no one can do that for you. Lecture gives a conceptual overview and may do some model problems but most of your learning is done yourself. You are better off using the time to do problems over and over again until you are living, breathing, and dreaming Orgo

So I'm taking organic chemistry I in the fall. The lecture meets on MWF mornings. There is one other section of it being taught by what is thought to be a better professor and this other section is also on MWF, in the same building. It ends 10 minutes before my lecture starts. I'm worried about organic, so even though the sections use different books (the section I'm in uses Carey, the other uses McMurry), I was thinking that I would attend both lectures back-to-back every MWF (except on days where one or both of the lectures has an exam, obviously). I'll only do the homework (which is optional anyway) for my own section, but I figure that I can attend the early class to get a broad conceptual base for the organic material, and then really hunker down in my own section while taking copious amounts of notes.

It's possible that one section may get ahead or behind of the other, because they are using different texts, after all, but organic tends to be taught sequentially anyway from what I understand, so I think that this might be helpful in earning a better organic grade in my own lecture.

Advantages?

Disadvantages?

Stupidity?

I just know from my own experience that I tend to understand material a lot better the second time through.

And before you guys tell me to switch into the other section with the better prof, it's already overloaded by 5 students and the school won't let any more switch in. The lecture halls are enormous though (seats for 250-300 while only ~150 students per section), so I will still be able to find a seat in the earlier lecture.