goodbye anesthesia :(

[AOX4]

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i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

 

[Mman]

i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

Probably for the best. If you need people to grovel in front of you then anesthesia isn't the best line of work. We get blamed for everything all day long.

But it's fine.

If something bad really happens, they are begging for me to come save the patient.

As for watching a CRNA successfully "preform" a block? I could teach a 12 year old to do a supraclavicular block successfully in about 25 minutes. Doesn't mean they should be doing it or are capable of considering all the pharmacology and physiology and dealing with complications, but they would have no problem doing it. Technical skills are just skills. It's all about repetition.

 

[Mokki]

I agree 100%. But how does a CRNA react when troubleshooting is required or when things start circling the drain...STAT overhead Attending Anesthesiologist!!!

As for watching a CRNA successfully "preform" a block? I could teach a 12 year old to do a supraclavicular block successfully in about 25 minutes. Doesn't mean they should be doing it or are capable of considering all the pharmacology and physiology and dealing with complications, but they would have no problem doing it. Technical skills are just skills. It's all about repetition.

 

[maceo]

i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

I can believe that. happens all the darn time. but not only to anesthesiologists.. they talk about surgeons and everyone else... but i dont dis agree with you. sometimes its a tough tough tough environment.

 

[periopdoc]

i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform [sic] a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

Good idea. In fact you should probably tell all of your friends about how bad anesthesiologists have it.

- pod

 

[gman33]

It seems like every field gets s%^t on by other fields.
As long as I enjoy what I'm doing, I guess it really doesn't matter what others think.

 

[cfdavid]

I can believe that. happens all the darn time. but not only to anesthesiologists.. they talk about surgeons and everyone else... but i dont dis agree with you. sometimes its a tough tough tough environment.

The sooner you realize the hospital is a gigantic back-stabbing machine the better.....

I think the OP needs to go into EM, for loads of respect.....😎

Really though, all specialties love to bash on the others. However, when you are good, everyone knows it, and you'll be the "exception". OR, your partnership is the "exception".

Ever see the way a 5th year surgical resident bashes an IM resident?? Meantime, they consult nephrology for a clear case of hypovolemic hypernatremia.......

The best docs, as a general rule, are the best because they're smart and humble. So, you'll notice that they tend to be more respectful. On rounds in the CCU the other day, a new patient comes in overnight (I wasn't on call, so pt was also new to me) and the attending (who did the cath on this patient) says, "the anesthesiologist saved this patients life". "he noticed ST-elevations on his little 3-lead II strip, stopped the procedure from happening, got us involved, and we took her emergently to the cath lab"...... "If not for the anesthesiologist this patient may not have made it". No joke. And I promise you the "Anesthesiology" on my lab coat wasn't incentive for this veteran attending to attempt to stroke my PGY1 ego. He meant it.

Others have stated, OP, that if you need constant affirmation, then anestheisology really may be something you'll want to avoid.

Good luck.👍

cf

 

[Bertelman]

I've noticed the docs that bash other specialties tend to be the more insecure ones.

 

[Narcotized]

Probably for the best. If you need people to grovel in front of you then anesthesia isn't the best line of work.

I don't find this to be a constructive attitude. Stating the fact that the work day has a disproportionate amount of rude disrespect in anesthesia is not the same as needing to be groveled upon. A little backbone in the field of simply standing up for yourself (not the same as needing groveling) goes a long way to make your and your colleagues day a lot better.

I worked in a spineless department similar to what the op and others (orangele) have discribed. It was intolerable. No man worth his salt would allow that disrespect/abuse, yet so many in this field not only take it like a whipped puppy, but then they get jealousy upset with others who simply stand up for a positive level environment (ie, I don't need my ass kissed or groveled upon, and I ain't kissing or groveling yours either). I left that miserable stinkin job and presently work in a group that has what seems to have a solid strong mutual respect among the surgeons, rns, anesthetists etc. The different feeling of going to work is night and day.

I wish the OP had stayed in anesthesia because I feel the field suffers from a critical lack of backbone. People say take the dispect and abuse like a man, and then wonder why the field isn't fighting strong against the crna association. With these passive weak attitudes, crna's and everyone else will eat our lunch all day long. Not looking for any personal battle here; just found the comments to the original poster to be very counter-productive.

 

[narcusprince]

I've noticed the docs that bash other specialties tend to be the more insecure ones.

B
What is their to be insecure about?
Originally
Posted by AOX4
What are my chances at a good Chicago Allopathic program? I go to a DO school:
-bottom 25%
-198/81 USMLE
-408/76 COMLEX
-some research

 

[Jeff05]

i saw a nurse start an IV the other day and an EMT intubate, clearly there is nothing else to be offered by a physician.

also, to the OP, you have essentially zero chance of matching into anesthesiology.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

i love EM but i feel like the nights and weekends will get old..i'm considering neuro..salaries have increased in the last few years and not as much night/weekends (from what i've seen).

I have a 198/81..is anesthesia a possibility for me? i'm a DO student and unfortunately a bad test taker, but i am killing my rotations. hopefully PD's will look pass this!

as a resident how many of your shift are nights or weekends? how about as an attending? ive heard other residents tell me that you can expect 2/3 of your shifts to be nights or weekends.

bump..

anyone care of add more to this thread? What specality can give you a better lifestyle neuro or EM?

i know some peeps got upset with me posting the same question in different forums. i just want to clarify that i'm a ms3. i have a lot of interests at this point. i just wanted to know what I was competitive for, right now im thinking community neuro or IM programs or maybe osteopathic EM

to recap i'm a DO student at the bottom 25% of my class with a usmle score of 198/81 and comlex of 408/76. i'm hoping to move back to chicago for residency. i know i sucked my first 2 years of med school but i'm kicking butt on rotations!!

So you can't decide on a specialty, are mostly concerned with lifestyle and hours, "sucked" the first two years of med school, have crappy board scores and are a bad test-taker🙄?

 

[Narcotized]

So you can't decide on a specialty, are mostly concerned with lifestyle and hours, "sucked" the first two years of med school, have crappy board scores and are a bad test-taker🙄?

lol. Well, now that you shed some more light on the situation.... I still think his initial post here was valid, but, um, yes you will have a very tough time matching in anesthesia (not impossible, but a long shot at best), and it's just a deep hole you dug for yourself and will have to accept responsibility and move on.

If I can advise the OP, cross EM faster off your list than you crossed anesthesia. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of disrespected disciplines.

 

[IlDestriero]

So you can't decide on a specialty, are mostly concerned with lifestyle and hours, "sucked" the first two years of med school, have crappy board scores and are a bad test-taker🙄?

Neurology used to be non competitive, maybe you'll get lucky and it still is.👍

 

[Bertelman]

B
What is their to be insecure about?
Originally
Posted by AOX4
What are my chances at a good Chicago Allopathic program? I go to a DO school:
-bottom 25%
-198/81 USMLE
-408/76 COMLEX
-some research

I was referring to CF's post, but that was good, man.

 

[Don8455]

.

 

[Apollyon]

Whenever I see something like this thread ("Goodbye (this or that)"), I think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQFWAIFzoZ4

 

[AOX4]

I was referring to CF's post, but that was good, man.

you know what..a few years from now..i'll be a doctor not some glorified nurse. i think your personal attacks show that you are insecure about your chosen field.

PS to the other mature sdn posters..thank you!

 

[Brachyury]

you know what..a few years from now..i'll be a doctor not some glorified nurse. i think your personal attacks show that you are insecure about your chosen field.

PS to the other mature sdn posters..thank you!

I'd rather be a glorified nurse than end-up in psychiatry or primary care like you; have fun!

 

[BLADEMDA]

Here is my response to the AANA and those who "mouth off" at their supervisors:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUc62jD-G0o

Turn the volume up!!

Now, join the fight. Donate to the ASA PAC and fight back the unqualified Solo CRNA.

 

[Shadowboricua]

MDs = bunch of abused geeks on a power trip ;-)

 

[cfdavid]

you know what..a few years from now..i'll be a doctor not some glorified nurse. i think your personal attacks show that you are insecure about your chosen field.

PS to the other mature sdn posters..thank you!

Stop being such a tool. Just stop it.

 

[Southpaw]

i'm doing an elective anesthesia rotation at a reputable program and honestly i've been really turned off by what i've seen. Surgeons, RNs, CRNAS all crap on anesthesiologist both in front of and behind their backs. I know i'm trolling here but seriously?! In fact, today i saw a CRNA successfully preform a block!! i'm crossing off anesthesia as a possible specialty...

dude, just leave. No one cares why you don't like our great field. If you don't have a spine, don't take up for yourself, or don't provide good care, then sure you're going to get jumped all over. Who cares what you saw a nurse do? I don't. They don't do it where I train, and I won't be part of that crap when I finish training.

Right now anesthesiology needs competitive applicants willing to fight politically and work hard. From what I've read of your post history, you will not fit well into this specialty, and it's highly debatable if you could even match into this field. Good luck to you.

 

[Bertelman]

you know what..a few years from now..i'll be a doctor not some glorified nurse. i think your personal attacks show that you are insecure about your chosen field.

PS to the other mature sdn posters..thank you!

I never attacked you, dude. My comment was referring to cfdavid's post, who commented on the general bashing of physicians on other groups of physicians in the hospital, basically the exact reason why you chose not to pursue anesthesia (or so you tell us). I was disparaging the physicians that discouraged you from anesthesia.

I was actually rather ambivalent about your original post, but now I'm starting to believe you may be too sensitive for quite a few of the specialties that involve collaboration and consultation with other physicians.

 

[GasEmDee]

I never attacked you, dude. My comment was referring to cfdavid's post, who commented on the general bashing of physicians on other groups of physicians in the hospital, basically the exact reason why you chose not to pursue anesthesia (or so you tell us). I was disparaging the physicians that discouraged you from anesthesia.

I was actually rather ambivalent about your original post, but now I'm starting to believe you may be too sensitive for quite a few of the specialties that involve collaboration and consultation with other physicians.

I agree. He comes across rather sensitive. If that is his real-world personality, crossing off anesthesia is a good course of action. I wish him luck finding a more suitable specialty.

 

[veetz]

MDs = bunch of abused geeks on a power trip ;-)

If you endured through undergrad, med school, internship, residency, & possibly a fellowship, you might feel entitled a bit too.

 

[rem6775]

While I think this original post was rather pointless, I think some of you guys might underestimate how much the consistent complaining and panic talk can influence people in our shoes. I find anesthesiology quite interesting (although admittedly it's probably number 3 simply because other stuff draws me in more), but any hopes it has of jumping up spots often get dashed when I read some of these threads. Maybe it's different for someone who is drawn primarily toward anesthesiology, but the negativity is certainly draining.

 

[BLADEMDA]

While I think this original post was rather pointless, I think some of you guys might underestimate how much the consistent complaining and panic talk can influence people in our shoes. I find anesthesiology quite interesting (although admittedly it's probably number 3 simply because other stuff draws me in more), but any hopes it has of jumping up spots often get dashed when I read some of these threads. Maybe it's different for someone who is drawn primarily toward anesthesiology, but the negativity is certainly draining.

I accept full responsibility for all the negativity. Nobody on this Board has been more of a "Debbie Downer" than me. However, I felt an obligation to Medical Students to tell the truth as I see it. I felt my posts had to be made so the full story can be told. Think of it as "Full Disclosure." I want Med Students to know what they are getting into and the problems we face in the next 5 years.

I share a great deal of blame for creating this mess. But, together (the up and coming MD/DOs combined with those few of us in practice who still care) we can save the Medical Specialty of Anesthesiology from the Noctors.

Blade

 

[sideways]

Do the noctors lord themselves over med students on rotation? I get the feeling that they'll interact with med students as if they're superiors (in the sense that they act as if they are physicians and expect to be given the requisite respect). And I also get the feeling that as med students we have to pretend they're correct.

I'm getting several simultaneous flavors of vomit swirling around in my mouth just thinking about about it.

 

[sevoflurane]

I accept full responsibility for all the negativity. Nobody on this Board has been more of a "Debbie Downer" than me. However, I felt an obligation to Medical Students to tell the truth as I see it. I felt my posts had to be made so the full story can be told. Think of it as "Full Disclosure." I want Med Students to know what they are getting into and the problems we face in the next 5 years.

I share a great deal of blame for creating this mess. But, together (the up and coming MD/DOs combined with those few of us in practice who still care) we can save the Medical Specialty of Anesthesiology from the Noctors.

Blade

👍

These issues are important and we need to create awareness within our field and to those who may be joining it. The time to stop this was years ago, but that is in then and this in now. I have found my calling in anesthesia and I really don't want to give that up in ANY way... especially to nurses that have not put in 1/10th the amount of work or sacrifice that we all have. Most importantly, americans deserve the best care out there... just like everywhere else in the world.

 

[sevoflurane]

Do the noctors lord themselves over med students on rotation? I get the feeling that they'll interact with med students as if they're superiors (in the sense that they act as if they are physicians and expect to be given the requisite respect). And I also get the feeling that as med students we have to pretend they're correct.

I'm getting several simultaneous flavors of vomit swirling around in my mouth just thinking about about it.

It also happens at the Ca-1 level and many times beyond that.

 

[sideways]

It also happens at the Ca-1 level and many times beyond that.

WTF?! Under what authority?

 

[Bertelman]

Do the noctors lord themselves over med students on rotation? I get the feeling that they'll interact with med students as if they're superiors (in the sense that they act as if they are physicians and expect to be given the requisite respect). And I also get the feeling that as med students we have to pretend they're correct.

I'm getting several simultaneous flavors of vomit swirling around in my mouth just thinking about about it.

A med student should never be in a room with a CRNA. So No.

It also happens at the Ca-1 level and many times beyond that.

Not at my program. At best, we treat them as colleagues.

 

[sevoflurane]

WTF?! Under what authority?

It happened at my residency with a couple of CRNA's that had been there for 15+ years. We never shared rooms, but we would get them out at 3-4 pm. And when we did, there were a couple that showed some serious attitude. The unfortunate part is that in some places: Attending>Crna>Resident, cuz we are easily replaced... which is complete BS.

All I can say is that anesthesia is an AMAZING specialty. I find my self in the ortho, ent, peds, urology, cardiac, ob, trauma, block rooms... etc, etc... and I am so enormously happy I chose this field.... it's ridiculous. I find myself thinking... dang... "so happy I didn't do this or that" I'm truly psyched to get up and go to work every single day.

On call yesterday:

AVR, 2 ECT's, 1 TKA, ex-lap. Then home at around 4pm. Called back at 2:00am for post-tonsillar bleed in a 4 y/o downs kid. Slept the rest of the night. Fun medicine all day long.... none of this "let's up your beta blocker and see what happens, or clinic, or whatever.... " It's in your face, every day. Some days are tougher than others, but the gig as a whole is tons of fun.

 

[sevo85288]

yea, ED docs are treated very well and not crapped on. Oh, and hospitalists too. They are loved by RNs, other docs. Cardiologists are getting a lot of respect by CMS and Cardiac surgeon are doing well getting paid $50/hr post tax doing hearts. OBGYN are doing well as they get tons of respect from midwives. And the FP down the road is getting lots of love from DNPs in town. There is a lot of love everywhere but anesthesia land. It's time to grow up and open your eyes.

 

[GasEmDee]

👍

These issues are important and we need to create awareness within our field and to those who may be joining it. The time to stop this was years ago, but that is in then and this in now. I have found my calling in anesthesia and I really don't want to give that up in ANY way... especially to nurses that have not put in 1/10th the amount of work or sacrifice that we all have. Most importantly, americans deserve the best care out there... just like everywhere else in the world.

Couldn't agree more.

Plus I am sick of everyone and their mother claiming equivalence and assigning themselves a doctor title.

 

[GasEmDee]

It happened at my residency with a couple of CRNA's that had been there for 15+ years. We never shared rooms, but we would get them out at 3-4 pm. And when we did, there were a couple that showed some serious attitude. The unfortunate part is that in some places: Attending>Crna>Resident, cuz we are easily replaced... which is complete BS.

When I was a transitional intern on my anesthesia rotation, I was assigned to this particular anesthesia attending. I walked into the room, and I asked the anesthetist in that room if she was Dr. So-and-so. Her expression turned sour, and she gave me a curt no. She introduced herself to me by her first name. She did not say she was a CRNA, but I then read it on her badge.

Later on, we went to see a patient together. Despite the fact that she saw my badge (and that I introduced myself to her as the intern), she decided to retaliate by introducing me as the medical student.

Some of these people have some serious grudges.

 

[XBrite]

As a CA-1, I have had to relieve few CRNAs over the last few weeks. Most of them don't seem to know patients history, and are ready to get out of the room faster than lightening. Maybe there are some who care about whats happening to the patient, I have yet to see one 🙄.

 

[Don8455]

I accept full responsibility for all the negativity. Nobody on this Board has been more of a "Debbie Downer" than me. However, I felt an obligation to Medical Students to tell the truth as I see it. I felt my posts had to be made so the full story can be told. Think of it as "Full Disclosure." I want Med Students to know what they are getting into and the problems we face in the next 5 years.

I share a great deal of blame for creating this mess. But, together (the up and coming MD/DOs combined with those few of us in practice who still care) we can save the Medical Specialty of Anesthesiology from the Noctors.

Blade

Blade, I have nothing but love for you. I sometimes tire of your relentless negativity but ultimately you speak the truth. Thank you for being such a positive force for our field.

 

[tkim]

If I can advise the OP, cross EM faster off your list than you crossed anesthesia. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of disrespected disciplines.

Very true.

 

[RiskyFugu]

B
What is their to be insecure about?
Originally
Posted by AOX4
What are my chances at a good Chicago Allopathic program? I go to a DO school:
-bottom 25%
-198/81 USMLE
-408/76 COMLEX
-some research

Hold on there, pal. I’m not saying that I agree with the logic of the original poster, but digging up his personal info to bash him personally is pretty f-ing lousy on your part.


The guy had a complaint that some of us find unreasonable. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to attack him personally for it.

 

[ProRealDoc]

Do the noctors lord themselves over med students on rotation? I get the feeling that they'll interact with med students as if they're superiors (in the sense that they act as if they are physicians and expect to be given the requisite respect). And I also get the feeling that as med students we have to pretend they're correct.

I'm getting several simultaneous flavors of vomit swirling around in my mouth just thinking about about it.

I can honestly say I had a blast during residency putting people in their place. From murses to CRNA-loving attendings, I stopped at nothing to speak out against injustice towards residents and told a good number of circulators, CRNAs, ICU nurses and attendings to f*ck-off directly to their face.

The end result: they offered me a job.

 

[Taurus]

I can honestly say I had a blast during residency putting people in their place. From murses to CRNA-loving attendings, I stopped at nothing to speak out against injustice towards residents and told a good number of circulators, CRNAs, ICU nurses and attendings to f*ck-off directly to their face.

The end result: they offered me a job.

👍

 

[IlDestriero]

you know what..a few years from now..i'll be a doctor not some glorified nurse. i think your personal attacks show that you are insecure about your chosen field.

PS to the other mature sdn posters..thank you!

You came and posted your little rant here unnecessarily about a field that you don't have much (any) chance to even match in, get called on it, and than you post that. People here are very happy with anesthesia, even Blade. He's not happy with CRNAs, but he's not saying he wished he was a dentist. Glorified nurse. You'll go far big boy.
You sound like you'd make a great CT surgeon, but your scores probably won't get you far their either.
Good luck!

 

[pgg]

Hold on there, pal. I’m not saying that I agree with the logic of the original poster, but digging up his personal info to bash him personally is pretty f-ing lousy on your part.


The guy had a complaint that some of us find unreasonable. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to attack him personally for it.

Beating down trolls and the clueless with their own words posted elsewhere in the same public forum is a time honored tradition with a long and glorious history.

Narcusprince wasn't out of line IMO. Far from it, actually. 🙂

 

[geogil]

Hold on there, pal. I’m not saying that I agree with the logic of the original poster, but digging up his personal info to bash him personally is pretty f-ing lousy on your part.


The guy had a complaint that some of us find unreasonable. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to attack him personally for it.

He posted in on SDN, so he obviously wanted someone to know about it.

 

[cfdavid]

Beating down trolls and the clueless with their own words posted elsewhere in the same public forum is a time honored tradition with a long and glorious history.

Narcusprince wasn't out of line IMO. Far from it, actually. 🙂

 

[chocomorsel]

I can honestly say I had a blast during residency putting people in their place. From murses to CRNA-loving attendings, I stopped at nothing to speak out against injustice towards residents and told a good number of circulators, CRNAs, ICU nurses and attendings to f*ck-off directly to their face.

The end result: they offered me a job.

Damn, where did you do residency? Wish I was there. All my department wants is for you to sit there and take all kinda crap, long as everybody else stays happy. If you stand up for yourself you are being UNPROFESSIONAL and are reprimanded. Why are so many anesthesiologists so damn spineless? Are we not MD's/DO's who deserve mutual respect? Not asking to be worshiped or anything, just equal respect you know. Treat me like I treat you and don't think you can walk all over me because I'm a resident. That's all I ask. Even the friggin secretaries think they can treat you like crap and nothing happens to them. And truly they are right.

Can't wait to be an attending and get the **** out of this ship. Seriously. I sure hope to God it's only this department, but I have a feeling as a profession, we are pretty darn weak. My PD told me a long time ago, to just ignore them and laugh all the way to the bank. But it ain't all about the damn money. Sure it makes a difference, but I would rather make less and be in a place that treats me well verses the other way around. I am no one's bitch, but as a resident at this place, I have to be. Sucks. 🙄

 

[Consigliere]

Damn, where did you do residency? Wish I was there. My department is so friggin' spineless, all they want you to do is sit there and take it with no vaseline. Long as everybody else stays happy. If you stand up for yourself you are being UNPROFESSIONAL and are reprimanded. Why are so many anesthesiologists so damn spineless? WTF are we? Are we not MD's/DO's who deserve mutual respect? Not asking to be worshiped or anything, just equal respect you know. Treat me like I treat you and don't think you can walk all over me. That's all I ask. Even the friggin secretaries think they can treat you like crap and nothing happens to them. And trully they are right.

Can't wait to be an attending and get the **** out of this dump. Seriously. I sure hope to God it's only this department, but I have a feeling as a profession, we are pretty darn weak. My PD told me a long time ago, to just ignore them and laugh all the way to the bank. But it ain't all about the damn money. Sure it makes a difference, but I would rather make less and be in a place that treats me well verses the other way around. I am no one's bitch, but as a resident at this place, I have to be. Sucks. 🙄

Hang in there pal. It DOES get better in private practice; you just have to learn to stand up for yourself since you obviously aren't encouraged to do that at your residency program.

 

[Intensivist]

I can honestly say I had a blast during residency putting people in their place. From murses to CRNA-loving attendings, I stopped at nothing to speak out against injustice towards residents and told a good number of circulators, CRNAs, ICU nurses and attendings to f*ck-off directly to their face.

The end result: they offered me a job.

👍 👍 👍 👍