GPA Forgiveness

[GayWolverine]

Hey everyone.

About 2 months ago, I visited Wayne State's Medical School to discuss which route I should take in order to be a competitive applicant during the summer of 2011.

Since I am graduated with my B.S., the admissions counselor advised me to take 20 credits of post-bacc courses in biology (histology, biochemistry, genetics, cancer biology, etc.) to improve my GPA that was affected my personal circumstances. She told me in order to be competitive, I need to get a 30 (10 on each section) on my MCAT and maintain at 3.75 GPA in these post-bacc courses. If I complete that requirement, my science GPA will only be based on these post-bacc classes.

Of course, I can't just apply to Wayne State for medical school. I was wondering which other schools offer these types of GPA forgiveness.

Thanks.

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[CookDeRosa]

Hey everyone.

About 2 months ago, I visited Wayne State's Medical School to discuss which route I should take in order to be a competitive applicant during the summer of 2011.

Since I am graduated with my B.S., the admissions counselor advised me to take 20 credits of post-bacc courses in biology (histology, biochemistry, genetics, cancer biology, etc.) to improve my GPA that was affected my personal circumstances. She told me in order to be competitive, I need to get a 30 (10 on each section) on my MCAT and maintain at 3.75 GPA in these post-bacc courses. If I complete that requirement, my science GPA will only be based on these post-bacc classes.

Of course, I can't just apply to Wayne State for medical school. I was wondering which other schools offer these types of GPA forgiveness.

Thanks.

You need to look at that again, I don't think that's true. I'm 99% sure it's every class and every science class since day 1.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I was wondering which other schools offer these types of GPA forgiveness.

A few to none (this is for MD not DO), depending on who you ask. I don't think GPA "forgiveness" is the right word for what even Wright State (I'm assuming you meant Wright State?) is talking about. You didn't post actual credit hours/GPA info, but I would bet that the 20 hours of 3.75 would bring your overall BCPM GPA above their unofficial low-pass filter, and. FYI if you look at the AAMC's statistics for 2007-2009, the applicant group with a 30-32 on the MCAT have a ~20% chance of getting accepted somewhere with even a 2.40-2.59 GPA. At Wright State, the median matriculant in 2009 had a 29P on the MCAT, so obviously a 30 or above would make you competitive on that metric. But a 30 or above on the MCAT makes you competitive for many schools, since for the group with 30-32 on the MCAT, 62% got accepted somewhere across all GPA ranges.

 

[glamqueen]

A few to none (this is for MD not DO), depending on who you ask. I don't think GPA "forgiveness" is the right word for what even Wright State (I'm assuming you meant Wright State?) is talking about. You didn't post actual credit hours/GPA info, but I would bet that the 20 hours of 3.75 would bring your overall BCPM GPA above their unofficial low-pass filter, and. FYI if you look at the AAMC's statistics for 2007-2009, the applicant group with a 30-32 on the MCAT have a ~20% chance of getting accepted somewhere with even a 2.40-2.59 GPA. At Wright State, the median matriculant in 2009 had a 29P on the MCAT, so obviously a 30 or above would make you competitive on that metric. But a 30 or above on the MCAT makes you competitive for many schools, since for the group with 30-32 on the MCAT, 62% got accepted somewhere across all GPA ranges.

Unfortunately, I agree with the other posters. Every class will count. Maybe Wayne State meant they would consider the most recently earned grades more, but they will still see and look at all your grades from every class, as AMCAS requires that they be listed and formulated into your cum science GPA and all the other GPAs they calculate on their application.

And to the above poster - why would he not mean Wayne State? Does Wright have a special program for this? I wasn't aware Wayne had one either, but I guess you really never know. Sounds like this poster might be local to Detroit, and if so - it is not unusual to go to one's local medical school to inquire about chances.

OP - finals words for you - I would simply do your best to make straight A's in what you have left to take. That is the end all really anyway. Don't count on special forgiveness or help from anyone and apply broadly based on your stats and the stats for the schools you put on your list. Best of luck.

 

[DrMidlife]

Miami has a similar policy, instate only.

Buyer beware: when a school promises to look "only" at postbac grades, that simply works to get you past an autoscreen, such as a 3.0 GPA cutoff. Then you land in the pool with maybe 5000 other candidates, most of whom don't have any damage.

So I agree with the other posters - your initial competitiveness is based on your cumulative undergrad GPA and MCAT. Your subsequent competitiveness doesn't matter if you're not initially competitive.

My advice for a sub-3.0 GPA comeback (if that's the situation):
1. Get the cumulative undergrad GPA over 3.0 (may not be possible, in which case get a 3.7+ for 2 years of hard science).
2. Get above average (32+) on the MCAT
3. Spend your 1st app year in a good SMP

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm 99% sure it's every class and every science class since day 1.

True for AMCAS GPA calcs.

But med schools can do anything they want.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

And to the above poster - why would he not mean Wayne State?

I overlooked Wayne State flipping through the MSAR trying to figure out where he was talking about and if they listed anything regarding "forgiveness." He did mean Wayne State, my mistake.

 

[GayWolverine]

Alright, thanks for the responses everyone. However, I was looking for a particular answer as to which schools offer these types of things.

A little more information. I met with the counselor at Wayne State. She read my credentials and in turn told me that my grades weren't up to par.

As a result, she provided me with paperwork detailing what I needed to do.

It says that I will need: "At least 20 credit hours of post bac or graduate science courses reported on the AMCAS application at a level not less than 3.75."

She told me that with this "accomplishment" that my application will be viewed favorabally. That's all.

 

[GayWolverine]

Also, I was told by the advisor that the AMCAS will report everything, but the last 20 credits of a new program will be considered and used as the science GPA at Wayne State when they review my application. It's kind of funny that some people are putting their 2 cents in and haven't even heard of Wayne State before.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Also, I was told by the advisor that the AMCAS will report everything, but the last 20 credits of a new program will be considered and used as the science GPA at Wayne State when they review my application. It's kind of funny that some people are putting their 2 cents in and haven't even heard of Wayne State before.

I was trying to help you out man. My mistake. Not sure what kind of experts you're trying to find posting this question in the pre-allo area of SDN, but by all means ignore all I said and carry on.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Also, I was told by the advisor that the AMCAS will report everything, but the last 20 credits of a new program will be considered and used as the science GPA at Wayne State when they review my application. It's kind of funny that some people are putting their 2 cents in and haven't even heard of Wayne State before.

Besides, what was wrong with this advice when you got it a few months ago? Don't see what's changed in what could go into your application?

You're in a redeemable position. You haven't even begun to demonstrate that you can get straight As in the sciences and I think that's one thing you need to do. You have a lot of GPA redemption to accomplish if you want to succeed. It will take dedication, time, and money to fix the situation, but if you are resolved, then it can be done.

Here are some possible pathways to your goal; the first is most likely to be successful:

1) Plan to apply to DO med schools. Repeat the classes where you did the worst and use AACOMAS policy that includes only the most recent retake when calculating the application GPA. If you have a bunch of Ds and Fs, this is the fastest way to fix your low GPA if you can get As the second time (note: the repeated class must have the same number or greater in credit hours). Get straight As in the rest of your prerequisites due to your new work ethic. Get a good MCAT score to prove you understood the material. Shadow a DO and get a letter of recommendation. Be aware that there are a few DO schools that consider applicants with a GPA of 2.75 or lower, BTW, if the MCAT score is really strong and there is a recent steep upward grade trend. Educate yourself on this option in SDN's PreMed Osteopathic Forum.

2) Get your GPA to 3.0. With a 3.0, you exceed the cut offs for most DO schools. You would also qualify for a lot of SMPs (Special Masters Program). This is a 1-2 year paid audition, a very expensive redemption option which can overrride a low uGPA. You'd need an MCAT 28-30+ depending on the program requirements. If you perform well in the SMP, where you compete with first year med students at their linked med school and get a high GPA, typically 3.5 or better, you have a chance of an acceptance at an MD med school. This outcome is not guaranteed, though, and many of these people end up in DO schools, anyway. Read more on this option in the Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum of SDN.

3) Take two more years of full-time coursework, getting straight As. This would raise your GPA to 3.28. With an MCAT score of 34-35, you might get into an allopathic med school due to the steep upward trend and excellent MCAT.

All these options assume optimal ECs and strong LORs, good PS and excellent interview skills.

 

[vc7777]

Alright, thanks for the responses everyone. However, I was looking for a particular answer as to which schools offer these types of things.

A little more information. I met with the counselor at Wayne State. She read my credentials and in turn told me that my grades weren't up to par.

As a result, she provided me with paperwork detailing what I needed to do.

It says that I will need: "At least 20 credit hours of post bac or graduate science courses reported on the AMCAS application at a level not less than 3.75."

She told me that with this "accomplishment" that my application will be viewed favorabally. That's all.

GW -

I think I saw one of your original posts in the Pre-allo forum several months ago? That didn't turn out well, did it? Good to see you hanging in there.

IIRC WSU told me a similar story early on...then I crushed the MCAT and completed 18 credits, and they summarily rejected me (a fellow Wolverine) pre-secondary, even after appeal. Supposedly because I didn't have 20 credits. Their loss, I suppose.

If you do well in 20 credits of post-bacc, get a good MCAT score, have a clear upward trend then lots of options will open up - if you apply broadly and be flexible - but I wouldn't necessarily call this phenomena "forgiveness". I'd call it "proving yourself".

Also, of course, look into MSU (esp. their DO program for the actual grade forgiveness) and Oakland. Don't forget my med school Case (3 hrs from Ann Arbor & Detroit). [Shameless plug] We have a vibrant LGBT community here. [/Shameless plug]

-Good Luck
vc

 

[Lacheln]

Alright, thanks for the responses everyone. However, I was looking for a particular answer as to which schools offer these types of things.

A little more information. I met with the counselor at Wayne State. She read my credentials and in turn told me that my grades weren't up to par.

As a result, she provided me with paperwork detailing what I needed to do.

It says that I will need: "At least 20 credit hours of post bac or graduate science courses reported on the AMCAS application at a level not less than 3.75."

She told me that with this "accomplishment" that my application will be viewed favorabally. That's all.

Also, I was told by the advisor that the AMCAS will report everything, but the last 20 credits of a new program will be considered and used as the science GPA at Wayne State when they review my application. It's kind of funny that some people are putting their 2 cents in and haven't even heard of Wayne State before.

I understand why you would hear what this advisor says and feel like "thank goodness, it might not be as bad of a slog as I thought"...but her telling you that this accomplishment will be viewed favorably should not be taken as "you will be on even footing with someone who has done well all along."

I know of other schools that also say they weight upward trends heavily (UW springs to mind, I know BUSM does as well), but that doesn't mean your chances are even, it just means that you won't be dismissed out of hand. Which I think was at least part of what others were saying in terms of cutoffs. Any app has to be considered in its entirety - but if you have an sGPA or cGPA < 3.0 I'd think long and hard before flushing time/$$ down the toilet. They can say anything they want in a consultation, you have to interpret what they say in the context of their numbers (by this I mean look at their published avgs - if you are well below, take that encouragement with a large grain of salt.)

 

[Dr. Saturn]

She told me in order to be competitive, I need to get a 30 (10 on each section) on my MCAT and maintain at 3.75 GPA in these post-bacc courses. If I complete that requirement, my science GPA will only be based on these post-bacc classes.

Of course, I can't just apply to Wayne State for medical school. I was wondering which other schools offer these types of GPA forgiveness.

Thanks.

I have a 3.72 from my post-bac and along comes a 23 year old high school calculus class for which I dual enrolled at a local university: 4 hours of B, and a 22 year old college honors Astronomy class: 4 more hours of B. Suddenly I have a 3.65 science gpa. I have a 3.84 overall, and the 3.65 is still above the average for the school I am applying to, but, yup, they count them all.

What is more frustrating is that the 4 hours of B for calc didn't count at my college, which took instead 5 hours of "pass" for the AP calc test at the end of that same class. So now I have 9 hours of calculus for one high school class.

AMCAS does break these out into high school sci gpa, undergrad., and post-bac. Then they give a cumulative. Perhaps my school will realize how old these are and pay more attention to the post-bac one?

 

[Dr. Saturn]

Oh, I almost forgot:

GO BLUE!!!


I did my Master's there.

Good luck Gay Wolverine.