Going to medical school NOT to become a doctor?

[Law2Doc]

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We need to clarify what exactly is his intended goal. All that the OP has said is that he's interested in "biotechnology and biomedical devices." If you interpret this as him wanting to sit at his computer and design a new device, I agree that med school is a waste of time. If he wants to actually lead a team of people doing this and/or design trials for a new device from inception to determine their feasibility, applications, usefulness, safety, and efficacy, including identifying clinically meaningful end points, clinical training would be very helpful.

In answer to your question: Surgery and all surgical subspecialties, oncology, IM, and Ob/Gyn to name a few. Probably more. All of these rotations give you the opportunity to see the applications of new technologies in the clinic/OR and, most importantly, how physicians feel about and adopt the technologies, what current problems they face, and how they might be overcome.

Could he get this knowledge/training elsewhere? Absolutely. Is there a better way to demonstrate to a potential company/firm that he has this training? That's the real question.

There are literally millions spent every year by companies (for-profit and non-profits alike), trying to combat these beliefs. We need more physicians interested and involved in medical research (basic, translational, and clinical). The MD/PhD programs currently available are inadequate in size and selection criteria to fill this need.

The OP said he had no interest in being a practicing doctor, and that his passion was in biomedical engineering. I think it's an absurd leap to say med school is the right path for those stated goals no matter how expansively you want to read into it.

Doing 4 years of med school, paying a six digit tuition, and enduring countless unrelated rotations just to gauge attitudes on technologies in one is probably the least efficient approach I could think of to get into product development and I hope you see that you are really stretching here.

I'm thinking you are arguing for the sake of arguing because i know from your prior posts you have a much better grasp on reality than this.

 

[Law2Doc]

I should've expanded upon my original post with this. I don't actually want to sit around all day doing research or playing with a piece of tech. I want to be guy leading the team and the projects. My mom works at a big engineering company and she says that they hire a bunch of MD's for their research. She says a lot of the upper management is incompetent because they they don't know the details and the goals of the projects and they don't know what's really going on half the time. The people who are actually working on the projects are frustrated because these managers only really care about making money and do not have their best interest in the project (but I guess that's how the world really works). It's non-experts leading experts. I guess my ultimate goal would be to also obtain an MBA, take on one of these managing positions, and get **** done.

This still isn't a good path to get to your desired goals. You will spend $200k and 4 years to be less qualified to do the job because 99% of med school will detract from time you could be spending on something you supposedly are passionate about.

Also be careful that they really just hire "a bunch of MDs" with no experience besides med school (which is honestly a pretty useless degree unless you stick around for the subsequent 3-7 years of training) -- they may actually hire vetted physicians with experience in a given field that can tell them about what is eg needed in the OR. Holding a retractor on a surgery rotation isn't going to help you know what the guys actually doing the surgery like or dislike about devices, etc. It would be like asking the guy working in the mailroom about what the executives needs are.

Finally, med school doesn't train you to be a team leader. Residency somewhat does. So again you'd not get most of the skills that might actually be useful if you just did med school.

 

[BABSstudent]

I'm going to be a junior in biomedical engineering, and I know my passion lies within biotechnology and biomedical devices. However, I dont' think an undergrad education, or even a masters, is enough to put my ahead of the curve. So I'm thinking of applying to medical school. I will state my purpose and convey my passion in my personal statement, demonstrate this with my extracurricular activities, and lets say that my GPA and MCAT are both up to par. So what I'm worried about is this: Do medical schools only want future doctors? Or will I be a unique and in a favorable position during the admission cycle?

😕

That's like going to Hogwarts to not become a wizard.

 

[thesauce]

I don't think we said bench research wasn't highly regarded, or that it couldn't help an application similar to other forms of research. We didn't say anything like that, and it not a natural corrolary of what was said.

Great. So do you believe bench research is highly regarded or not? If you do, then the question is why? Why would med schools (who you state are trying to train clinicians and only clinicians) be interested in bench research in MD-only candidates?

What we actually said was that your saying med school was interested in "research" is misleading, because 90+% is not that kind of research. That you can find hundreds of examples in an annual applicnt pool of 50,000 is pretty insignficant.

Where did you get 90+%? I would bet more have bench research experience than clinical research experience because it's much easier to get as an undergrad. But truthfully I don't know. Do you?

 

[Law2Doc]

Great. So do you believe bench research is highly regarded or not? If you do, then the question is why? Why would med schools (who you state are trying to train clinicians and only clinicians) be interested in bench research in MD-only candidates?

Where did you get 90+%? I would bet more have bench research experience than clinical research experience because it's much easier to get as an undergrad. But truthfully I don't know. Do you?

think if how many people at your med school did "research" and what percent of it was bench research. If it's greater than single digits I'd be shocked. I know it's not at the places I've been, and that's at research heavy places. The research at all the hospitals without affiliated labs are going to be even more strongly weighted towards clinical research. You also need to bear in mind that a lot of industry funding out there is for clinical trials, so you can follow the money. I think 90% is actually probably conservative. But this is a tangent you are driving off onto. Not OPs point at all.

Bench research is similarly regarded by med schools as clinical research. All research is looked at positively by med schools because it helps get people into residencies, academic places or get grant funding. It doesn't suggest the role isn't to train clinicians.

 

[thesauce]

The OP said he had no interest in being a practicing doctor, and that his passion was in biomedical engineering. I think it's an absurd leap to say med school is the right path for those stated goals no matter how expansively you want to read into it.

Biomedical engineering is such an broad field that hasn't even semi-standardized their curriculum across undergrad institutions. They have their hands in every industry you can imagine, even non-healthcare fields. There are niches where I think a medical school trained employee could potentially provide usefulness.

Doing 4 years of med school, paying a six digit tuition, and enduring countless unrelated rotations just to gauge attitudes on technologies in one is probably the least efficient approach I could think of to get into product development and I hope you see that you are really stretching here.

I do see what you're saying, but it's more than just that. I am constantly and consistently amazed by the disconnect in bench projects that I've seen and their realistic application in the clinic. You have to wonder what they were thinking sinking millions into these products. At this point in my career, I can look at these projects and say to myself "that will never sell because x, y, and z." I don't know if I could do that without this medical training. Maybe.

I'm thinking you are arguing for the sake of arguing because i know from your prior posts you have a much better grasp on reality than this.

I appreciate the flattery, but I don't think we need to make this personal. Yes, to some extent I am playing devil's advocate in this particular scenario, but I don't believe that medical school exists only to produce practicing clinicians. There are viable and IMPORTANT alternatives out there.

 

[thesauce]

think if how many people at your med school did "research" and what percent of it was bench research. If it's greater than single digits I'd be shocked. I know it's not at the places I've been, and that's at research heavy places. The research at all the hospitals without affiliated labs are going to be even more strongly weighted towards clinical research.

Just so we're on the same page, I was speaking of premeds applying to med school (hence my reference to what ADCOMs "like" to see). And in that setting, I can only think of a couple that did clinical research. Pretty much everyone was at the bench. I do accept that my experience may also be skewed because of where I've trained, so we'll just leave it at that.

But this is a tangent you are driving off onto. Not OPs point at all.

Right, but it leads into YOUR point (i.e. medical school is only there to train clinicians). We are clearly going to have to agree to disagree. As I said, there are companies, foundations, and government organizations spending millions every year in attempt to encourage physicians to become more involved in (specifically bench) research.

 

[Espadaleader]

Medical schools love to admit students that aren't going to be physicians. They are called MD/PhD.

Lol, I know thats not totally true, but you could do a MD/PhD, skip residency and just postdoc. Never practice medicine.

 

[beBrave]

I'm going to be a junior in biomedical engineering, and I know my passion lies within biotechnology and biomedical devices. However, I dont' think an undergrad education, or even a masters, is enough to put my ahead of the curve. So I'm thinking of applying to medical school. I will state my purpose and convey my passion in my personal statement, demonstrate this with my extracurricular activities, and lets say that my GPA and MCAT are both up to par. So what I'm worried about is this: Do medical schools only want future doctors? Or will I be a unique and in a favorable position during the admission cycle?

A medical school will not accept you if you have no intention of becoming a Doctor to treat patients. You can have a super high GPA and excellent MCAT's but if you tell them your intentions, then don't expect an acceptance. Medical school won't put you ahead of the curve in the field that you are aiming at; A PhD in Bio-medical Engineering would be more beneficial than an MD for you.

 

[thesauce]

Medical schools love to admit students that aren't going to be physicians. They are called MD/PhD.

Lol, I know thats not totally true, but you could do a MD/PhD, skip residency and just postdoc. Never practice medicine.

Not only is it not totally true, it's far from true. Most MD/PhDs don't do any research whatsoever after residency. This is one of the reasons for the 5yr programs like Cleveland Clinic and the "year off" programs like the NIH MRSP - to make up for the poor job the MD/PhD programs are doing in producing physician researchers.

 

[NorthernLights1]

I agree with thesauce.

From the comments I've seen here, I suspect most have never had a product development background. A lot of medical devices start with a business manager going "gee, I bet <x idea> would be useful!" They might interview a doc or two for some superficial guidance and then plow ahead when, in reality, their idea is complete crap (lets face it, how many docs are going to admit an idea sucks when they're getting paid some sweet, sweet consulting money to say otherwise?). A year and thousands of man-hours later, the manager is left wondering why the project failed.

I have met a MD who went through residency, did a fellowship in a very specific specialty, and now makes more money than I could even spend (7 figures, folks) by managing new projects full time for a BIG medical device company. Someone with clinical knowledge is extremely valuable in certain situations, and a PhD doesn't always provide that background.

From what I've seen, the best products are almost always created by people that are passionate about using them. It's no wonder medical devices are so absurdly expensive (and often poorly designed) when the general opinion amongst MDs seems to be that product development is somehow beneath their higher purpose of healing.

All that being said, I have no idea if you could actually find a medical school willing to admit you if your stated intention was to never actually practice. I'm applying to medical school because I love the clinical aspects of medicine AND I love medical device development. No idea how, but my personal plan is to find a way to combine the two. By the way, my take on some of the suggestions I've seen is that a MD/PhD is almost certainly not the right choice - a PhD is non-trivial (I would argue more non-trivial than medical school depending on the program/school/field), and you will spend a lot of lonely nights/weekends in a basement lab doing bench research that won't actually help give you any management perspective.

 

[The Beyonder]

😕

That's like going to Hogwarts to not become a wizard.

That's like going to Praxeum to not becoming a Jedi.

 

[JPodel]

It's called a PhD in BME my friend!

 

[thesauce]

That's like going to Praxeum to not becoming a Jedi.

Right. It would be like going to Praxeum to become a Sith Lord, which might be very valuable experience.

 

[beBrave]

I think television and movies have heavily distorted the role of Medical Doctors in research. While a Medical Doctors may conduct research, MD's will need to learn these skills separately through experience or another advanced degree geared towards research in the specific field of interest. The average family care Physician is unlikely to do bio-medical research.

 

[thesauce]

I think television and movies have heavily distorted the role of Medical Doctors in research. While may Medical Doctors may conduct research, MD's will need to learn these skills separately through experience or another advanced degree geared towards research in the specific field of interest. The average family care Physician is unlikely to do bio-medical research.

Most doctors are unlikely to do biomedical research and I think it's a shame. The "we are the doctors" and "they are the researchers" mentality hurts our ability to improve medical care. Every physician has the ability (and maybe the duty) to advance our profession.

 

[ur2l8]

My cousin works for a pharma industrial company, has a phd in BME, makes about 200k/yr

 

[WRL]

I don't know about biotech, but often, in the medical device industry, an engineer will have a human resources supervisor who will help you get on a path towards the kind of position you are seeking, regardless of what education you have, reason being that medical device field is more applied science and engineering.