Good Periodontal Program

[ikingleo]

Does anyone know of maybe the top 5 Periodontal Programs in the US or any program that you know out of experience or knowledge, Please list them and if they offer any MSD and PhD's with the program. I'm an international dentist trying to sort out my priorities for admission. I haven't done anything yet, so any good advice will be appreciated, thanks.

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[Aleman]

Does anyone know of maybe the top 5 Periodontal Programs in the US or any program that you know out of experience or knowledge, Please list them and if they offer any MSD and PhD's with the program. I'm an international dentist trying to sort out my priorities for admission. I haven't done anything yet, so any good advice will be appreciated, thanks.

In general, the best program is the cheapest one you can find. Perio programs are generally extremely expensive and not worth the opportunity cost of pursuing given the outrageous tuition and 3 years of extra schooling instead of working.

 

[caffeinehigh]

In general, the best program is the cheapest one you can find. Perio programs are generally extremely expensive and not worth the opportunity cost of pursuing given the outrageous tuition and 3 years of extra schooling instead of working.

I think this is absurd, but anyway.

Top programs usually include San Antonio, Michigan, North Carolina, UCLA, Iowa....

 

[sokrman14]

In general, the best program is the cheapest one you can find. Perio programs are generally extremely expensive and not worth the opportunity cost of pursuing given the outrageous tuition and 3 years of extra schooling instead of working.

Ignorance is bliss!!

We can let him place his own implants, and then send them to us and dig 'em out and place them properly when his placement is unrestorable.

 

[jacksonkelly]

I don't agree that its not worth the expenses

But perio is competitive if you are foreign trained specially state universities.
You might have a good shot the more expensive programs if your gpa, resume is neat. If your country will pay for your education expenses that's a plus! Check www.perio.org for info about all perio progs in US and goodluck

 

[HupHolland]

Lets throw Maryland in the mix..

 

[sarah_bellum]

Top programs usually include San Antonio, Michigan, North Carolina, UCLA, Iowa....

With a current faculty shortage, I don't think UNC deserves this accolade right now. The faculty we have are spectacular, but there's too few.

 

[Mackchops]

I'm not going into perio but I have a couple of friends who did. My impressions from what I've heard around the grapevine...

I would throw NYU onto the list - very clinically heavy and no shortage of patients. I heard someone once throw out the number "200" when asked how many implants they placed. Is that a lot? For a perio program? I don't know. Sounds like it to me.

As I understand it, Maryland doesn't let their residents cut anything until the second year. First year is spent waist-deep in journals.

Penn's Perio/Pros program is 4 years but has trained some of the best and the brightest in the field. I've talked with a few perio residents who were just awed at the level the Penn residents were at when they all got together at some conference. They know their stuff!

Columbia has Tarnow now. Implant God. He might be more invested in the implantology fellowship there? Not exactly sure what his role is, but any program with him on board is going to be a good program.

 

[Aleman]

All data taken from 2009 ADA Survey of Dental Practice series:

Average Full-Time General Practice Salary: $215,120
Average Full-Time Periodontist Salary: $263,200
Average age of Dental School Graduate: 28

Average Total Income produced from age 28-65 for GP: $8,174,560
Average Total Income produced from age 31-65 for Periodontist minus extra tution cost:

Total DebtYearlyTotalNetTotal % more than GP over career-200000$28,475.50 $284,755.01 $9,496,755.01 16.17%-150000$21,356.63 $213,566.25 $9,425,566.25 15.30%-100000$14,237.75 $142,377.50 $9,354,377.50 14.43%-50000$7,118.88 $71,188.75 $9,283,188.75 13.56%-25000$3,559.44 $35,594.38 $9,247,594.38 13.13%-100000$14,237.75 $142,377.50 $9,354,377.50 14.43%0$0.00 $0.00 $9,212,000.00 12.69%10000($1,423.78)($14,237.75)$9,197,762.25 12.52%25000($3,559.44)($35,594.38)$9,176,405.62 12.26%50000($7,118.88)($71,188.75)$9,140,811.25 11.82%100000($14,237.75)($142,377.50)$9,069,622.50 10.95%150000($21,356.63)($213,566.25)$8,998,433.75 10.08%200000($28,475.50)($284,755.01)$8,927,244.99 9.21%
*A negative debt means the program is paying you, rather than you paying tuition

Since most perio programs end up costing, all else being equal you are looking at a ~10-12% greater increase in income over your career. Is an extra 3 years of school and limiting your scope really worth only making 10% more over your career? That's a question you will have to answer for yourself, but definetely not for me...
Remember as well that perio salaries have been declining and are continuing in that trend.

Disclaimer: all data is based on published averages, individual situations may very

 

[charlestweed]

Since most perio programs end up costing, all else being equal you are looking at a ~10-12% greater increase in income over your career. Is an extra 3 years of school and limiting your scope really worth only making 10% more over your career? That's a question you will have to answer for yourself, but definetely not for me...

Yes, it is totally worth it. For the next 25-30 years of your life, would you want to work non-stop from 9am-6pm, 5-6 days/week as a general dentist? Or would you want to work 2-3 hours a day, 2-3 days a week as a periodontist?

It takes a perio less than 30 minutes to place 1 implant….and bring home the net profit of approximately $1000. To earn the same net income, a gp would have to spend 8 hours to do 1 crown preps, 4-5 fillings, 6-7prophys, 2-3 extractions etc. And for an associate general dentist, he/she would have to work 2 days to bring home $1000.

 

[ObviousGuy]

Or do 4-6 years of residency and triple the income of general dentists and periodontists combined AND work three days a week. [OMFS]

Seriously though, why does it always boil down to money?

 

[charlestweed]

Seriously though, why does it always boil down to money?

You will see why when you receive your first student loan bill and file your income tax.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

You can never discount a quality post-grad experience.

But, I am beside myself happy that I matched at an OMS program with VERY cheap medical school education costs.

I believe this can also be applied to any post-graduate program. Perio has the ability to push some $$$ through their practice, no doubt about that. As long as there are patients, you will learn based upon what you put into it.

 

[McKnightRider]

Yes, it is totally worth it. For the next 25-30 years of your life, would you want to work non-stop from 9am-6pm, 5-6 days/week as a general dentist? Or would you want to work 2-3 hours a day, 2-3 days a week as a periodontist?

It takes a perio less than 30 minutes to place 1 implant….and bring home the net profit of approximately $1000. To earn the same net income, a gp would have to spend 8 hours to do 1 crown preps, 4-5 fillings, 6-7prophys, 2-3 extractions etc. And for an associate general dentist, he/she would have to work 2 days to bring home $1000.

you work 2 hours a day 2 days a week? What are you a narcoleptic?

 

[GatorDDS]

Or do 4-6 years of residency and triple the income of general dentists and periodontists combined AND work three days a week. [OMFS]

Seriously though, why does it always boil down to money?

LOL triple???

 

[charlestweed]

you work 2 hours a day 2 days a week? What are you a narcoleptic?

Yep, that's usually how long my wife (a periodontist) works when she works at a gp office. She spends about 1-3 hours to place a couple of implants and to do a couple of consultations. The gp then writes her a check. She gets the check and drives home.

Currently, my wife works 5 days/month at her private practice. When she is not at her private practice, she travels to 9 different GP offices (2 days/month at my sister's gp office, 3 days/month at another gp office....and for the other 7 gp offices, she only comes when the GPs have the implant cases for her). As long as she can get about 20-25 implants every month during this tough economic time, she is happy.

 

[caffeinehigh]

In the end, pursuing post graduate education in any field strictly for the financial gain is not a smart decision. You need to enjoy that scope that you're limiting yourself to. That being said, I would be weary of any program where tuition cost is high (or even present) in any residency. You'll find that many "top" programs pay a stipend. This is not an accident, these programs are able to pay their residents because of the case load that they see (READ: production). For every person making top dollar in a speciality, there is another who is not. For every person who is working 10 hr weeks there is someone working 60 hr weeks in the same field. In the end, the best clinicians, businessmen, and lucky people will make the most money.... regardless of field. Do not discount the earning potential of the GP....

 

[Aleman]

Yes, it is totally worth it. For the next 25-30 years of your life, would you want to work non-stop from 9am-6pm, 5-6 days/week as a general dentist? Or would you want to work 2-3 hours a day, 2-3 days a week as a periodontist?

It takes a perio less than 30 minutes to place 1 implant….and bring home the net profit of approximately $1000. To earn the same net income, a gp would have to spend 8 hours to do 1 crown preps, 4-5 fillings, 6-7prophys, 2-3 extractions etc. And for an associate general dentist, he/she would have to work 2 days to bring home $1000.

Your sample size is N=1; your wife. The story across the nation is very different. Taking in to account opportunity cost and cost of tuition/loan re-payment most of these people are looking at only a 10-12% increase in their income over their career. All the data I pulled from only takes in to account GP's/Perio's that work full time, in order to compare apples to apples. You paint a pretty picture, and that is great that your wife has done so well (she is one of the few), but the reality is different for the majority. If it was a gold mind and perio's were nothing but placing implants all day, why wouldn't residency applicants flock to it? It doesn't add up.

 

[charlestweed]

Your sample size is N=1; your wife. The story across the nation is very different. Taking in to account opportunity cost and cost of tuition/loan re-payment most of these people are looking at only a 10-12% increase in their income over their career. All the data I pulled from only takes in to account GP's/Perio's that work full time, in order to compare apples to apples. You paint a pretty picture, and that is great that your wife has done so well (she is one of the few), but the reality is different for the majority.

Comparing her to her co-residents and upper/lowerclassmen, my wife is probably the least successful periodontist among them. If she was so successful at her private office, she wouldn’t have to travel to 9 different gp offices. Because of the decline in referrals from the general dentists (many gps start hiring in-house periodontists), she has to reduce the overhead by cutting down the workdays to just 5 days/month at her private practice (used to be 12 days/month 11 years ago). The good thing about perio (as well as other specialties) is when your perio office is doing poorly, you can supplement your income by working as a traveling periodontist at various gp offices. A general dentist cannot do this because he/she must stay at the office 8 hours/day, 5-6 day a week to treat walk-in and emergency patients.

My wife practices in a very saturated market so she cannot charge very high fees. Even with the fees that are much lower than the national average, she is still doing very well. The overhead for perio is very low….no lab fees, no expensive dental supplies, low staff salaries. Since she buys large quantity of implants, she gets very good discount from Noble Biocare and Keystone Dental.

If it was a gold mind and perio's were nothing but placing implants all day, why wouldn't residency applicants flock to it? It doesn't add up.

Well, I don’t think perio programs have problem filling the spots. There aren’t a lot of applicants for prosth residency either….and most prosthodontists are doing well.

 

[Quattro DMD]

Yep, that’s usually how long my wife (a periodontist) works when she works at a gp office. She spends about 1-3 hours to place a couple of implants and to do a couple of consultations. The gp then writes her a check. She gets the check and drives home.

Currently, my wife works 5 days/month at her private practice. When she is not at her private practice, she travels to 9 different GP offices (2 days/month at my sister’s gp office, 3 days/month at another gp office....and for the other 7 gp offices, she only comes when the GPs have the implant cases for her). As long as she can get about 20-25 implants every month during this tough economic time, she is happy.

Where did your wife complete her residency if you don't mind me asking? Does she perform other surgical procedures in-house for GP's or just implants?

 

[charlestweed]

Where did your wife complete her residency if you don't mind me asking? Does she perform other surgical procedures in-house for GP's or just implants?

USC perio. The prosth program is right next door. Perio and prosth residents meet every week to learn and discuss implant cases together. My wife learned a lot from her prosth colleagues.

At the gp offices, she does mostly implants and implant related procedures (such as bone grafts and sinus lift). Since many of the GPs, whom my wife works with, have very limited implant experience, my wife, sometimes, has to come to their offices to help them restoring the implants that she places….especially on the patients with multiple implants. She pretty much dictates the whole tx plan: from placement to final restoration.

She still does SC/RP, osseous surgeries, crown lengthening, grafts, canine exposures etc at her own office and at my sister’s gp office. However, she doesn’t like doing them too much because they are more time-consuming than implant placement procedures. Since she already paid off all her student loans, she just wants to do things that are quick and easy so she can spend more time with our kids.

 

[Michael Scarn]

All of you people who think you can come out and work 2-3 days a week are kidding yourselves. As a specialist you are not going to make your referring dentists very happy if their patients can only see you two days a week. "sorry Dr. You will have to send over mrs smith for her implants on Monday. We are closed from Thursday through the weekend."
No way is that dentist going to refer to you.

And to say you can just jump into a dentists office and work for them...
There are lots of problems with this to that many are overlooking.

 

[charlestweed]

All of you people who think you can come out and work 2-3 days a week are kidding yourselves. As a specialist you are not going to make your referring dentists very happy if their patients can only see you two days a week. "sorry Dr. You will have to send over mrs smith for her implants on Monday. We are closed from Thursday through the weekend."
No way is that dentist going to refer to you.

And to say you can just jump into a dentists office and work for them...
There are lots of problems with this to that many are overlooking.

My wife hears these complaints from the referring GPs and the patients they refer to all the time. I am an orthodontist. I only work 5 days/month at one of my busiest offices and I hear similar complaints from my referring GPs as well. We have kids and taking care of our kids is my wife's #1 priority. The GPs still refer to her office because they like her skills and her fees are much better than her competitors. And she doesn't give BS treatment plans with outrageous fees.

 

[Michael Scarn]

That's fantastic that your wife is able to have a great job and be a great mom.

My point is that you simply cannot be as effective or profitable working 3 days a week. This is not to say that one cannot work 3 days. People do it all the time. But to produce the numbers people see on statistics, you simply have to be in the office.

Much like your wife compromises on fees, there will be some financial compromise to get patients in the chair (PPO etc.) and thus significant compromise on income.

 

[charlestweed]

When my wife bought the practice, she worked extremely hard to make her referring GPs happy. She used to work on Saturdays and Sundays. Right now, she is at the point where she is no longer afraid of losing the referrals. There are some GPs who just want to dump the PITA patients to her office and these are the ones who she doesn’t care if she loses their referrals. There some very reliable referring GPs who trust her completely and always refer patients to her office despite her limited availability. She no longer does marketing to gain the new referrals because she is content with what she makes…if she can place 20-25 implants every month, she is happy.

Specializing after dental school was the best decision my wife and I ever made. Many of our general dentist colleagues, who graduated around the same time as us, still have to work very long hours. Many complain about their hand and back problems. And some of them have not done paying back their student loans.

 

[IHeartEndo]

Charles, just wondering...

If your wife worked FT, would she be on equal footing with yourself with respect to income?

 

[charlestweed]

Charles, just wondering...

If your wife worked FT, would she be on equal footing with yourself with respect to income?

Probably not. Ortho can see 60+ patients in a day.

 

[Blue Moose]

The best perio programs are the VA programs. AKA NY, Indy or LA. Patient's dont pay for treatment and you get a stipend.

 

[iukid123]

My buddy is a current resident at VA Indy and is in the middle of his 2nd year and has placed well over a 100 fixtures, is treatment planned for easily another 150 and does tons of soft tissue (CT, etc). He gets paid a little over 50,000 a year. Not bad I'd say...

 

[caffeinehigh]

The best perio programs are the VA programs. AKA NY, Indy or LA. Patient's dont pay for treatment and you get a stipend.

The people I know who interviewed for the VA programs said that there was very little instruction and lecture and that it was basically just a "go for it" clinical environment. I am all for pushing yourself, but you need instruction before just going out there and trying a block graft or sinus....

 

[Quattro DMD]

Mayo pays a GME stipend as well. Does anyone know anything about this program? From looking at the website it looks like a sleeper, lots of oral path and anesthesia and a decent amount of implants.

 

[iukid123]

The people I know who interviewed for the VA programs said that there was very little instruction and lecture and that it was basically just a "go for it" clinical environment. I am all for pushing yourself, but you need instruction before just going out there and trying a block graft or sinus....

I completely agree with you...The residents that are accepted into VA programs seem to have more clinical experience than other programs (ie. GPR, private practice, etc), which is pretty rare among other perio programs if your not an international applicant. Keep in mind though that the VA Indy is in partnership with the IU Perio Progam, where residents do didactic and pay full tuition over there. My buddy definitely was thrown into his first sinus lift, but the director set times up in the med school anatomy lab and they did pseudo sinus lifts on cadavers, which I thought was interesting...

 

[preOMFS]

Is this a trick question?

 

[caffeinehigh]

 

[iukid123]

Is this a trick question?

Ahh, another preOMFSer, getting excited for all that orthognathics, TMJ, trauma, sleep apnea (repose genioglossis advancement and hyoid suspension or MM advancement), alveolar clefts, recon...wait a minute...you'll go thru hell for 4 or 6yrs...you'll probably choose the 6th yr plan due to obvious reasons...no significant other, social inadequacy, wishing you went to med school from the beginning, etc...then end up like 90% of the OS guys doing the same sh** perio is doing everyday, implants. And don't give me the whizzies argument, every other perio practice is doing them...

 

[IHeartEndo]

Ahh, another preOMFSer, getting excited for all that orthognathics, TMJ, trauma, sleep apnea (repose genioglossis advancement and hyoid suspension or MM advancement), alveolar clefts, recon...wait a minute...you'll go thru hell for 4 or 6yrs...you'll probably choose the 6th yr plan due to obvious reasons...no significant other, social inadequacy, wishing you went to med school from the beginning, etc...then end up like 90% of the OS guys doing the same sh** perio is doing everyday, implants. And don't give me the whizzies argument, every other perio practice is doing them...

Oh, no u di'int.

 

[IHeartEndo]

Preach on, brotha...

 

[live]

Have you been up too long and are tired from walking around with your Stethoscope watching real doctors do surgery?

"I am looking into an externship this summer between my 2nd and 3rd year for an OMS externship and have noticed a majority of them require completion of the 3rd year of dental school.

Does anyone have any suggestions where I can look/attend an externship during this time period?

Personal experience or references would be great!!! Thanks in advance."

Interesting that you would put down OMFS when just last year you were trying to set up OMFS externships? Unbelievable, jealous maybe? I think you and iukid need to get over whatever issues you have with OMFS guys. Ya'll are ridiculous. Dentistry rocks (all of it)... perio will always be the little surgical brother to OMFS though. If you can't admit this then you're ignorant. However, every dental specialty has it's place, it's that simple. Grow up and learn to work with each specialty to deliver the best care to patients.

 

[Rockasons]

There are no hard and fast rules to anything - periodontics included. You have to look at the market that you are entering. This is my two cents as a 2nd year resident in periodontics.

Pros to the field:
Advanced training and treatment planning
- Obviously, MOST dental school are there to prepare to graduate and pass National Boards and licensure. Some (and by some I mean a select few) students are savvy enough to extract some forms of advanced training from their respective DDS/DMD educations. However, most is limited. In my residency, we are constantly evaluating cases from successes to failures, with most being failures. That is how you learn to manage the complex nature of perio related cases and avoid pitfalls in your future practice.

High standard of excellence
- When you start to measure your work on a scale of millimeters (and halfs of millimeters), you push yourself towards perfection. In my opinion, perfection is never reach. That is why we call this the PRACTICE of dentistry. But, we can get damn near to perfection if the proper techniques and protocols are maintained.

Preservation of tissues
- Let's face it, I would venture to state that most dentists and specialty fields are focused on the maintenance of the supporting tissues. Atleast I would like to think so. However, I think that periodontics does an excellent job of tissue preservation which yields excellent outcomes. In my opinon, periodontics will continue to ensure that they are successful through the means of soft tissue management and grafting. If perio shies away from this focus, it will ultimately hurt this scope of practice.

Cons to the field:
Egos
- They are everywhere and periodontics is not immune. This has led to fudes with other specialties and general practice, which has ultimately hurt the field of periodontics. Let's face it - generalists are doing more and more. Take a look at the AGD, as they are pushing for their F.A.G.D and MAGD awards. Dentists are using these letters after their names and stating that they are treating to the level of a specialist. Honestly, that is fine with me. If you can treat to the standard of care, than by all means place implants and graft soft and hard tissues. Just man up and understand how to treat a failure if and when they occur because it WILL happen if you do this enough.

A Business of Referrals
- Most periodontists are clincians, not business people. A perio practice is a business of referrals like any other specialty. However, I think that pedodontics and oral surgery are in a niche situation based on their scope of practice. If you are excellent at securing a SOLID referral base or you work out of multiple GP offices, you will be just fine. If not, then this should not be the field for you unless you plan on a career in academics.

High Cost of Training
- As stated before, there is a high cost to train in a perio program. You must love this field or you will be miserable. Call it gum gardening, tissue preservation, etc. This has to get you out of bed in the morning and keep you going throughout the day.

 

[Blue Moose]

All data taken from 2009 ADA Survey of Dental Practice series:

Average Full-Time General Practice Salary: $215,120
Average Full-Time Periodontist Salary: $263,200
Average age of Dental School Graduate: 28

Average Total Income produced from age 28-65 for GP: $8,174,560
Average Total Income produced from age 31-65 for Periodontist minus extra tution cost:

Total DebtYearlyTotalNetTotal % more than GP over career-200000$28,475.50 $284,755.01 $9,496,755.01 16.17%-150000$21,356.63 $213,566.25 $9,425,566.25 15.30%-100000$14,237.75 $142,377.50 $9,354,377.50 14.43%-50000$7,118.88 $71,188.75 $9,283,188.75 13.56%-25000$3,559.44 $35,594.38 $9,247,594.38 13.13%-100000$14,237.75 $142,377.50 $9,354,377.50 14.43%0$0.00 $0.00 $9,212,000.00 12.69%10000($1,423.78)($14,237.75)$9,197,762.25 12.52%25000($3,559.44)($35,594.38)$9,176,405.62 12.26%50000($7,118.88)($71,188.75)$9,140,811.25 11.82%100000($14,237.75)($142,377.50)$9,069,622.50 10.95%150000($21,356.63)($213,566.25)$8,998,433.75 10.08%200000($28,475.50)($284,755.01)$8,927,244.99 9.21%
*A negative debt means the program is paying you, rather than you paying tuition

Since most perio programs end up costing, all else being equal you are looking at a ~10-12% greater increase in income over your career. Is an extra 3 years of school and limiting your scope really worth only making 10% more over your career? That's a question you will have to answer for yourself, but definetely not for me...
Remember as well that perio salaries have been declining and are continuing in that trend.

Disclaimer: all data is based on published averages, individual situations may very

I actually find this post quite amusing. How much time did you take to write up a bunch of B/S figures when you aren't even out of dental school yet? ADA salary surveys are not accurate.

First of all, this post is to discuss the pros/cons of dental residencies, not whether or not its worth going into a specialty. Second of all, anyone who knows anything realizes that these figures you quote are national averages. "Average" being the key word. This takes into account people who work 2 days a week, and people who work for government positions. It also takes into account the rare person who works more on the business side of their practice and less clinical, running multiple offices etc, making a much higher than average income.

When you graduate dental school and you start working as a GP, you will quickly realize that the income you thought you were going to have is not a reality. You will make half of what that average is.

Bottom line: Depends on the location where you practice, obviously certain areas that dont have many specialists will generate a much higher disparity between the incomes of GPs to specialists, vice versa.

preOMFSers... when you get out of your competitive dental school bubble, you will realize that OMFS is actually not that hard to get into, just like most specialty residencies. You will also learn, if you get into OMFS, that you aren't as special as you think you are. OMFS is a great specialty, just like all others. If you have plans to be successful in the future you will realize that you have your place in the field just like everyone else. It makes me laugh when OMFS and Perio guys fight on here like little babies, because honestly the most successful oral surgeons and periodontists I know are the ones who work closely together.

Also, most people in perio absolutely love the specialty. They practice because they love it, not because they are trying to compensate for something. Perio is an art, and those who think they can learn it in a weekend course are delusional.

So... is it worth it to go into a perio residency? Absolutely, but do it because you like the field and not because you think you will be a millionaire right out of school. From personal experience and knowing people in the field however, it is definitely not a problem to take on some additional debt. It will pay off, I promise.

A for which programs are the best... you need to do your research. Some programs are very heavy in research. Some programs are heavy clinical. You need to figure out what you want. If you are interested in academia then you need a program heavy in research. Obviously it goes without saying that stipend programs are preferred but not many of them exist anymore. Some of those that do offer stipends require you to be a US citizen.

 

[preOMFS]

Ahh, another preOMFSer, getting excited for all that orthognathics, TMJ, trauma, sleep apnea (repose genioglossis advancement and hyoid suspension or MM advancement), alveolar clefts, recon...wait a minute...you'll go thru hell for 4 or 6yrs...you'll probably choose the 6th yr plan due to obvious reasons...no significant other, social inadequacy, wishing you went to med school from the beginning, etc...then end up like 90% of the OS guys doing the same sh** perio is doing everyday, implants. And don't give me the whizzies argument, every other perio practice is doing them...

Easy partner! It was a joke.


Good luck with everything though!

 

[germindian123]

Mayo pays a GME stipend as well. Does anyone know anything about this program? From looking at the website it looks like a sleeper, lots of oral path and anesthesia and a decent amount of implants.

Hard to get info, I'm curious too. I know that they take 1 resident every 2 years. Only a few full-time faculty (2), I believe.