Good LAW firm to present a malignant programs?

[lkjhg]

Any LAW FIRM to use when our PD is a jerk (malignant [program) and is wrongfully abusing the residents?please pm me. Thank you.

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[Law2Doc]

Any LAW FIRM to use when our PD is a jerk (malignant [program) and is wrongfully abusing the residents?please pm me. Thank you.

Laws vary state to state, so you'd need to narrow your question to a state. Your best bet is to call your state bar association and ask for a referral.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

For residents in malignant programs, I have to say their legal options suck. Their only chance lies in demonstrating a pattern of abuse targeted by race, etc, and even then it would depend on testimony from the other attendings... which is simply not going to happen either way.

If you have been the victim of a malignant program, please message me.

 

[Top Gun]

Agree. Residents have very little power. If a resident becomes terminated, the program director can easily say the resident was incompetent, unprofessional, or whatever. A court of law would more likely side with the PD than the resident.

 

[Domenech]

You got banned pretty quickly.

 

[Doppleganger]

Yes, the ban was very quick. Agree that residents need a union... we have no pwer... I hav heard of so many stories of residents gtting kicked out of programs and it was totally the programs fault/prejudice one way or the other.

There needs to be a rform in the graduate mdical education system with more protection for residents... and unftunatly the only pple we all fear are lawyers.

I m a contributor to SDN rgularly however do nt wish to reply to controversial issues with my oter handle.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Yes, the ban was very quick. Agree that residents need a union... we have no pwer... I hav heard of so many stories of residents gtting kicked out of programs and it was totally the programs fault/prejudice one way or the other.

There needs to be a rform in the graduate mdical education system with more protection for residents... and unftunatly the only pple we all fear are lawyers.

I m a contributor to SDN rgularly however do nt wish to reply to controversial issues with my oter handle.

Pretty sure the ban was for crossposting what amounted to a PR release for his own legal case. If people got banned for being controversial or talking trash on GME programs, I'd have been history long ago

 

[Chakrabs]

Any LAW FIRM to use when our PD is a jerk (malignant [program) and is wrongfully abusing the residents?please pm me. Thank you.

PM AProgramDirector and ask him if he's ever sat across the aisle from a law firm and what their name was.

 

[Navyanesdoc]

If it is so bad, A complaint to the RRC will fix it, especially if you have a significant number of residents sign an open letter to the RRC. They will come and investigate. You have to have the guts and sign it, but they cant fire a whole pile of you. SOmeone sent a damn letter to the RRC about my residency- I was blamed but didnt do it. Most of the complaints were BS, but it forced the residency to fix the issues that were not being addressed(as required by their rules.) Good Luck

 

[NotAProgDirector]

PM AProgramDirector and ask him if he's ever sat across the aisle from a law firm and what their name was.

As has been mentioned in similar threads, if someone does decide to sue their residency program, they need to choose a law firm in that state. Hence, any experience I have is unlikely to be helpful. Plus, it probably depends on what type of problem you're trying to deal with -- a contract dispute vs true abuse vs other.

On a different note, sometimes the media can help with situations like this. Take that crazy judge that NPR profiled awhile ago. She was untouchable 6 months ago. She's toast now.

 

[otaat]

As has been mentioned in similar threads, if someone does decide to sue their residency program, they need to choose a law firm in that state. Hence, any experience I have is unlikely to be helpful. Plus, it probably depends on what type of problem you're trying to deal with -- a contract dispute vs true abuse vs other.

On a different note, sometimes the media can help with situations like this. Take that crazy judge that NPR profiled awhile ago. She was untouchable 6 months ago. She's toast now.

Here's the link to the story I think aProgDirector is referencing, in case anyone was curious.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/430/very-tough-love

 

[ams81]

Hey PM me.....I had the unfortunate pleasure of having to find the right lawyer.... it took a while but eventually I did and they were able to help me out. If only I found them sooner and this may not be help to you if your not in IL, but at least they can point you in the right direction.

It's hard to find a lawyer that specializes in this or that has experiance in this...because your categorized as an employee and as a student.

and yes i was succesful, and in another program where I am happier

 

[zoner]

Hey PM me.....I had the unfortunate pleasure of having to find the right lawyer.... it took a while but eventually I did and they were able to help me out. If only I found them sooner and this may not be help to you if your not in IL, but at least they can point you in the right direction.

It's hard to find a lawyer that specializes in this or that has experiance in this...because your categorized as an employee and as a student.

and yes i was succesful, and in another program where I am happier

what does the lawyer help you do? couldn't you have just transferred without getting the lawyer involved?

 

[Law2Doc]

what does the lawyer help you do? couldn't you have just transferred without getting the lawyer involved?

Lawyers serve multiple purposes. First, they show you mean business. The functional equivalent of showing your opponent you are armed. Second, if you were capable of working things out on your own, you wouldn't be in the mess you are in, so you hire someone more capable. Third, a lot of the time folks get pushed around because they don't know the law, their rights, or what the contract says. Having a lawyer eliminates this.

As far as transferring, you sound like you think it's easy or a right. In general you need a program with a spot who will take you, and a PD who is at least lukewarm about the idea of you leaving. Nobody wants to snatch up somebody else's headache, so the PD doesn't have to say all that much to sour most opportunities if he chooses. Sometimes a lawyer can help facilitate something you cannot because you have already created a bad relationship.

 

[zoner]

Lawyers serve multiple purposes. First, they show you mean business. The functional equivalent of showing your opponent you are armed. Second, if you were capable of working things out on your own, you wouldn't be in the mess you are in, so you hire someone more capable. Third, a lot of the time folks get pushed around because they don't know the law, their rights, or what the contract says. Having a lawyer eliminates this.

As far as transferring, you sound like you think it's easy or a right. In general you need a program with a spot who will take you, and a PD who is at least lukewarm about the idea of you leaving. Nobody wants to snatch up somebody else's headache, so the PD doesn't have to say all that much to sour most opportunities if he chooses. Sometimes a lawyer can help facilitate something you cannot because you have already created a bad relationship.

is there a law saying that senior residents cannot abuse lower residents? I mean how does malignant behaviors by one or two senior residents be proven to be illegal by the lawyers involved? I guess what I was asking is what does the lawyer actually help you do/win? What exact outcome do you get out of getting the lawyers involved? It really is petty and horrible that students go through that much of training only to be abused by some a%$ ^%&e residents and spend thousands to get the lawyers involved. Didn't people come into this field to help others? Reading these residents forums is really making think third time about going into this field at all.

 

[Top Gun]

is there a law saying that senior residents cannot abuse lower residents? I mean how does malignant behaviors by one or two senior residents be proven to be illegal by the lawyers involved? I guess what I was asking is what does the lawyer actually help you do/win? What exact outcome do you get out of getting the lawyers involved? It really is petty and horrible that students go through that much of training only to be abused by some a%$ ^%&e residents and spend thousands to get the lawyers involved. Didn't people come into this field to help others? Reading these residents forums is really making think third time about going into this field at all.

The majority of residency programs are not abusive. You may get yelled at occasionally for making a mistake, but very few programs have a consistent pattern of abuse toward their residents. The key is to get excellent grades and USMLE scores, so that you can match into a good program. Usually the malignant programs will take lower-quality candidates, and then abuse them when things begin going wrong.

 

[Law2Doc]

is there a law saying that senior residents cannot abuse lower residents? I mean how does malignant behaviors by one or two senior residents be proven to be illegal by the lawyers involved? I guess what I was asking is what does the lawyer actually help you do/win? What exact outcome do you get out of getting the lawyers involved? It really is petty and horrible that students go through that much of training only to be abused by some a%$ ^%&e residents and spend thousands to get the lawyers involved. Didn't people come into this field to help others? Reading these residents forums is really making think third time about going into this field at all.

In general malignancy isn't about residents abusing other residents. Malignancy is a top down phenomenon, where the Chairman or PD is an SOB, and everyone follows suit. If it were just other residents being a problem, you could go over their head and talk it out with th PD. Malignant programs are ones where you can't get an internal resolution because the apple is rotten from the top.

I wouldn't worry about it as a premed. Most programs are not malignant, and these stories are disproportionately represented on this site, because 99% of folks in benign places don't have any need to vent here.

 

[Roguelyn]

If it is so bad, A complaint to the RRC will fix it, especially if you have a significant number of residents sign an open letter to the RRC. They will come and investigate. You have to have the guts and sign it, but they cant fire a whole pile of you. SOmeone sent a damn letter to the RRC about my residency- I was blamed but didnt do it. Most of the complaints were BS, but it forced the residency to fix the issues that were not being addressed(as required by their rules.) Good Luck

This would be a good way to point out any legitimate issues and get them dealt with pretty quickly. We had someone write a letter (no idea who it was) but we've had some major overhauls in some of our documentation. Oddly enough, the complaints were not well-founded, but without documentation it's the anonymous letter versus the PD.

The cases I have heard about involved racism/sexism, hours violations, mid-contract dismissal or wrongful termination. These things can be hard to prove, which is where having a lawyer familiar with residency issues comes in.

The other thing is knowing what you hope to accomplish with your legal maneuvers. If you are hoping to get the PD fired and have the whole program crash and burn, it's probably a good idea to reevaluate what you're doing.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
The other thing is knowing what you hope to accomplish with your legal maneuvers. If you are hoping to get the PD fired and have the whole program crash and burn, it's probably a good idea to reevaluate what you're doing.

this has happened at certain programs, and the ones who inevitably get screwed are the co-residents of the letter writer, who can end up program-less -- sometimes having to spend an extra year or relocate away from friends/family trying to line up a place where they can finish residency. So bear in mind that when you play Norma Rae campaigning against perceived injustices, the folks you bring down if you win ( which is not a certainty) could be your friends. The program director in most cases still has a clinician job to fall back on even if the program goes down in flames.

 

[Roguelyn]

this has happened at certain programs, and the ones who inevitably get screwed are the co-residents of the letter writer, who can end up program-less -- sometimes having to spend an extra year or relocate away from friends/family trying to line up a place where they can finish residency. So bear in mind that when you play Norma Rae campaigning against perceived injustices, the folks you bring down if you win ( which is not a certainty) could be your friends. The program director in most cases still has a clinician job to fall back on even if the program goes down in flames.

Yep, that's exactly my point. I was hoping the OP would think about those consequences on his own.

 

[Substance]

Yep, that's exactly my point. I was hoping the OP would think about those consequences on his own.

If you find yourself at a bad program, you can either switch or put your head down. Trying to be just and honorable just gets your head cut off.