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Good total but lopsided...

Discussion in 'MCAT Discussions' started by Zoobaby, Jun 11, 2002.

  1. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench

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    Hi - I'm a new poster and have looked around for someone with a similar score so as not to clog up the forum any more than it is. BUT I'm thinking I'm unique here in that my area is somewhat gray.

    VR-13 PS-9 BS-9 WS-Q

    I don't think I can reproduce that VR score in a re-take, but are two 9's on the science sections going to kill me? I'm not looking to go to Harvard, but I don't want to take my classes at the mall either.

    I know a 31 is good, and I'm not looking for sympathy but what would you do? How would you feel? <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />
     
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  3. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    You're fine. You're score is actually really good. Verbal is the most important section (if you want me to re-post all the websites and quotes (from medical school admissions people) that have confirmed this... PM me or do a search in pre-allo).

    True, your chances at the top 15 probably aren't great... but you're definitely a competitive applicant to most other schools. I would be really surprised if you didn't get in (assuming that your gpa is solid).

    Good luck! and good job!
     
  4. bujji13

    bujji13 Senior Member

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    I agree with Prime: it's definitely better to be lopsided towards the verbal instead of towards the sciences. Your overall score is good, and if you are interested in "top 15" schools, a high BCPM may compensate for the science sections.
     
  5. la9s

    la9s Member

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    My pre-med advisor at Yale said that it depended on the school but that generally the science sections are the most important. Obviously you cant have an obscenely low verbal, butthe most important sections are PS and BS. I would be in interested as to when these correlative studies took place and whether they were USMLE I or II. I had heard that there was a high correlation between Verbal and ones "clinical" performance. Additionally, the BS, to my knowledge, has undergone significant alterations since the early 1990s...going from rote memory to more problem solving. If this is the case, I would imagine that its correlation with academic and clinical performance would have increased. Regardless, I believe a generally balanced score above 30 is the the key issue here. A singular focus upon MCATs is unhealthy and ignores the plethora of studies that seem to suggest strong correlations between personality characteristics and clinical performance. And I doubt "obsessive" is a desirable trait <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  6. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench

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    Hey guys, thanks. I'm nontraditional, 26 yrs old. Graduated from U of Michigan with a 3.4 history major. In my post-bac science classes I have a 3.8. My EC's include pres of my fraternity, bike ride cross country for a charity that serves those with developmental disabilities, marathon in Alaska for the national lukemia and lymphoma society, 2 patents from playing inventor at work (non medical related) and a few other things (need to get more clinical vol work this summer). I'm also a childhood cancer survivor (highschool) and therefore have an "other side of the syrenge" perspective. Hopefully these things will serve me well, I just don't like those 9's.

    No need to repost the quotes about VR, RP, but I'll look them up myself. There is no real consensus, apparently, as to which section is most important. That's part of the reason I'm applying to 9 schools. :)

    Thanks again for all the comments,
    Zoo
     
  7. bruinkid

    bruinkid Senior Member

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    zoobaby-
    you may want to seek an advisor instead of students on this site. Double digits in the science sections are important.
     
  8. Mudd

    Mudd Charlatan & Trouble Maker

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by relatively prime:
    You're fine. You're score is actually really good. Verbal is the most important section (if you want me to re-post all the websites and quotes (from medical school admissions people) that have confirmed this... PM me or do a search in pre-allo).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would love to see these references, because I have never read that from a source other than a national commercial prep course. If you look at the average MCAT scores for people accepted and matriculating to medical school (using AAMC data), BS is always the higest, followed by PS then VR. That makes me think that VR is the least important. From what I have heard from speakers representing various admissions comittees, they confirm that BS is the most important, because "that is the crux of medical school." The only time I ever heard people say VR was most important were people trying to sell an MCAT course.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by bruinkid:
    zoobaby-
    you may want to seek an advisor instead of students on this site. Double digits in the science sections are important.
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I couldn't agree more. You might also want to check out <a href="http://www.aamc.org" target="_blank">the AAMC site</a> and look at the statistics. I'm guessing that's about the only site that isn't biased in some way (whether it is intentional or due to not having enough data points).
     
  9. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench

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    Good call. I have an appointment to talk to a U of Michigan premed advisor tomorrow. I'll ask her about the MCAT scores, how my nontrad status will help me, and weather or not the fact that I took all my science prereqs at night and studied for the MCAT while holding down a 40+ hour/wk job will compensate for the 9's. I.E. is that worth one point each on the BS and PS? I'll report back with her comments...
     
  10. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by la9s:
    <strong>My pre-med advisor at Yale said that it depended on the school but that generally the science sections are the most important. Obviously you cant have an obscenely low verbal, butthe most important sections are PS and BS. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry, but your pre-med advisor is on crack. It may depend on the school to some degree (and maybe at Yale sciences are more important) However, to most schools, verbal is the most important... you want sources to back it up... here...

    "... [Verbal] is considered just as important, if not more important, than the other sections. While interviewing at the University of Chicago, I was told that they gave this section the most weight because this section had the highest correlation to the Medical Board Exam (USLME Part I). ..."

    --www.medicalschool.com/MCAT.htm

    "Verbal reasoning is ostensibly the most important section of the test"

    --Albert Chen, executive director of graduate programs for Kaplan Test Preparation

    The logic behind why verbal is the most important is clear enough. Medical schools can't teach you reading comprehension. However, they can and will teach you the sciences.

    :)
     
  11. ginseng

    ginseng Member

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    I don't want to get into an argument here, but the only source you've sited is UChicago and a guy who works for a commercial test prep company. And I think the reason they site the UChicago example is because its an abberation. Most of the top med schools probably heavily weight the sciences. Med school is not going to RE-TEACH your premed courses. The MCAT is designed to show a mastery of pre-med scientific material and more importantly, and probably MOST importantly, scientific reasoning. Finally, my pre-med advisor has two decades of experience and I am SURE has an intimate knowledge of admissions procedures at the top medical schools. You looked up some internet resources and cut and pasted.
    Talking up the Verbal is designed to do one thing---make sure the kids taking the MCATs dont slack off during that section. They talk it up because the importance of PS and BS is incredibly clear.
     
  12. Mudd

    Mudd Charlatan & Trouble Maker

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by me:
    The only time I ever heard people say VR was most important were people trying to sell an MCAT course.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Response from relatively prime:
    ... to most schools, verbal is the most important... you want sources to back it up... here...

    "Verbal reasoning is ostensibly the most important section of the test"
    --Albert Chen, executive director of graduate programs for Kaplan Test Preparation</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you for posting something to further support my original statement.

    As for the Professional Counselor at Yale being on crack, I'd have a tendency to believe that someone who's sole job is to help students get into medical school might be more credible than someone who's job is to sell MCAT courses.

    Before accusing me of being on crack, please reference the Acceptance/Matriculant data for AAMC and explain why for the past ten years, BS scores have been about a full point higher than VR scores EVERY year.
     
  13. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench

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    Ok now, nobody blow a gasket. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    The U of M advisor tells me that ON THE AVERAGE all three sections are given equal pull. She granted that there are exceptions.

    She didn't think that my 9's were going to hurt me much, and said I should probably not retake. The vast majority of those who studied hard for the first MCAT and din't experience some catastorphy (sickness, bad bubbling etc) on test day either improved slightly, or did slightly worse. She says that if you studied the first time and got a decent score, odds are your re-take score won't be different enough to matter. Again, this is just the GENERAL trend.

    So I'm going full-bore with my apps, and screw the August. I'll take it again next April if I don't get in this winter.

    -Zoo
     
  14. Premed2003

    Premed2003 Senior Member

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    Chemistry Boy, are you the Yale professional counselor? b/c you say "before accusing ME of being on crack.."

    I think it's a typo but it sounds funny <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
     
  15. Mudd

    Mudd Charlatan & Trouble Maker

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Premed2003:
    Chemistry Boy, are you the Yale professional counselor? b/c you say "before accusing ME of being on crack.."

    I think it's a typo but it sounds funny <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I'm neither a counselor nor at Yale. I was just hoping to cut the crack accusation off before it came. My friends, colleagues, and family ask me that enough already. :)
     
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  17. Doctora Foxy

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Zoobaby:
    <strong>That's part of the reason I'm applying to 9 schools. :)

    Thanks again for all the comments,
    Zoo</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why only 9? Most people apply to more, and it will increase your chances.
     
  18. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench

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    Hey DF -

    I'm applying to 9 schools because I don't think my chances will get much better with more than that. I live in Ohio, and we have 6 allopathic schools. They all have some obligation to take Ohio residents, some must take as many as 85%. We also have all levels of schools, Case at the top with O-Sate and Cinci close behind, and MCO, Wright State, and NEOUCOM on the less competitve side. So I've got the spectrum covered here. I'm also applying to Vermont (I love that town) Stanford, and Penn. Stanford and Penn mostly just for the hell of it. Hey, I could get lucky.

    I think my best chances are clearly in Ohio. And that's fine with me 'cause there are some good schools, and tuition is cheap (exept for Case.)

    -Zoo
     

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