goldwater scholar applicants

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Congrats! and happy birthday!
 
didnt win, but i plan on applying again next year. what were your stats/proposal like? any advice?
 
marctam86 said:
didnt win, but i plan on applying again next year. what were your stats/proposal like? any advice?

Hi marctam86, good luck next year. I am a junior, had a 3.93 GPA at the time of application, did research since freshman year in the same lab (biochemistry) in telomerase biology, spent the summer after freshman year doing research in that same lab, and spent last summer in the SURP at Memorial Sloan-Kettering. Since my research experiences were connected through the field of cancer, my proposal was based off that.

There were rumors at my university that you'd be best off with a 4.0 GPA...but it is possible to win the Goldwater without it. Also, I marked down myself as a prospective MD/PhD applicant (and strangely they put me down with straight PhD intent on the Goldwater website), but I made it clear through all of the essays that I am primarily interested in research.

Hope that helps! Best of wishes! 🙂
 
how funny! i just found out i got into the SURP program at sloan kettering. ill attend that program and reapply (hopefully with better grades). I had a 3.86 overall and a 3.96 sci gpa. my proposal was about the leprosy (yes, it still exists, haha) research ive been involved with the past three summers. thankfully, ill get another chance next year. congrats, and thank you for your advice!
 
Teerawit said:
Congrats! and happy birthday!



Thanks and congrats to you as well on the Goldwater!
 
marctam86 said:
didnt win, but i plan on applying again next year. what were your stats/proposal like? any advice?


I'm a sophomore. I have a 3.95cum, but 8 A+'s that do not receive extra weight and may have helped somewhat. My proposal was about the research project that I have been working on for the past year, which I will continue through graduation.

My advice (mostly stuff that my faculty representative stressed) is, of course, to have a super-high GPA. I don't agree with the other poster that you need a 4.0. I didn't, and I don't think that anybody else who won from my institution this year had one either. It may depend on the institution, though. I think as long as you have a 3.9+ then you are good to go in that category. I really think that most everybody who even applies already has the GPA of 3.9 or above, so this can't help or hurt your application too much. I think that things like this are more about how your application is presented through essays and the overall picture (see below).

Course overloads and honors science courses are stressed a lot. One of my recommenders emphasized the rigor of my courseload, and I managed to slip in somewhere how I will have taken about 10 grad-level science courses before I graduate.

The research is key, obviously. You need to make a cohesive application that, for the most part, centers around your undergraduate research and is consistent with your long-term career goal. In my case, I had a letter of rec from the research supervisor, I talked about my research in the research experience section, I talked about the project in another essay, and then my entire proposal was about my project. This created a cohesive application that read easily.

There are two components of most successful applications: cohesion and clarity. I was just talking about this with my dad, who is on adcoms for a variety of things at a medical school (general med admissions, residency, fellowship, special NIH scholarships, you name it). The faculty readers are very busy people, and any vague or unclear statements detract significantly from your application because the readers have to stop and determine what you mean, or worse, they simply gloss over the unclear statement and thus your application is not improved by that portion. And the readers don't give these applications as much time as you think, so you want your application to be very cohesive. With a cohesive application, the reader gains the sense that the applicant has a clear understanding of their present situation and their future, and also can more easily recall the strong points of the application (e.g. "the kid who studies C. elegans development and wants to become a developmental biologist" rather than "the kid who studies ribosomes but wants to become an ornithologist"). It doesn't really matter whether you actually plan to become a developmental biologist--you're only 19 (20 now!) and everybody changes their minds. But you need your application to be cohesive.

So I guess my biggest piece of advice is to be sure that your entire application is very clearly understandable and cohesive. Perfecting my application to this level took a number of hours. Have your faculty representative and a faculty member unrelated to the process read it and circle anything that is not immediately understandable to them; then see how you can fix it. I perfected the essays for many hours, then had both of my parents and my faculty advisor read my application before I submitted it to my faculty representative. Then a committee read through it and identified anything that needed to be changed.

PM me if you want to see a copy of my successful application. Good luck next year!
 
solitude said:
I don't agree with the other poster that you need a 4.0. I didn't, and I don't think that anybody else who won from my institution this year had one either. It may depend on the institution, though.

I don't agree with myself either, then 😉 Definitely an institution thing -- people here told me that the Goldwater committee highly regards the 4.0, but I didn't have a 4.0, so I think it's bull too 😎
 
ok, hopefully, i will have raised my gpa to above 3.9 by february next year.
 
I really not sure where this emphasis on GPA is from; it most certainly must be an internal school preference. My understanding was always that the research proposal was paramount, and the rest must simply show academic promise/strength, however that was defined. For what it's worth, my GPA was probably around a 3.8x (can't remember) when I received the scholarship named after that nutjob (completely oblivious at the time), and I believe I had a smattering of the standard biology courses admixed with quite a number of history courses. I do agree that the application should sound cohesive, though.
 
Habari said:
I really not sure where this emphasis on GPA is from; it most certainly must be an internal school preference. My understanding was always that the research proposal was paramount, and the rest must simply show academic promise/strength, however that was defined. For what it's worth, my GPA was probably around a 3.8x (can't remember) when I received the scholarship named after that nutjob (completely oblivious at the time), and I believe I had a smattering of the standard biology courses admixed with quite a number of history courses. I do agree that the application should sound cohesive, though.


At least to my understanding, the GPA is emphasized a lot in the preliminary round where the institutional nominees are chosen. But you're probably right that once the applicant reaches the final committee, as long as the applicant shows "academic promise" then the other stuff is more important.

So true on the nutjob comment.
 
About GPAs and Goldwater, I recall reading a university FAQ regarding the Goldwater somewhere (I think it was from a liberal arts college) that stated that the average GPA of accepted students was 3.95 "with a small standard deviation." That said, I'm pretty sure that if someone has stellar research credentials, the selection committee will take that into account.
 
hmm, i hope thats not the case, since its doubtful i would be able to pull my nonscience gpa to 3.95. i have three summers of research, and a 2nd author pub going out, so i dont think its the research quality/quantity that hurt me. i really do wonder if it was just a matter of numbers, then. alas, i will reapply next year, and see what happens.
 
I agree with Habari in that I've heard the research aspect of it is much more important than GPA. You have to be in the top quarter of your class to apply, and the site doesn't list average GPA of awardees - and I know people who got a Goldwater with a <3.7
 
Reimat said:
I agree with Habari in that I've heard the research aspect of it is much more important than GPA. You have to be in the top quarter of your class to apply, and the site doesn't list average GPA of awardees - and I know people who got a Goldwater with a <3.7

That's correct. The Goldwater selection committee weighs the "long" research essay very heavily (at least this is what my Goldwater faculty representative has told me). As long as the essay is compelling and shows your enthusiasm about research, you should be fine.

On another note, I was surprised to read that 323 scholars were selected. Usually, in years past, the number has rarely crossed 300.
 
Hey - congrats!
does anyone know the difference between being selected as an honorable mention as opposed to the award. Besides the money obviously, what would make a student relegated to honorable mention status instead of award status?
 
Congrats...looks like I got one too =)

I'd go off of what everyone else is saying, the long essay is probably the most important part of the application (letter of rec from your PI is also very important).
 
My faculty representative told me the contrary - that the Goldwater committee doesn't put too much weight in the big essay, but rather in GPA and record.

I think he's wrong, though, but it's just food for thought.
 
Teerawit said:
My faculty representative told me the contrary - that the Goldwater committee doesn't put too much weight in the big essay, but rather in GPA and record.

I think he's wrong, though, but it's just food for thought.

Agreeing with most everyone else, I think that a really high GPA (>3.8) is nothing more than a prerequisite for the award: it really does come down to the essay and short answer questions. I got the scholarship last year, and I spent a reaaalllly long time revising and perfecting mine. I tried to integrate my work in synthetic organic chemistry into the larger whole of treating disease. I know people who have applied from my school with similar numbers and did not get it--I think it probably came down to the written application.

That being said, I think it is important to show idealism in your essay, and at the same time showing that you are working with those ideals in mind (and being successful at what you do of course). That sort of thing really impresses scholarship/admissions committees of all kinds.
 
would you say that it is harder for sophomores to get it, as opposed to jrs?
 
Any thoughts on Goldwater Honorable Mention - Why do they have it and what makes one group selected as Honorable mention and others as Award winners?

Thanks.
 
marctam86 said:
would you say that it is harder for sophomores to get it, as opposed to jrs?

The advisor at my school says he thinks that if you have comparable research experience to a junior, then the chances are actually better for sophomores. He says he bases that on how many sophomores vs. juniors he has seen win at our school.

Also, I think a major thing in the application is to stress your interest in basic research, as opposed to translational and/or clinical. Our advisor says he has seen many very well qualified people who indicate MD/PhD and talk about clinical therapies not win, whereas someone just as qualified who proposes a career in evolutionary biology, plants, theroetic physics, etc win.

Again, this is just what he told me when I applied, but he's been around for a while and seems to know what he is talking about reasonably well.
 
Zmoney12 said:
The advisor at my school says he thinks that if you have comparable research experience to a junior, then the chances are actually better for sophomores. He says he bases that on how many sophomores vs. juniors he has seen win at our school.

Also, I think a major thing in the application is to stress your interest in basic research, as opposed to translational and/or clinical. Our advisor says he has seen many very well qualified people who indicate MD/PhD and talk about clinical therapies not win, whereas someone just as qualified who proposes a career in evolutionary biology, plants, theroetic physics, etc win.

Again, this is just what he told me when I applied, but he's been around for a while and seems to know what he is talking about reasonably well.


My advisor specifically told me (I am a sophomore) that she believes there is no preference for sophomores over juniors. However, one extra year can build an application significantly for such a difficult scholarship, so juniors tend to win at a greater percentage than sophomores.

I agree with stressing the interest in basic research over clinical anything.
 
Zmoney12 said:
Also, I think a major thing in the application is to stress your interest in basic research, as opposed to translational and/or clinical.

yikes, i think i mentioned translational research in my app. hmm that may have contributed to my failure this round. ok, ill put a much more "basic science" feel to it next year.

as always, thank you for any input
 
I don't know about the whole basic research thing ... all three students who won the Goldwater from my school were either engineers (the quintessential translational research field) or scientists who wanted to do an MD/PhD and discover new drugs (another translational field).

My advice: Write about your passion. Your essay will be much stronger if you write about something you actually care about rather than just writing what you think the Goldwater committee wants to hear.
 
Blue Planet said:
My advice: Write about your passion. Your essay will be much stronger if you write about something you actually care about rather than just writing what you think the Goldwater committee wants to hear.

i agree, though in my last application, i wrote of my passion and was unsuccessful. as much as i like the project I presented this year, next year, i think i should write a new one (which i hope to present with similar passion). the only thing i worry about is the disparity between the research ive been doing up to now (leprosy mostly) and what ill be doing over the summer (cancer likely). I think cancer would be more appealing, and I'm sure it is something about which I can be passionate.

alas, perhaps im overanalysing this. i suppose there is some degree of randomness to the process of selection. i do appreciate the advice though, thank you.
 
marctam86 said:
i agree, though in my last application, i wrote of my passion and was unsuccessful. as much as i like the project I presented this year, next year, i think i should write a new one (which i hope to present with similar passion). the only thing i worry about is the disparity between the research ive been doing up to now (leprosy mostly) and what ill be doing over the summer (cancer likely). I think cancer would be more appealing, and I'm sure it is something about which I can be passionate.

alas, perhaps im overanalysing this. i suppose there is some degree of randomness to the process of selection. i do appreciate the advice though, thank you.


The Committee places a lot of weight on the fact that you actually have done and are doing research on the subject of your essay. Thus, you should not write what you think would be most desirable. You should write about the subject on which you have performed research and plan to perform further research. You will be (at least, should be) most knowledgable on this subject, will have data, and can best express your potential as a scientist in this manner. At least, that's my opinion.
 
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