Got Reinstated after Academic Dismissal....Is Anesthesia still a Possibility???

[Mr. Osh Kosh]

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So long story short I had the worst summer of my life after finding out that I had been dismissed from my allopathic school for academic reasons. Even though everyone I talked to said that I had no chance I put my heart and soul into my appeal package and ended up getting reinstated. I am currently repeating second year and am doing average to above average in all my classes (and might potentially have honored a class but not sure yet). I genuinely believe that my poor performance last year was due to depression and now that I'm better it really is amazing how much better I've been able to retain information because not only am I studying almost the same way I did last year but I'm not even putting in as much time (last year it felt like I was studying almost 24/7).

Anyway, I failed a class my first sem of med school and then three classes last year, so obviously I know that there are some serious red flags with my application. As much as I know it's a long shot, I really want to match anesthesiology and don't care about prestige or location. If it is even remotely possible, what kind of board score should I aim for to match SOMEWHERE in anesthesiology? And if there are any other suggestions any of you might have I would greatly appreciate it, I know that for someone with my record I shouldn't get my heart set on something even moderately competitive, but getting into anesthesiology would be a dream come true for me.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm glad that you got reinstated.

I am going to quote some excellent advice from another very similar thread:

I feel a bit like a broken record on this, but it baffles me when people post some variation of:

"I failed X......can I still do Y residency/career/etc?"

What they SHOULD be posting is a variation of:

"I failed X...can you help me figure out why I failed at X so I don't make the same mistake again?"


OP, I know it sucks and you feel bad and I promise you I'm not trying to make you feel worse, but your first priority needs to be a complete re-evaluation of your study habits and time management going forward. M1 is one of the easiest parts of med school academically speaking and it will only get tougher going forward.

People who were qualified enough to be admitted to medical school only fail for a handful of really big reasons. Why else do you think it's such a red flag on an application even after you eventually pass? People will wonder: substance abuse? mental illness? burnout? immaturity? unhealthy relationships? illness? family instability? etc. Mostly, it's the first 2 of those that people are really wondering about, especially in someone who otherwise goes on to do very well. That may not be the case here and obviously those are very personal and very serious issues, but I would encourage you to seek help if there's even the slightest chance something like that could be going on.

You need to do some serious self-searching and have some private conversations with people you trust so you can fix whatever happened. There is also no guarantee you'll pass the remediation without changing your approach and then you'll be stuck repeating all of 1st year. Definitely take advantage of any and all tutoring or faculty-led reviews or whatever else is available going forward.

Long term, if this is an isolated thing and you address the underlying issues, you'll probably do just fine. You'll have no trouble matching radiology somewhere. I think the reason for the decline in stats has more to do with the proliferation of programs. You'll have to address the failure in your application and interviews, but if it ends up being isolated and your steps and clinicals are good, you'll probably do just fine in the match.

 

[DermViser]

So long story short I had the worst summer of my life after finding out that I had been dismissed from my allopathic school for academic reasons. Even though everyone I talked to said that I had no chance I put my heart and soul into my appeal package and ended up getting reinstated. I am currently repeating second year and am doing average to above average in all my classes (and might potentially have honored a class but not sure yet). I genuinely believe that my poor performance last year was due to depression and now that I'm better it really is amazing how much better I've been able to retain information because not only am I studying almost the same way I did last year but I'm not even putting in as much time (last year it felt like I was studying almost 24/7).

Anyway, I failed a class my first sem of med school and then three classes last year, so obviously I know that there are some serious red flags with my application. As much as I know it's a long shot, I really want to match anesthesiology and don't care about prestige or location. If it is even remotely possible, what kind of board score should I aim for to match SOMEWHERE in anesthesiology? And if there are any other suggestions any of you might have I would greatly appreciate it, I know that for someone with my record I shouldn't get my heart set on something even moderately competitive, but getting into anesthesiology would be a dream come true for me.

Glad you got reinstated and are turning things around. I agree with SouthernIM's post above.

 

[deleted641888]

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[newnerd]

I'm glad that you got reinstated.

I am going to quote some excellent advice from another very similar thread:

I thought OP pretty much said why they thought they did bad (depression) and now felt like they were retaining info better and that it is actually showing because OP is doing better in classes (and may even honor one) so maybe OP doesn't need help in that area. Just a thought. Unless were giving advice on how to avoid depression

 

[Meh.meh]

I thought OP pretty much said why they thought they did bad (depression) and now felt like they were retaining info better and that it is actually showing because OP is doing better in classes (and may even honor one) so maybe OP doesn't need help in that area. Just a thought. Unless were giving advice on how to avoid depression

I might be wrong, but I think the focus of that post might be different than a strict interpretation might show....This is how I took it.

Operaman was pointing out the most important thing is to NOT FAIL again. Anything else is secondary: Step1, 2, even clinical grades (provided they aren't fails). Another failure means the problem wasn't corrected, and will wash out even a 260+ step 1.

It's not as though a 280 step would "make up" for the red flags, and it's not as though things are hopeless if OP doesn't break 240. It will depend on the overall application, and it's a sliding scale. The absolute most important thing is not to fail again, and that requires examining what made you fail over and over again.

If they have a really strong application, and these failures stay in the past, it seems likely they will match to me.
If they have a mediocre application, and the failures stay in the past, I have no idea what will happen. I doubt anyone else can pin a specific score and mark it as the most important number.

More importantly, we should all shoot for the highest score possible. It's not what any of us want to hear (we're a neurotic, data-driven group of people), but it's true.

Disclaimer: Fellow M2 here with no real idea what's going on

 

[DermViser]

I might be wrong, but I think the focus of that post might be different than a strict interpretation might show....This is how I took it.

Operaman was pointing out the most important thing is to NOT FAIL again. Anything else is secondary: Step1, 2, even clinical grades (provided they aren't fails). Another failure means the problem wasn't corrected, and will wash out even a 260+ step 1.

It's not as though a 280 step would "make up" for the red flags, and it's not as though things are hopeless if OP doesn't break 240. It will depend on the overall application, and it's a sliding scale. The absolute most important thing is not to fail again, and that requires examining what made you fail over and over again.

If they have a really strong application, and these failures stay in the past, it seems likely they will match to me.
If they have a mediocre application, and the failures stay in the past, I have no idea what will happen. I doubt anyone else can pin a specific score and mark it as the most important number.

More importantly, we should all shoot for the highest score possible. It's not what any of us want to hear (we're a neurotic, data-driven group of people), but it's true.

Disclaimer: Fellow M2 here with no real idea what's going on

I think this is a common misconception on SDN that somehow a Step 1 score wipes out other things for program directors. It's ONE metric. It's not THE metric and it definitely doesn't replace other deficiencies bc it's only meant to address one competency. There is a reason there is an MSPE.

 

[tima]

To be on the safe side make sure you apply to a backup specialty if things don't work out and get a good advisor when starting your applications.

Right now focus on the things that are in front of you. First comes Step 1 and pre-clinical grades, then you can start worrying about Step 2 and rotations. Take everything in small steps.

 

[Kahreek]

Everyone deserves a second chance, your path will be hard and though and strenuous

 

[Meh.meh]

I think this is a common misconception on SDN that somehow a Step 1 score wipes out other things for program directors. It's ONE metric. It's not THE metric and it definitely doesn't replace other deficiencies bc it's only meant to address one competency. There is a reason there is an MSPE.

All the usual disclaimers: I'm an M2, know nothing, etc.

I view it like fasting glucose (pre-clinical grades) and HbA1C (step 1).

A fasting sugar of 101 doesn't mean much to me if the HbA1C is 4.5%

But the two are related....if you have a sugar of 200 (fail a class), chances are you won't get that 4.5% hbA1C, it's more likely to be 6.x%

I think if you learn the material really well, and understand it, that's more important than your letter grade. If you get a bunch of "passes" by 1-2% instead of honors, I don't think that matters too much. If you consistently do poorly though, (barely passing classes) don't expect a miracle. I think that's reasonable.

 

[tima]

I think this is a common misconception on SDN that somehow a Step 1 score wipes out other things for program directors. It's ONE metric. It's not THE metric and it definitely doesn't replace other deficiencies bc it's only meant to address one competency. There is a reason there is an MSPE.

I agree a red flag will always be a red flag. It more about damage control at this point.

For OP's benefit. If you look at the NRMP's Program Director Survey for gas. The categories with the highest citing factor for selecting applicants to interview are Step 1 (99%), MSPE (87%) allopathic (85%) and Step 2 (82%).

 

[operaman]

I'll have to agree with the advice above. Number one priority right now is focusing on passing the classes you're taking, passing the boards, passing clinicals, etc. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that you basically need as high as score and you're capable of getting, but there's no hard and fast number anyone can give you that will be anything other than speculation. But even that is getting a little ahead of ourselves.

The time to really worry about this sort of question is Spring of MS3 when you start applying for away rotations (if you decide to do them) and then summer of M3/M4 as you're putting together your ERAS application. If you don't continue to pass, then obviously it's a moot point.

So, congratulations for turning things around this semester and doing much better. Keep it up! Start thinking about how to gently incorporate some Step 1 prep into your work next semester, but not at the expense of passing. Continue to avail yourself of every resource at your school that your tuition dollars are already paying for. Med school will continue to get harder and the stress and struggle are far from over; focus on what's immediately in front of you and work under the assumption that your absolute best is what is needed.

 

[Samir Desai]

Yes, you can match into anesthesiology. I know of other students in similar situations who've been able to turn things around, and match into the field. The advice shared by the others is sound. I would also encourage you to begin developing relationships with faculty in the anesthesiology department. When you have a red flag in your background, who you know and what they're willing to do to support you can make a big difference in the outcome. Good luck, and I hope that things go well for you.

 

[operaman]

I genuinely believe that my poor performance last year was due to depression and now that I'm better it really is amazing how much better I've been able to retain information because not only am I studying almost the same way I did last year but I'm not even putting in as much time (last year it felt like I was studying almost 24/7).

The bolded parts above are particularly worrisome. Two possibilities spring to mind:

1) This is simply exaggeration/overcompensation as a means of rationalizing past failures and placing the blame on depression, thus vindicating your past approach. Maybe it's because you got pounded pretty hard with your initial posts as many people here are skeptical of the depression card, especially since your original letter said that St. John's Wort had nearly instantly cured it. So, it makes sense if this is a way of trying to save face now that things are going better. Everyone exaggerates a little on the internet and that's ok.

and/or

2) This is absolutely true. If so, you may be setting yourself up for a big crash and burn. Don't forget that you're still covering material you've already been through once before. You should probably be honoring everything with one of the top grades in the class since you've already seen all of the exams. I would encourage you to really dial up your efforts, aiming for across the board honors and adding in a little Step 1 time as well. You will eventually come to new material and you can't afford any more failures, so beware of developing bad habits. Shelf exams are hard - some harder than Step 1 - and you'll need to have a solid knowledge base and efficient study habits to do well when you have very little time or energy to study. Remember that if all goes well, you'll be taking your first shelf in about 8 months.

You should also give some mind to how your story will be written. Failing a lot of classes, treating depression, and now merely passing isn't nearly as compelling a story as failing, treating depression/changing mindset, now honoring almost everything. Your ERAS personal statement will read much like your appeal letter as it tells of past failures, immaturity, depression followed by nearly being dismissed but finally having that epiphany moment, getting treatment, and growing up/becoming a new man after which you were a top student. It's classic Aristotelian rhetoric - anagnorisis and peripeteia - and very compelling.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Agree with the above. The material is easier because you are now seeing it for the second time (as opposed to your classmates, who are seeing it for the first time). I think doing enough studying for just passing would not be sufficient for me (if I was in your position).

The part about studying less time and less serious this year is a concern for how you will do next year (and for Step 1) when you aren't just re-learning info you already spent a year slogging through.

In regards to your original question, Pre-clinical grades are pretty far down on the list of things that are considered, after Step 1, Clinical grades, LoRs, MSPE, etc. The fact you're applying for anesthesia (which had a number of unmatched spots in last year's match, likely due to job concerns given the rise of CRNAs across the US) makes me more confident that you would match fine as long as you have NO more red flags on your application and do reasonable on your Step 1 (At least national average, IMO) and get a couple high pass/honors throughout your 3rd year.

Things will be harder for you and you will likely have to apply to low and mid-tier Anesthesia programs pretty broadly geographically, but I think if you recover, you have a chance of matching. Where you fall between 25% and 85% (the two extremes I see, barring any other failures) depends on the rest of your application.

 

[rodmichael82]

So long story short I had the worst summer of my life after finding out that I had been dismissed from my allopathic school for academic reasons. Even though everyone I talked to said that I had no chance I put my heart and soul into my appeal package and ended up getting reinstated. I am currently repeating second year and am doing average to above average in all my classes (and might potentially have honored a class but not sure yet). I genuinely believe that my poor performance last year was due to depression and now that I'm better it really is amazing how much better I've been able to retain information because not only am I studying almost the same way I did last year but I'm not even putting in as much time (last year it felt like I was studying almost 24/7).

Anyway, I failed a class my first sem of med school and then three classes last year, so obviously I know that there are some serious red flags with my application. As much as I know it's a long shot, I really want to match anesthesiology and don't care about prestige or location. If it is even remotely possible, what kind of board score should I aim for to match SOMEWHERE in anesthesiology? And if there are any other suggestions any of you might have I would greatly appreciate it, I know that for someone with my record I shouldn't get my heart set on something even moderately competitive, but getting into anesthesiology would be a dream come true for me.

Congratulations on being reinstated. I'm glad that you got your act together. I think a lot of the folks on SDN have given you some good advice.
No one can really tell you your chances but I think that if you do very well on USMLE Step 1 (> 240) and do very well during 3rd year that you definitely have a shot at Anesthesiology.
You were facing depression and had a lot going on in your life so it's understandable you weren't able to perform at your optimal level. I hope that you're seeing a therapist/psychologist and a psychiatrist to continue to help you out. At this point all you can really do is remain positive and work extremely hard.
Best of luck to you. Everyone makes mistakes, it's just all about how you handle it and if you're able to learn from it.