GPA once you are in

[Golden10]

Just a quick question, I heard that once you are in vet school your GPA does not matter. But all my friends who are in vet school say that there classmates really take GPA seriously and will fight the teachers over ever last point.

So my question is what is a good GPA in vet school? Does anyone know the average at least? I heard that even a 2.5 is considered awesome and if you are applying to programs which ask for your GPA that this is a really good GPA to have.

But by the way that my friends have been talking they make it seem like you should strive to get all As if you want to get a good amount of job offers in your 4th year.

So what is the truth about your GPA once you are in vet school?

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[PetPony]

I thought good grades only mattered if you wanted continuing education after vet school (internships, residencies). That your GPA won't be on your diploma, so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to get a job right away. Isn't that why people say C=DVM?

 

[Lissarae06]

GPAs matter for some things. They matter for internships/residencies (some more than others) and for scholarships. I honestly take pride in my grades. They aren't the best (I have a 3.4) but decent enough. My main goal through school is no Cs. I have gotten close but I have worked hard to stay in the A/B range. I think it has just been engrained in me from birth. First year, we had some super competitive people that fought tooth and nail for every point. Things have mellowed out a lot this year.

 

[SocialStigma]

A lot of people (myself included) still aim for high grades because of internships/residencies. A good GPA is probably ~3.5 (according to upper years). More and more vets are specializing these days. And honestly many vet students are just so used to aiming high (from undergrad, because we needed good grades to get into vet school in the first place) that it's a habit now. It's very hard to suddenly convince yourself to be ok with Cs when you're used to achieving As/Bs throughout high school and undergrad.

Otherwise passing grades are perfectly acceptable if you just want to get your DVM.

 

[New Foundland]

I've heard people say that private practices won't ever bother looking at your marks.


But yeah, SS has it right: Pre-vet often turns people into grade-hungry monsters and you cannot unmake a monster merely by reducing the incentive.

 

[nyanko]

class rank matters more than actual GPA because of differences between schools.

it's bull anyhow. they spend all of our orientation being all COLLABORATION NOW YOU ARE ALL HERE NOTHING TO COMPETE AGAINST and then every quarter they tell us our class rank. yeah guys, way to foster that collaborative atmosphere. 👎

I have never in my life cared about grades. They are absolutely no predictor of a person's knowledge of pretty much any topic. Don't see why to start now.

edit: and most professors think that the grading is a joke anyway considering that like a 3.7 is barely in the middle of the class. 🙄

 

[skittles12]

I've made As/Bs so far, but I don't spend a lot of time worrying about my grades. If I make a C, it's not the end of the world to me. I made a couple of C's in undergrad, and I made it into vet school. There are a few people in my class who used to fight over every single point, but I think they have relaxed about that a little this year. Our class rank isn't given to us, but you can ask for it if you want to know.

 

[sumstorm]

Fighting over points isn't always about carrying about the line between an A or a B or a C....sometimes it's about knowing there are two exams in the semester and a single question that you genuinly interpreted the question differently, or pulled info from another class, etc can be the diffrence between a letter grade and/or make the next exam incredibly stressful. I have C's. Our class rank is available but you have to actively go look for it. I have no idea what is necessary for internships and residencies, but some are more competitive than others, and some schools have an overall GPA that you have to stay above to remain off academic probation (along with passing every class +/- restrictions in D's and C's...ie here you can't have a C- average.) There area few folks who really really care about grades, but the best 'students' (the ones that really seem to do well in class and out) are those that are active outside of class, manage to seperate the important stuff from the trivial (which doesn't always reflect good grades with detail oriented professors) and spend time doing clinical stuff (wetlabs, shifts, etc.)

 

[PocoCalypsoQH]

Grades do matter if you want internships/residencies after school or if you would like to get any scholarships. Also, at my school you get kicked out if your cumulative gpa drops below 2.4 or something...so C doesn't quite =DVM for us. I'm not sure how big of a deal they are for getting jobs, but I think it is more important to a potential employer that you are able to demonstrate that you know what you are doing rather than being able to get an A on a test.

 

[nyanko]

Grades do matter if you want internships/residencies after school or if you would like to get any scholarships. Also, at my school you get kicked out if your cumulative gpa drops below 2.4 or something...so C doesn't quite =DVM for us. I'm not sure how big of a deal they are for getting jobs, but I think it is more important to a potential employer that you are able to demonstrate that you know what you are doing rather than being able to get an A on a test.

I got a scholarship last year that's renewable contingent upon my maintaining a 3.0 I believe it is. I think that I can do that without really caring about grades and just learning the material as I see it to be relevant, and that has appeared to be true thus far.

So for me, it's not really even "just knowing enough to pass," it's "knowing enough to feel comfortable thinking through a problem in the material" which as sumstorm said, is often quite different from "knowing enough to get an A on a nitpicky multiple choice exam."

 

[sumstorm]

"knowing enough to get an A on a nitpicky multiple choice exam."

Those and the true-false questions that ask off the wall miniscule details that aren't even touched on in class drive me insane.

 

[DickVetMan]

I get marks on my exams over in Edinburgh and the grade scheme they have here is a pass 50-59 = C, Credit 60-69 = B and Distinction 70 or higher = A. The marking system is different in the UK than in the states. The Royal Dick really does not care about ranking and GPA, they seem to care about balancing everything out. I think they are aware about how I suppose GPA maybe important for residency and internships, but I think vet school is giving the information required to come out and practice like a general veterinarian the day you graduate.

 

[david594]

Just remember you cant really compare GPA from one school to another. If your going to worry about anything, I think it would be class rank.

 

[hopefulinva]

it's bull anyhow. they spend all of our orientation being all COLLABORATION NOW YOU ARE ALL HERE NOTHING TO COMPETE AGAINST and then every quarter they tell us our class rank. yeah guys, way to foster that collaborative atmosphere. 👎

Aw man.

So I'm getting a BS in Biology and a BS in Business Management, and I have to admit the two academic cultures are COMPLETELY different. In Bio no one will say a friggen word to anyone, because god forbid someone do better than you do and get a seat in vet school that you don't get. Management is the exact opposite; almost a full half of my required classes have invovled very well-organized group projects that makes group collaboration a requirement.

I was really hoping vet school would be a happy medium of the two. I don't like being compared to my fellow students for any reason, not the least of which is because we truly should be working together.

 

[Trematode]

I heard through the grapevine that a certain class at AVC is so competitive that students will go to the library and take out books that they don't need, just so the other students do not have access to it. . I take it some classes can get pretty cutthroat.

 

[Armymutt25A]

Those and the true-false questions that ask off the wall miniscule details that aren't even touched on in class drive me insane.

Between you and the 2nd years, I'm going to have more grey hair by the time I graduate.

To me, grades only mattered because I am trying to get a scholarship. My current philosophy is that every point over 73% is padding. I don't know that my class has anyone who is focused on their grades, other than those just trying to stay afloat. There are some who approach things with more intensity, but I think that's just their nature. I try to learn as much as I can, not because I'm worried about some test in school, but rather some test when it really matters.

 

[NittanyKitty]

I'll echo what everyone else has said - it really depends on what you want to do after getting your DVM when determining how much grades matter. If you are interested in GP, then for most places I don't think they'll even ask what your grades were and C=DVM is just about right. Internship/residency? The higher the better with 3.5 being the number that a few clinicians have mentioned. But even for this path remember that grades still aren't everything - your leadership, involvement in clubs/research/related employment, and the recommendation of the clinicans could be even more critical depending on the program you're considering.

Also, the perceived importance of grades is going to vary a lot depending on the kind of class you're in. My class is fairly low-key as a rule. Yes, everyone does some degree of sressing about exams, loses sleep to learn material, and wants to do the best they can. But we also have very few gunners, no one actively compares their grades with each other, and competition is really low between classmates. Everyone is fiercely competitive with themselves but not with others. It really does make a difference in how much grades will matter to you in school

 

[sumstorm]

Just wanted to add that a lot of clinicians have said a decent GPA + a lot of field experience and extra effort in the area you want to do residency in can work. It's easier to feel that the student with a 3.3 and tons of time in the oncoloy dept is a better candidate for the oncology residency than the 3.9 student that only 'discovered' their passion during a 2 week rotation. Networking with folks where one wants to do an internship and residency can help immensely and we are encouraged to consider that in setting up externships. Also, not all residencies require a formal program. Some of the exotics and behavior residencies currently have alternative options.

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

The veterinary school culture of hypercompetition just gets worse in the world of practice. One of the biggest challenges is trying to get more than 2 DVMs (the average number per practice) to be able to work together in one practice (if they are not specialists). No wonder we cannot have efficient and profitable practices so that almost everyone has to have their own practice. In my first job, many of the DVMs had at one time worked with or for everyone else in the county but ended up in separate practices when they could not get along.

 

[hopefulinva]

The veterinary school culture of hypercompetition just gets worse in the world of practice. One of the biggest challenges is trying to get more than 2 DVMs (the average number per practice) to be able to work together in one practice (if they are not specialists). No wonder we cannot have efficient and profitable practices so that almost everyone has to have their own practice. In my first job, many of the DVMs had at one time worked with or for everyone else in the county but ended up in separate practices when they could not get along.

=( This is depressing.

There are good clinics out there with fantastic DVMs who share everything; I've been blessed to have worked as an assistant at one of them. It's not uncommon for one of the DVMs to have another take a look at their patient/radiographs/lab results for a second opinion. Then at the end of the night, they'll go out and get drinks together. This is the only clinic I've ever worked at, so I assumed this was the norm; I'm upset to learn it's not.

 

[Trematode]

Well, I have worked at 3 excellent clinics too.
But if you go to the rant-here thread and look at Dyachei's (I do believe) posts on being a new grad in a clinic with a vet of 13 years who is controlling and irresponsible, you realize that it does exist.

 

[dyachei]

Well, I have worked at 3 excellent clinics too.
But if you go to the rant-here thread and look at Dyachei's (I do believe) posts on being a new grad in a clinic with a vet of 13 years who is controlling and irresponsible, you realize that it does exist.

very true (and it is my post).

The worst part is that I worked well with class mates in clinics (I mean, there are always a few that aren't easy to work with). I do my part and try to be a team player. In private practice, I have had issues with both of the doctors I work with, but many more with the doctor that has been out 13 years. Part of what I'm realizing is that there is less watching out for each other and more being in it for themselves

 

[JosephKnechtDVM]

There are group practices that work and I have worked at one, but the culture of veterinary medicine needs to change to make veterinarians working in groups more the normal and so that staff(DVM and non DVM) really want to stay together and work together for the long term. Clients love it and DVM quality of life would improve dramatically along with the practice being more economically efficient. I think it would best be done locally so the practice would be more attuned to the needs of its customer base. Corporate control from far away is not likely to be as attuned.

 

[Firenze]

How about the different expectations for overseas schools versus US schools? When I went to the Edinburgh reception they seemed to indicate that C is definitely average, and a B is extraordinary. The presenter said "If you get a B, the professor will congratulate you, and if you get an A...we'll probably be offering you a job."

Was he just saying that to prepare us for the severe lack of grade inflation? 😀 Or is it really that different in the UK?

 

[Packen]

How about the different expectations for overseas schools versus US schools? When I went to the Edinburgh reception they seemed to indicate that C is definitely average, and a B is extraordinary. The presenter said "If you get a B, the professor will congratulate you, and if you get an A...we'll probably be offering you a job."

Was he just saying that to prepare us for the severe lack of grade inflation? 😀 Or is it really that different in the UK?

The grading scheme here definitely takes some getting used to, I am still adjusting. My biggest issue is that during my Masters and when I had to retake a bunch of prereqs (expired) I was all about perfection. In my mind, that is what the adcoms of vet schools wanted, that is what I had to deliver. A's or else.

Now I am in a system where a grade in the 60s is actually good. 70s great. 80s amazing. I think it is just the grading culture here though (UK).

 

[LetItSnow]

So my question is what is a good GPA in vet school? Does anyone know the average at least? I heard that even a 2.5 is considered awesome and if you are applying to programs which ask for your GPA that this is a really good GPA to have.

So what is the truth about your GPA once you are in vet school?

The truth is that if you intend to go into practice after school (i.e. non-internship, non-residency route), your GPA is a meaningless number.

I had dinner last night with a veterinarian who, along with her partner, graduated first and fourth in their class: she noted that nobody has ever asked them what their GPA was or what their class rank was. Also at the dinner were two people involved in career development in the industry: same opinion. They had never heard of a hiring practice asking for that information.

So (to my way of thinking) a much better way to think about your GPA is this: What will it cost me to get a higher GPA in terms of things I could otherwise do to make me a more attractive candidate.

Put differently: If you're foregoing additional clinical experience, skip out on those occasional 'how to communicate' seminars, and spend all your time studying to move yourself from a 3.0 to a 3.4, then you're wasting your time.

On the other hand, if your academic end game is "I want a surgical residency" then you may want to make sure you maintain a moderately higher GPA.

And on the third hand, if you're sitting at a 2.0 - then yes, you'd better focus on your academics. You won't be a good doctor if you don't graduate.

The only other reason (I can think of) that it might matter is for scholarship applications. Many of them ask for your class rank.

I've come to the conclusion that if you want to go straight into practice it is far, far more advantageous to spend your time focusing on the academic material you NEED to know, building clinical skill, and networking like crazy.

 

[dyachei]

The truth is that if you intend to go into practice after school (i.e. non-internship, non-residency route), your GPA is a meaningless number.

I had dinner last night with a veterinarian who, along with her partner, graduated first and fourth in their class: she noted that nobody has ever asked them what their GPA was or what their class rank was. Also at the dinner were two people involved in career development in the industry: same opinion. They had never heard of a hiring practice asking for that information.

So (to my way of thinking) a much better way to think about your GPA is this: What will it cost me to get a higher GPA in terms of things I could otherwise do to make me a more attractive candidate.

Put differently: If you're foregoing additional clinical experience, skipping out on those occasional 'how to communicate' seminars, and spending all your time studying to move yourself from a 3.0 to a 3.4, then you're wasting your time.

On the other hand, if your academic end game is "I want a surgical residency" then you may want to make sure you maintain a moderately higher GPA.

And on the third hand, if you're sitting at a 2.0 - then yes, you'd better focus on your academics. You won't be a good doctor if you don't graduate.

The only other reason (I can think of) that it might matter is for scholarship applications. Many of them ask for your class rank.

I've come to the conclusion that if you want to go straight into practice it is far, far more advantageous to spend your time focusing on the academic material you NEED to know, building clinical skill, and networking like crazy.

interesting fact: in our business class, we were told not to put our GPA on our resumes. If it's good enough to put it on the resume, it apparently sends a message to employers about the type of person you are.

 

[Emiloo4]

I remember thinking in high school "Once I get into college, all I need is Cs to graduate with my degree" 😆 And then I decided to pursue vet med 😱.
I have been told by a few people that it is what you make of it. If you want to spend all of your time studying for As and Bs and have no life, than you can do that. I met others who could get As and Bs if they wanted but they wanted more of a balanced life and were fine with Cs because they just wanted a job at a practice when they graduated. It all depends on what you want. You get what you put into it as far as I'm concerned. I am one of those people who freaks out at a 98 because I just don't know what ONE question I got wrong, and it bothers the crap out of me, but I am learning to be less of a control freak and try to enjoy life more. I hope to be somewhere in the middle 😀.

 

[breenie]

You don't exactly get to DECIDE the grades you get...

For instance, I would have preferred NOT to have gotten C's on all of my anatomy practicals that I studied really hard for last semester. In this block that just ended, I tried to get a B in a class that we'd had last semester and I'd busted my butt off for an A in. Still got an A, despite 50000% decrease in effort.

Some of this crap is out of your hands. I wish I could turn a switch on that said, "I am going to lead a balanced life and get C's and be happy with that" but that is not the reality I've encountered. I don't know how to study for C's. I have yet to find a magical study timer that dings and says, "Good job Breenie, you have sufficient mastery of this material to get a passing grade!" As a result, I am kind of stabbing blindly in the dark.

I end up just trying my best. Haven't failed out yet. Don't ask my classmates though, I skipped school last Friday and a few people thought I had failed out. Suuucckaaas.

But for original question... no. It doesn't really matter. Nor does it seem entirely relevant (see rant above).

 

[OH Bunny Girl]

networking like crazy.

I have learned that this is KEY! Whether it's a reference for a job, or apartment hunting, it's totally who you know. The vets that I work for met as classmates in vet school, were friends, but went on to separate practices after graduation. Then maybe 10 or so years later, one vet bought a practice and called up the other and said "Hey, come work with/for me!" And they lived happily ever after.

 

[bunnity]

Some of this crap is out of your hands. I wish I could turn a switch on that said, "I am going to lead a balanced life and get C's and be happy with that" but that is not the reality I've encountered. I don't know how to study for C's. I have yet to find a magical study timer that dings and says, "Good job Breenie, you have sufficient mastery of this material to get a passing grade!" As a result, I am kind of stabbing blindly in the dark.

So true. If you find this timer, let me know!

The other thing is, it's not really about the grades, it's about the fact that you will be responsible for lives in the very near future. I'm not trying to say that grades necessarily match up with how much you learn, because grades depend so much on how well you test and the little details we are often tested on aren't relevant to practice. But it does annoy me when people choose to learn as little as possible to pass, when they could easily be learning more, because that is going to affect animals down the road.

 

[Minnerbelle]

But it does annoy me when people choose to learn as little as possible to pass, when they could easily be learning more, because that is going to affect animals down the road.

True that.

And I agree with others that grades and learning a pretty different things in vet school. While you definitely do need to learn to get "good" grades, it really seems like getting "excellent" grades is a matter of just playing the game sometimes. There are really great teachers who make exams such that having a good grasp of the concepts plus memorizing important clinically relevant facts, names, and numbers will yield you an A. But at least in my experience, that's been a minority of professors. There are so many times where random factoids that NOOOOO clinician out in the real world would know/care about make up a good chunk of the test. A lot of times, it's a matter of figuring out what answers certain clinicans like, regardless of whether you even understand what they're talking about. ESP when the answer changes depending on which clinician taught the material. I've definitely sat through tests thinking, "I think this is definitely the more correct answer (because of some very practical reason), BUT that was taught in a different class, so for this class, I should answer this." It's a little frustrating when there are "theoretically correct" answers and "practically/clinically correct" answers, and it's not very clear on the test which answer they'd like. You understand both, and give yourself a pat in the back... but you get points taken off regardless.