thank you, SDN.
going to withdraw from UCSF, but reluctant .. again. why can't i make a decision?
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um, well, i haven't been in your situation but it seems that if you had enough second thoughts about ucsf to reinstate your yale acceptance that says something. it sounds like you have doubts about ucsf as a med school and what it can offer you and that could be significant. the uc's can be difficult to deal with, more difficult than private schools from what i have witnessed. and as a californian who works for the state this is a rough time for the uc system and the budget mess is not getting solved. i fear what kind of cuts are going to come down the pipeline in the next few years. that said, ucsf is the premiere med school and has lots of resources so the cuts would probably impact it less than other uc's. from what you wrote it sounds like you like yale better as a school. personally, i would probably go with that because school will take up a lot of your time, and if you have issues with the way the school is run, that could be more significant than not having friends nearby. this is coming from someone who loves san francisco and plans to spend the rest of my life (minus my 4 years in med school) here hopefully. bottom line is they are both great schools and you probably cannot go wrong with either. go where you think you'll have the best time as a med student.
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hey kiddo, good to see you have the chance to make the choice yourself and not that someone else is making the choice for you.
so you know what happened last time. imagine it the other way around now. spend an hour or two pretending you're going to yale. see how you feel after that.
don't worry about residency yet. a lot can change in four years. but if you want to go to CA for it, i'm sure you can make it there again. like someone once told me, "great people are great, wherever they go."
it's not the school that makes the person, it's the people that make the school. that said, if you're out for world domination (cough, republican presidents, cough), yale is the place to rub shoulders with the soon-to-be powerful.
good luck with your choice. don't look back.
so you know what happened last time. imagine it the other way around now. spend an hour or two pretending you're going to yale. see how you feel after that.
don't worry about residency yet. a lot can change in four years. but if you want to go to CA for it, i'm sure you can make it there again. like someone once told me, "great people are great, wherever they go."
it's not the school that makes the person, it's the people that make the school. that said, if you're out for world domination (cough, republican presidents, cough), yale is the place to rub shoulders with the soon-to-be powerful.
good luck with your choice. don't look back.
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Remember me from LSS? =)
1) You... we DON'T come from a po-dunk school (Coogs rule!)... well, not TOO po-dunk
2) If you go to Yale, you'll be closer to me!
3) If I were you, I'd pick UCSF. Yale has a wierd program and UCSF will provide the grounds for a better education
4) Why haven't you chosen a school yet?! Just flip a coin... either way, you're gonna win.
5) email/call me
1) You... we DON'T come from a po-dunk school (Coogs rule!)... well, not TOO po-dunk
2) If you go to Yale, you'll be closer to me!
3) If I were you, I'd pick UCSF. Yale has a wierd program and UCSF will provide the grounds for a better education
4) Why haven't you chosen a school yet?! Just flip a coin... either way, you're gonna win.
5) email/call me
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i was deciding between yale and another school as well (the alternative is in boston). for me it came down to the locale. i went to yale undergrad, and know new haven quite well. trust you me, it's not that great of a place. i'm heading towards boston instead.
i concur with the previous comment. "don't look back." you're choosing between diamonds and rubies - there really isn't a "wrong" or "bad" choice.
i concur with the previous comment. "don't look back." you're choosing between diamonds and rubies - there really isn't a "wrong" or "bad" choice.
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i disagree with Newquagmire though, about how being at yale gives you conenctions thourgh "rubbing shoulders with the soon-to-be powerful."
again, being a yalie, that never happened to me. i did take a class with barbie bush - the chance of that ever benefitting me is zero.
choose the place where you'll be the happiest and where you'll learn the most. don't choose a school base on vanity.
again, being a yalie, that never happened to me. i did take a class with barbie bush - the chance of that ever benefitting me is zero.
choose the place where you'll be the happiest and where you'll learn the most. don't choose a school base on vanity.
PennMed said:
1) hahah it's po-dunk! how many premeds came out of our school like us? two? and that includes us? hahhahha (which reminds me, where is A goin?)
2) and i'm DEFINITELY kickin' it with you
3) if i was myself a month ago, i'd pick UCSF too .. Yale's weird program is what i like and am scared of at the same time .. i may come out a softie from Yale, but that's if i let myself ..
4) because i suck .. forreal. i'm not worried about the education really (a tad bit worried about wards), just worried about being happy yanno? i can't say that the ppl at Yale are awesome .. they're nice, like any other place i mean .. but if they turn out not to be, i can't really run far .. and if you've got a class of 100, with most living in the dorms, i bet that ppl will be at each other's throats by the end of the year .. i feel like at UCSF, you can maintain some distance .. good or bad i dunno yet .. (i feel like a little high school kid going away for college) ..
5) will do!
pureofheart said:
thanks for the input!
when it comes to where i think i'll be happier/happiest, i don't think there's a safe way to be sure b/c anything can happen .. but i think ppl choose based on this for the psychological benefit of knowing that they chose for perceived happiness and therefore will be happy based on that ... which i think is totally OK .. b/c right now, the fact that i know there's a greater chance of being happy in SF than at Yale already sets me up with a bad attitude .. but i still see it as a chance thing, and if i keep positive, maybe it'll be ok ..
did you enjoy your experience at Yale even though you're not inclined to continue there?
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go to Yale. This is a bit hostile, but I just don't get WHY this is so incredibly difficult that you've dragged it out for this long. I mean you have some moxie to ask Yale to reconsider-- and then you still may turn them down! You are blessed to have some of the greatest choices for medical school, that some SDNers would kill for, and are extra blessed to have all the extensions that schools have granted you (on your applications AND your acceptance windows). You obviously are a super applicant, which is why schools are bending over backwards for you. Take the risk, go to Yale, don't be afraid of the future. Head out to SF for residency when you actually make a little bit of money to enjoy the lifestyle.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
PennMed said:
i didn't know you wanted to do a residency at UCSF!
man i'm just afraid of regretting .. it's like the worst feeling in the world .. ppl say "don't regret" .. but it's like saying "don't feel pain" after someone breaks your heart. it's just a natural reaction, and when you think everything through and come to terms, it's alright .. but doesn't mean you won't initially feel that pang ...
i'm so envious of you!!! man, if i met the one and got to go to school with him too, i wouldn't care where in the world it would be!!! but damn, at Penn?! hahahha i'm so happy for you!
mellantro said:
thanks .. no prob with the hostility .. i've already directed enough at myself that additional hostility from others doesn't really affect me .. i totally deserve it and i completely agree with you!
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hi mentoz,
the indecisive bug has a firm grip on you doesn't it? i have spent a lot of time battling indecision, so i can totally relate. i know how much it sucks.
i know that you probably already know this, but either choice you make will be a good one - there is no "right" school for you. we are adaptive as a species - the struggle is setting your mind at peace after you make a decision and allowing yourself to adapt to whatever circumstances you are faced with. you can do this.
in the long run, it probably won't matter that much where you go to med school, as far as residencies go. you got into yale AND ucsf - you will get any residency you want. you basically rock. so don't worry about residencies now.
from your post it sounds like community-wise, ucsf is better for you. to me this is the most important thing. i would choose the city and school where you feel the most at ease, where you have the most support, and where your surroundings will make you feel the most relaxed. there is no comparison between new haven and san francisco. the standard of living is just so much better on the west coast.
i would choose ucsf over yale, even though you have some reservations about the inflexibility of ucsf and the possibility of finding a good mentor there. i have been a student at both the uc's and the ivies, and from my experience i would say that at either place it is up to you to get what you want out of your education - be it mentorship, research opportunities, or flexibility in your schedual. you can make it happen how you want at either place. but where do you really want to spend the next four years of your life?
i am sure you will have a fabulous experience no matter where you choose to go. remember to trust your adaptive capabilities in either decision you make.
best wishes and good luck!
lolli
the indecisive bug has a firm grip on you doesn't it? i have spent a lot of time battling indecision, so i can totally relate. i know how much it sucks.
i know that you probably already know this, but either choice you make will be a good one - there is no "right" school for you. we are adaptive as a species - the struggle is setting your mind at peace after you make a decision and allowing yourself to adapt to whatever circumstances you are faced with. you can do this.
in the long run, it probably won't matter that much where you go to med school, as far as residencies go. you got into yale AND ucsf - you will get any residency you want. you basically rock. so don't worry about residencies now.
from your post it sounds like community-wise, ucsf is better for you. to me this is the most important thing. i would choose the city and school where you feel the most at ease, where you have the most support, and where your surroundings will make you feel the most relaxed. there is no comparison between new haven and san francisco. the standard of living is just so much better on the west coast.
i would choose ucsf over yale, even though you have some reservations about the inflexibility of ucsf and the possibility of finding a good mentor there. i have been a student at both the uc's and the ivies, and from my experience i would say that at either place it is up to you to get what you want out of your education - be it mentorship, research opportunities, or flexibility in your schedual. you can make it happen how you want at either place. but where do you really want to spend the next four years of your life?
i am sure you will have a fabulous experience no matter where you choose to go. remember to trust your adaptive capabilities in either decision you make.
best wishes and good luck!
lolli
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Mentoz,
Okay, don't laugh. I have experienced this before, but not with med school. When I was about 3 years old my mom took me to the toy store and offered to buy me a big stuffed animal. I narrowed it down to Snoopy and Winnie the Pooh, but they were both so wonderful and I hadn't seen stuffed animals that big before and I knew that the store would sell out before my mom would even consider getting me another. I really wanted both, but I had to decide because they were closing soon, so I picked Snoopy. We got him out to the car, and I broke into tears - I wanted Winnie the Pooh instead. So we took Snoopy back, but when we were about to exchange him for Winnie I got scared that I would regret giving up Snoopy. I think I eventually stuck with Winnie. I know it wasn't a big deal, but for me, at 3 years old, it was traumatic, so I really feel for you. The thing is, there's no wrong choice here. Most people are happy wherever they end up in med school, and I'm sure you'll be happy too, no matter which one you choose. You eventually have to just make a choice and be satisfied with it.
That said, if you come to Yale, I'll be your friend.
Okay, don't laugh. I have experienced this before, but not with med school. When I was about 3 years old my mom took me to the toy store and offered to buy me a big stuffed animal. I narrowed it down to Snoopy and Winnie the Pooh, but they were both so wonderful and I hadn't seen stuffed animals that big before and I knew that the store would sell out before my mom would even consider getting me another. I really wanted both, but I had to decide because they were closing soon, so I picked Snoopy. We got him out to the car, and I broke into tears - I wanted Winnie the Pooh instead. So we took Snoopy back, but when we were about to exchange him for Winnie I got scared that I would regret giving up Snoopy. I think I eventually stuck with Winnie. I know it wasn't a big deal, but for me, at 3 years old, it was traumatic, so I really feel for you. The thing is, there's no wrong choice here. Most people are happy wherever they end up in med school, and I'm sure you'll be happy too, no matter which one you choose. You eventually have to just make a choice and be satisfied with it.
That said, if you come to Yale, I'll be your friend.
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Hey Mentoz,
You know my response...go to Yale!!! Seriously consider the situation LoneCoyote posted regarding the current UC budget crisis, and in general, the atmosphere that exists within a public school system. I know you had sent me a PM on this issue earlier, my respone today is still the same: private>public. I made a similar decision. I agonized for MONTHS about the 'ifs" of attending SF. The questions you're asking are appropriate, but you must move on. Don't make this bigger than it is....you have wonderful opportunities at both places. The level of personal attention maybe the difference you're looking for.
Take care. Hope all ends well.
-Harps
You know my response...go to Yale!!! Seriously consider the situation LoneCoyote posted regarding the current UC budget crisis, and in general, the atmosphere that exists within a public school system. I know you had sent me a PM on this issue earlier, my respone today is still the same: private>public. I made a similar decision. I agonized for MONTHS about the 'ifs" of attending SF. The questions you're asking are appropriate, but you must move on. Don't make this bigger than it is....you have wonderful opportunities at both places. The level of personal attention maybe the difference you're looking for.
Take care. Hope all ends well.
-Harps
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principessa said:
I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing.
hey buddy
without going to both schools no one can tell you which one is a better fit for you, or which is a better school in general. unfortunately life is such that oftentimes we can only chose one of two equally appealing opportunities. in the end, the ability and opportunity to make those choices is what makes us human, and allows us to grow as people. c'est la vie!
without going to both schools no one can tell you which one is a better fit for you, or which is a better school in general. unfortunately life is such that oftentimes we can only chose one of two equally appealing opportunities. in the end, the ability and opportunity to make those choices is what makes us human, and allows us to grow as people. c'est la vie!
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Newquagmire said:I'm sorry, but I can't stop laughing.
I am so glad you are amused by my very traumatic experience. You are only adding insult to injury. 😉
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Wow... Nice decision to have to make. I cant help but think that the only person that can help you make this decision is you. But I would suggest contacting students from both schools and asking them how they feel about their decision to attend. Many of the attendees, like yourself, were accepted to multiple high caliber schools and could help shed some light on your current situation.
Personally, I would go to SF. F*&@ snow!!!
Personally, I would go to SF. F*&@ snow!!!
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Mentoz,
I remember reading your earlier posts, and found your ideas/questions helpful in my own decisions.
For many years in business, I had dreamed of being a CEO. When I was one step away, I realized I had lost interest in it. This really surprised me. I quit working for a while to figure out what my real dream was. It was a confusing time, but worthwhile. It was risky, no real safety net. Some friends understood, some didn't. Some things went well, other things were very difficult. But I really like that I am pursuing my new dream, a dream that is related to an idea that I had as a kid. That means more to me than the comfortable life I could have had in business.
Some pieces of my dream still elude me. I know they are missing because I get this uncomfortable feeling when I try to make a decision related to it. I dislike the uncomfortable feeling, but its the only thing that lets me know I have missed something that I need to know. Its really tough sometimes figuring out a missing piece (an idea, a value, perspective, etc), but I always try to get it. I use all the ways I can think of to figure this out: logic/analytical, talking to friends/family, meditation/prayer, etc. I can tell once I get close or figure it out, because I feel a sense of relief.
Your indecision and discomfort seems to be more about making a decision with a piece missing rather than the actual choice between two places. At either place, you will have risk and face obstacles, and you will be faced with tough choices about what you are really trying to do, what your dream really is.
I wish you well in trying to find that missing piece so you can feel good about your choice!
Don
I remember reading your earlier posts, and found your ideas/questions helpful in my own decisions.
For many years in business, I had dreamed of being a CEO. When I was one step away, I realized I had lost interest in it. This really surprised me. I quit working for a while to figure out what my real dream was. It was a confusing time, but worthwhile. It was risky, no real safety net. Some friends understood, some didn't. Some things went well, other things were very difficult. But I really like that I am pursuing my new dream, a dream that is related to an idea that I had as a kid. That means more to me than the comfortable life I could have had in business.
Some pieces of my dream still elude me. I know they are missing because I get this uncomfortable feeling when I try to make a decision related to it. I dislike the uncomfortable feeling, but its the only thing that lets me know I have missed something that I need to know. Its really tough sometimes figuring out a missing piece (an idea, a value, perspective, etc), but I always try to get it. I use all the ways I can think of to figure this out: logic/analytical, talking to friends/family, meditation/prayer, etc. I can tell once I get close or figure it out, because I feel a sense of relief.
Your indecision and discomfort seems to be more about making a decision with a piece missing rather than the actual choice between two places. At either place, you will have risk and face obstacles, and you will be faced with tough choices about what you are really trying to do, what your dream really is.
I wish you well in trying to find that missing piece so you can feel good about your choice!
Don
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out of respect for the admission committee members who gave you a second chance and for the pre-meds at your college who would one day like to have a shot at Yale, I think you should go to Yale. you asked the yale ad com members to allow you to withdraw your previous withdrawal and accept their admission offer. i suspect they said "yes" because they assumed Yale would be your final decision, not that you were still vacillating between two schools.
If you're looking for guarantees at either school -- i.e. happiness, success, "fit," first choice for residency in your chosen specialty, etc. -- don't hold your breath. With the exception of death and taxes, nothing is guaranteed.
If you're looking for guarantees at either school -- i.e. happiness, success, "fit," first choice for residency in your chosen specialty, etc. -- don't hold your breath. With the exception of death and taxes, nothing is guaranteed.
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Whichever decision you make, you need to also address the indecision. This level of indecision isn't healthy and should have been overcome at the Winnie vs. Snoopy stage.
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Clear your PM boxes!!! You can't receive mail...keeps sending back
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Mentoz,
I am a very indecisive person, so I can sympathize (although I will certainly not be faced with the abundant plethora of options you have w/regards to where to learn medicine).
I would say that you should go to Yale, for both ethical reasons (you shouldn't bait and switch), and because you felt unhappy enough with your previous decision to have is rescinded. That has to say something. You must be at least 22; time to become an adult and stop worrying about not having safety nets. Lots of kids switch coasts for college and do fine- you're an adult about to start med school who is afraid of switching coasts! Your indecision needs to end here. Yale is cheaper for you and UCSF will be cheaper for the probable in-state resident who will get your waitlist spot. Less money is a good thing. Yale is a wonderful, relaxed place, and you sound like you need some low-stress environment to make this transition.
Yale.
I am a very indecisive person, so I can sympathize (although I will certainly not be faced with the abundant plethora of options you have w/regards to where to learn medicine).
I would say that you should go to Yale, for both ethical reasons (you shouldn't bait and switch), and because you felt unhappy enough with your previous decision to have is rescinded. That has to say something. You must be at least 22; time to become an adult and stop worrying about not having safety nets. Lots of kids switch coasts for college and do fine- you're an adult about to start med school who is afraid of switching coasts! Your indecision needs to end here. Yale is cheaper for you and UCSF will be cheaper for the probable in-state resident who will get your waitlist spot. Less money is a good thing. Yale is a wonderful, relaxed place, and you sound like you need some low-stress environment to make this transition.
Yale.
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I think Mentoz just bumped off Brickhouse for being most eligible bachelorette of SDN
Hey Brickhouse post and PM me! Don't take this lying down! 😀
Hey Brickhouse post and PM me! Don't take this lying down! 😀
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If you come to UCSF, I'll be your friend. 🙂
You'll be a great doctor coming out of either school. Yale's great, UCSF's great, many other schools are great. Don't unnecessarily stress yourself about this decision. Sure the budget cuts have been hurting the UC system, but UCSF is unique because it's a rich public school. Well, I could go on about UCSF because I'm biased. But anyway, don't get caught up in UCSF being your dream school years ago or Yale's name having a stronger general public recognition. Every school has pros and cons...I guess you just have to figure out your priorities. If you pick Yale, you'll be fine. If you pick UCSF, you'll be fine. But, for your sake, just pick and be at peace!
Good luck!
You'll be a great doctor coming out of either school. Yale's great, UCSF's great, many other schools are great. Don't unnecessarily stress yourself about this decision. Sure the budget cuts have been hurting the UC system, but UCSF is unique because it's a rich public school. Well, I could go on about UCSF because I'm biased. But anyway, don't get caught up in UCSF being your dream school years ago or Yale's name having a stronger general public recognition. Every school has pros and cons...I guess you just have to figure out your priorities. If you pick Yale, you'll be fine. If you pick UCSF, you'll be fine. But, for your sake, just pick and be at peace!
Good luck!
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So which will it be?
Principessa,
That's the cutest story- hahaha! Although I must say that a giant Snoopy would be far superior to Winnie. We can duel this out since I'm going to Yale this fall too.
And to Mentoz, I'm curious as to what your decision is too. I can absolutely understand your indecisiveness though since I'm the same way. Good luck!
That's the cutest story- hahaha! Although I must say that a giant Snoopy would be far superior to Winnie. We can duel this out since I'm going to Yale this fall too.
And to Mentoz, I'm curious as to what your decision is too. I can absolutely understand your indecisiveness though since I'm the same way. Good luck!
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Hmm, a similar situation here too- it's hard to turn down a school that seemed like a dream, but it sounds like your heart is leaning another way.
That said, I am from Yale undergrad, and I gotta tell you, New Haven has nothing on SF. I mean I love Yale, but even Yale-lovers get tired of New Haven after a while. I like the med school, but the system is designed so that it won't be as rigorous or thorough as UCSF's. So this depends on what matters to you- curriculum (probably not important in the long run, since no curriculum is perfect), location (New Haven<SF for quality of life), support network (depends on if you feel like you need proximity to your friends and fam, or whether you plan on using your cell phone a lot like me). I talked to a great professor at UCSF who had been at both UCSF and HArvard, and he said (it applies to you as well) that I should just choose based on my personal preferences/feelings- Debating the merits of each school is fruitless since both are excellent. Ask yourself the questions: Where do I want to live and which place is right for me right now in my development? Where will I go and have the fewest regrets? If you took away my acceptance to UCSF, would I be happy to go to Yale? And if you took away my acceptance to Yale, would I be happy at UCSF?
Another trick: assign head and tails to each school and flip a coin. See which one won, and then see how you feel. If you are at peace with the coin flip, then you know to go to that school. If your first thought is "i wish it was the other school instead", you know what you have to do.
Hope this helps.
That said, I am from Yale undergrad, and I gotta tell you, New Haven has nothing on SF. I mean I love Yale, but even Yale-lovers get tired of New Haven after a while. I like the med school, but the system is designed so that it won't be as rigorous or thorough as UCSF's. So this depends on what matters to you- curriculum (probably not important in the long run, since no curriculum is perfect), location (New Haven<SF for quality of life), support network (depends on if you feel like you need proximity to your friends and fam, or whether you plan on using your cell phone a lot like me). I talked to a great professor at UCSF who had been at both UCSF and HArvard, and he said (it applies to you as well) that I should just choose based on my personal preferences/feelings- Debating the merits of each school is fruitless since both are excellent. Ask yourself the questions: Where do I want to live and which place is right for me right now in my development? Where will I go and have the fewest regrets? If you took away my acceptance to UCSF, would I be happy to go to Yale? And if you took away my acceptance to Yale, would I be happy at UCSF?
Another trick: assign head and tails to each school and flip a coin. See which one won, and then see how you feel. If you are at peace with the coin flip, then you know to go to that school. If your first thought is "i wish it was the other school instead", you know what you have to do.
Hope this helps.
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You may not like San Francisco after you've been there for a while.
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Pick one...and tell yourself that you'll do a bunch of visiting rotations/externships at the other...so you'll get to experience both. Its a win-win. There are people out on the street trying to decide between far more serious matters....not to belittle your anxiety at the decision. For me, thinking about people that have much more important decisions made mine easier to deal with...maybe it will help you too.
Either way you are a doctor...from a great school! In the end don't worry about pissing off either school...just pick one and don't look back!
Either way you are a doctor...from a great school! In the end don't worry about pissing off either school...just pick one and don't look back!
Don Pilch said:
you hit the nail right on the head .. i'm glad you found my previous posts helpful, and now you have kindly returned the favor .. your response is the most helpful one that i've read .. not to say that i don't appreciate all of the responses (b/c what i appreciate most is having ppl who can relate to me), but they are all things i have already considered .. i doubt that any person on SDN has done more research over both schools than i have or tried more ways to think about things than i have .. and you're right, the missing piece isn't some sort of information that i've glossed over, it's more about myself and what risks i'm willing to take and what's most important to me .. there are many other factors that i didn't mention b/c they are personal, but i know that the problem isn't the actual choice, but my being able to make one.
and thanks for actually being helpful on this thread 🙂 i appreciate it
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so what did you decide, mentoz? 🙂
