"Good vs Bad" job market

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scoopdaboop

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I keep hearing how radiology job market is "good" now, but was bad several years ago, and how it shifts every 5-6 years.

Can anyone link me to articles or tell me what the job offers were when the job market was "bad". Also, when someone says the "job market is bad", does this just imply that an upcoming new attending in his last year of residency/fellowship can't find a job and that they had to go unemployed for several months before landing a position.
 
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Even when the job market was bad, it wasn’t THAT bad

I never knew of a single case of someone who desperately needed to end up in a certain location and failed.

yea , it was harder, people had to do two fellowships to land good jobs, or network like crazy. People had to settle for jobs at the struggling hospital rather than the premier private practice. Nighthawk was always an option. But nobody was going unemployed.
 
I keep hearing how radiology job market is "good" now, but was bad several years ago, and how it shifts every 5-6 years.

Can anyone link me to articles or tell me what the job offers were when the job market was "bad". Also, when someone says the "job market is bad", does this just imply that an upcoming new attending in his last year of residency/fellowship can't find a job and that they had to go unemployed for several months before landing a position.

I know of ppl that had to move to Texas or across country to find jobs. So yes, if you're flexible then it's not dire. The boom and bust cycles are real and we're on the upswing so could be due for a down swing by the time the new R1s graduate. It's hard to predict though, if you love radiology then absolutely go for it.
 
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Even when the job market was bad, it wasn’t THAT bad

I never knew of a single case of someone who desperately needed to end up in a certain location and failed.

yea , it was harder, people had to do two fellowships to land good jobs, or network like crazy. People had to settle for jobs at the struggling hospital rather than the premier private practice. Nighthawk was always an option. But nobody was going unemployed.

So it was more people exaggerating and acting entitled than it being a case were there were 10 radiologists per job.
 
Everything is relative. Bad job market means different in Medicine compared to for example "social sciences".

When it was bad, it was bad for people who wanted to enter the market. Otherwise, the ones who were in practice, didn't feel anything.

For people entering the market, it was hard if they wanted to stay in big coastal cities. Some had to do a second fellowship, some had to get a "less than ideal" job and some had to move. "Less than ideal job" didn't mean that they ended up flipping burger. It meant probably 10-15% less starting salary or 1-2 years more to partnership or having to do mammo or evening or night shifts. Moving also didn't mean that people had to move from NYC to North Dakota. It meant probably moving from NYC to Virginia or North Carolina.

The bad job market happened after 2009 stock market crash which resulted in delayed retirements (which is easily doable in radiology compared to let's say trauma surgery). Once the market got back to its pre-crash levels, people started to retire one after the other. The 2009 crash in that scale is something that might not happen more than 1-2 times per our life-time.

Long story short, if you want to choose radiology or any other field, the temporary fluctuations in job market should not be a factor.
 
Everything is relative. Bad job market means different in Medicine compared to for example "social sciences".

When it was bad, it was bad for people who wanted to enter the market. Otherwise, the ones who were in practice, didn't feel anything.

For people entering the market, it was hard if they wanted to stay in big coastal cities. Some had to do a second fellowship, some had to get a "less than ideal" job and some had to move. "Less than ideal job" didn't mean that they ended up flipping burger. It meant probably 10-15% less starting salary or 1-2 years more to partnership or having to do mammo or evening or night shifts. Moving also didn't mean that people had to move from NYC to North Dakota. It meant probably moving from NYC to Virginia or North Carolina.

The bad job market happened after 2009 stock market crash which resulted in delayed retirements (which is easily doable in radiology compared to let's say trauma surgery). Once the market got back to its pre-crash levels, people started to retire one after the other. The 2009 crash in that scale is something that might not happen more than 1-2 times per our life-time.

Long story short, if you want to choose radiology or any other field, the temporary fluctuations in job market should not be a factor.

Tell that to the people in the Radonc forum. Seems like half of them have trouble finding a job period.
 
Tell that to the people in the Radonc forum. Seems like half of them have trouble finding a job period.
They seem to have seen it coming for a while and kept on screwing it up anyways. Something like doubling the number of residency slots in under 10 years? I mean even Derm would start losing its sheen if they flooded the market with new grads to an extreme
 
They seem to have seen it coming for a while and kept on screwing it up anyways. Something like doubling the number of residency slots in under 10 years? I mean even Derm would start losing its sheen if they flooded the market with new grads to an extreme

The increase in Rad Onc residencies look comparable to EM, IM, anesthesia, etc based on the data below. So I’m still not sure how Rad Onc got screwed so hard
 

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The increase in Rad Onc residencies look comparable to EM, IM, anesthesia, etc based on the data below. So I’m still not sure how Rad Onc got screwed so hard

EM and IM grew out of a huge national need. The US got a D rating in EM services because there were way too few specialists running the emergency departments, very often (and still) ERs are staffed with FM or IM specialists. They really needed to do some catching up.

Additionally, since IM disproportionately specializes in “old people” diseases, they are much more likely to be hit hard with the aging boomer population.

With RadOnc you can make somewhat the same argument as IM, but it’s a pretty cush gig, and so there’s a lot of wiggle room to increase productivity if reimbursements drop. Which is what happened with radiology before. And is happening with radonc still. Lots of radonc residencies are opening up not because of a shortage or radoncs(there isn’t one) but because older faculty realize they can subsidize their salaries with trainees while reimbursements drop while selling it as a service.

Probably the single biggest reason I didn’t go into the field. When I discussed with one potential adviser about my concern regarding this, he immediately denied knowledge of the thing and was subsequently persistently rude after. I was supposed to start a research project with him, but he ghosted me thereafter (I definitely was never rude or unpleasant to him in any way). That was the end of my RadOnc pursuit. The old guard know what they’re doing, at least some of them.

The good news (or bad depending on your perspective) is the wiggle room in radiology is gone which was responsible for past job market ruts. so assuming there aren’t policy or infrastructural changes, we aren’t going to slip into a bad market again. AI may improve the rate at which lists are cleared which may reduce the need for radiologists somewhat. Additionally, reformulation of Medicare’s reimbursement structure may end up shoving radiologists out of the equation in a lot of ways, especially if hospital admins don’t see “value added” of radiologists. This latter is a much bigger threat to the future of radiology. Otherwise, given the current state of the market, the rate at which imaging is increasingly utilized, and the aging population, I sincerely doubt we will have any problems with job availability in the next 15 years.
 
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