grad school gpa?

[MiesVanDerMom]

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I have a high undergrad GPA and low grad school GPA. grad school was History and I left before finishing the degree. I need some info on how important the grad GPA is versus undergrad. OH, and I've taken pre-req sciencecourses since leaving grad school and am 4.0 in those. Will med schools get my 2 GPAs seperately as well as an overall? where will the post-bacc classes go? anyone know?

 

[blee]

On AMCAS, your post-bacc classes will most likely end up in the "undergraduate" category. There is a separate section for graduate school grades.

Your undergrad and grad GPAs are calculated separately. AMCAS will display not only your total BCPM and AO (all other) GPA, but BCPM and AO GPAs for each year of college and any post-bacc work.

 

[Sundarban1]

All grades will be listed by year and type (UG, PB, GR). As the above poster mentioned for allopathic schools only undergraduate and post bacc grades will be factored together to calculate various GPA's.

Osteopathic schools factor all 3 types into your GPAs.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I have a high undergrad GPA and low grad school GPA. grad school was History and I left before finishing the degree. I need some info on how important the grad GPA is versus undergrad. OH, and I've taken pre-req sciencecourses since leaving grad school and am 4.0 in those. Will med schools get my 2 GPAs seperately as well as an overall? where will the post-bacc classes go? anyone know?

Most schools treat UG grades more seriously. That said, a stronge performance in all academic endeavors is pretty much expected.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Thanks everyone. My grad school grades are my only weak point really and as June draws near I grow more and more nervous. Thanks a lot for helping me out. I like our low troll rate over here on the non-trad board 🙂

 

[QofQuimica]

I have a high undergrad GPA and low grad school GPA. grad school was History and I left before finishing the degree. I need some info on how important the grad GPA is versus undergrad. OH, and I've taken pre-req sciencecourses since leaving grad school and am 4.0 in those. Will med schools get my 2 GPAs seperately as well as an overall? where will the post-bacc classes go? anyone know?

I didn't have an undergrad GPA at my major institution, so in my case my graduate grades were more important than they probably were for many other people. If you're worried, why not call a few schools that you want to apply to this summer and explain your situation? I actually called EVERY school I wanted to apply to before I applied, but even if you only call a few, it should give you some insight about how the schools will feel about your graduate history grades. to you with your apps.

 

[relentless11]

Wow this is backwards from my situation. Definately call the schools. I'm not too sure how this can go. Since your grad grades are in history, relatively unrelated to medicine, they might weight your undergrad more. Again call and ask.

Additionally, did can you clarify why you left your grad program? (MA? PhD?) Some people do have good reasons to do this, but for the most part, our advisors, and admissions people here have always advised us to FINISH our degree. It is "generally frowned upon" to get out of a grad program. You will have to address that too.

For the most part, adcoms want to see committment. I'm not saying this may be your case, but just FYI.... if a person was unsure or unready for a grad program, what reasons (and some people do have good reasons) could justify them being able to committ themselves to med school. Just something to think about.

 

[JD/MD]

I'm about to start my post-bacc pre-med classes. My undergrad GPA was OK but not great--3.44 in economics. In law school, my GPA was really lackluster--3.04. Assuming I do very well in my post-bacc courses (assume around a 4.0), how much will med schools weigh my law school record? I saw one poster (the previous one I believe) suggests calling med school admissions offices for their input. Before I do, I was wondering whether anyone here has any insight. Thank you.

 

[JD/MD]

I'm about to start my post-bacc pre-med classes. My undergrad GPA was OK but not great--3.44 in economics. In law school, my GPA was really lackluster--3.04. Assuming I do very well in my post-bacc courses (assume around a 4.0), how much will med schools weigh my law school record? I saw one poster (the previous one I believe) suggests calling med school admissions offices for their input. Before I do, I was wondering whether anyone here has any insight. Thank you.

 

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

I'm about to start my post-bacc pre-med classes. My undergrad GPA was OK but not great--3.44 in economics. In law school, my GPA was really lackluster--3.04. Assuming I do very well in my post-bacc courses (assume around a 4.0), how much will med schools weigh my law school record? I saw one poster (the previous one I believe) suggests calling med school admissions offices for their input. Before I do, I was wondering whether anyone here has any insight. Thank you.

I went through this with AMCAS last summer (I'm starting med school in 8/06.) My law school graded on a curve: 0-100, not ABCDF. When I got my first AMCAS printout showing all the classes and grades from my transcripts, they had not calculated my law school GPA but simply reported the numberical grades received. Like an idiot, I called AMCAS and asked them to convert it to grades so I'd have a graduate GPA. Well, I got one and it was NOT stellar. Frankly, it stank on ice.

Ultimately, I got accepted, but if I had one thing to do over again that would be it: leave sleeping dogs alone. For now I'd wait and see how AMCAS treats you when all is said and done; there's nothing you can do about it anyway, right? Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.

 

[drpatelplasticsurgery]

i'll tell you about my experience.

i applied for Fall 2005 admission. i had a 2.89 GPA from Princeton (Economics) and a 2.31 GPA from Brooklyn Law School. believe me, your situation is not as bad as you think.

i went ahead after law school and earned an M.S. in Biology from NYU - had a 3.78 GPA.

as far as my application cycle: out of 20 schools, i had interviews at Vanderbilt and at SUNY Upstate (Syracuse). i am a New York State resident.

after my August 2004 interview with Vandy, i got waitlisted around October of that year. following my March 2005 interview with Upstate, i was summarily rejected. they asked about my academic performance - my Vandy interviewer was the Dean of Admissions, who had a corporate attorney and Vandy Law graduate for a son. we debated over law school grading subjectivity, and he dropped the subject. with your law school GPA, i don't think there will be any questions. they know they're comparing apples with oranges here. Con Law doesn't compare with Organic Chemistry - both are difficult, but for wildly disparate reasons.

if you apply, even to some top schools, you will get some interviews. oh yeah, my April 2004 MCAT was 30S (11 bio, 11 physics, 08 verbal). you can see i had a lot of strikes against me numerically (plus i'm an attorney), but i still got 2 interviews. this time around, i'm devoting two years of my life to biomedical research while preparing for the April 2006 MCAT. i've done plenty of health-related volunteering/activities (i'm EMT-certified), but i also intend to shadow an ER attending who works in our lab after the MCAT and until i start school in Fall 2007.

play your cards right, apply to enough schools (with a broad range), and do reasonably well on the MCAT, and you'll get into a good school. [i write this assuming you're already doing medically relevant extracurriculars.]

if you want to become a physician, then you must realize that your law school grades are a sunk cost. focus on what you can control = post-bacc + MCAT + application strategy + thorough interview preparation.

I'm about to start my post-bacc pre-med classes. My undergrad GPA was OK but not great--3.44 in economics. In law school, my GPA was really lackluster--3.04. Assuming I do very well in my post-bacc courses (assume around a 4.0), how much will med schools weigh my law school record? I saw one poster (the previous one I believe) suggests calling med school admissions offices for their input. Before I do, I was wondering whether anyone here has any insight. Thank you.

 

[Beau Geste]

I'm confused. I thought UG GPA included anything NOT in a graduate program??? What if you take "post-bacc" undergrad courses as a 2nd-degree-seeking student for 2nd B.S.?

How is GPA EXACTLY reported to med schools? I can see Grad vs. UG vs. BCMP, but post-bacc?

 

[relentless11]

I'm confused. I thought UG GPA included anything NOT in a graduate program??? What if you take "post-bacc" undergrad courses as a 2nd-degree-seeking student for 2nd B.S.?

How is GPA EXACTLY reported to med schools? I can see Grad vs. UG vs. BCMP, but post-bacc?

Undergrad GPA = All undergrad level (lower + upper division) courses taken the first time you went to college for a bachelor's degree

Post-Bacc GPA = All undergrad (lower + upper division) courses taken after receiving a bachelor's degree. Since these are undergrad courses, they show your performance in undergraduate level courswork which is why it serves as good "damage control" for people with low UG GPA.

Post-bacc GPA includes courses taken during a 2nd (or 3rd, 4th....nth) bachelor's program, and undergrad courses taken as a graduate student. (some programs allow you to do this as electives) This is why special masters programs work too.

Graduate GPA = ALL graduate level courses taken as a grad student OR even as an undergrad. Some undergrads take a grad level course, and that also counts into your grad GPA. This is why advisors tell you to take more upper division undergrad courses if you want to boost your GPA. NOT grad courses.

 

[Beau Geste]

Undergrad GPA = All undergrad level (lower + upper division) courses taken the first time you went to college for a bachelor's degree

Post-Bacc GPA = All undergrad (lower + upper division) courses taken after receiving a bachelor's degree. Since these are undergrad courses, they show your performance in undergraduate level courswork which is why it serves as good "damage control" for people with low UG GPA.

Post-bacc GPA includes courses taken during a 2nd (or 3rd, 4th....nth) bachelor's program, and undergrad courses taken as a graduate student. (some programs allow you to do this as electives) This is why special masters programs work too.

Graduate GPA = ALL graduate level courses taken as a grad student OR even as an undergrad. Some undergrads take a grad level course, and that also counts into your grad GPA. This is why advisors tell you to take more upper division undergrad courses if you want to boost your GPA. NOT grad courses.

Aha! Straight from AMCAS instruction booklet:

"Postbaccalaureate coursework is included in the Undergraduate Total GPA as well as separate Post-Baccalaureate GPA"

Whew! I thought that was the case 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

Aha! Straight from AMCAS instruction booklet:

"Postbaccalaureate coursework is included in the Undergraduate Total GPA as well as separate Post-Baccalaureate GPA"

Whew! I thought that was the case 🙂

yep you are right. It will be included in your total GPA and also in a separate section when they calculate. 👍

 

[JD/MD]

Thanks to 2Sexy and Nirav for sharing their experiences. I think I got my question answered--you guys think my law-school GPA won't by itself torpedo my chances. I didn't want to dive into post-bacc classes if my law school performance was going to make med school admission impossible or very difficult. Thanks.

 

[relentless11]

Thanks to 2Sexy and Nirav for sharing their experiences. I think I got my question answered--you guys think my law-school GPA won't by itself torpedo my chances. I didn't want to dive into post-bacc classes if my law school performance was going to make med school admission impossible or very difficult. Thanks.

Just curious, what brought you towards the MD world? I had a friend who had JD, and applied for a job at a biomedical lawfirm. They wouldn't accept her because she didn't have a PhD or MD..haha. I thought that was kinda funny. Never thought there would be a job that would have a firm requirement for dual doctorates..hehe. Anyway was just curious. Good luck! 🙂

 

[njbmd]

I have a high undergrad GPA and low grad school GPA. grad school was History and I left before finishing the degree. I need some info on how important the grad GPA is versus undergrad. OH, and I've taken pre-req sciencecourses since leaving grad school and am 4.0 in those. Will med schools get my 2 GPAs seperately as well as an overall? where will the post-bacc classes go? anyone know?

Hi there,
Your grades will be calulated as undergraduate GPA, post bacc (anything that you took outside of your first bacculaurate degree and outside a formal graduate degree) and graduate (anything that you took while in a formal graduate program). The AMCAS submits a separate average to the medical schools that you apply to. In general, graduate grades are not weighted as heavily as your original undergraduate GPA. They will be examined however. If you took your pre-med courses as post bacc, they will be figured into your cumulative science GPA.

njbmd 🙂

 

[Sundarban1]

Osteopathic schools do factor in your graduate school GPA into your undergraduate GPA, just to confuse the issue.

 

[cdpiano27]

I have a similar situation, put probably not as bad.

My undergrad GPA is very high 3.95, and my post-bac (science courses taken in grad school as prereqs) probably will be around 3.9.

However, my GPA graduated on the MS/PhD grad courses will be between 3.6 and 3.7 (probably 3.65 according to my calculations) due to some extremely difficult PhD courses in my mathematical major. So every graduate course is basically a math course.

Would schools view this as too much of a drop in performance?
Or is it OK? My majors are all mathematically related except I majored in music at one time.
Note (I had one year of community college in my undergrad around 46 credits). All the postbac courses are being taken at a four-year university ranked in the second tier (where I am getting the grad degree from) (about #70- something) including some courses (gen chem and physics) that I plan to take over again since they were taken in back in 2001 at a CC with A's.

Any suggestions? Besides genetics (I have taken this with A), anatomy/physiology, micro, and biochem, what other science upper division electives are useful? If I had AP credit for biology but the school did not honor it do I have to repeat this or can I replace it with upper division courses such as cell biology and immunology?

 

[JD/MD]

Just curious, what brought you towards the MD world? I had a friend who had JD, and applied for a job at a biomedical lawfirm. They wouldn't accept her because she didn't have a PhD or MD..haha. I thought that was kinda funny. Never thought there would be a job that would have a firm requirement for dual doctorates..hehe. Anyway was just curious. Good luck! 🙂

Relentless, to the extent this answers your question, I don't want to go to med school to make myself more marketable/valuable to law firms that practice in the life sciences field. However, like your friend, it is also my experience that many firms with a significant life sciences practice will seek to hire attys with a related degree, although I've never heard of one *requiring* that the would-be hire have a Ph.D. or an M.D. That being said, there are many attorneys out there, esp. patent attys, who have another doctorate, usually a Ph.D. Thanks for your note.

 

[GraC_undr_PrsR]

I'm at Oxford and there is nothing such as: transcripts or grades for graduate students. There are only two assessments: a transfer process (to pursue a PhD or Masters) and the final submission of the thesis. So, I don't know what AMCAS will make of that!

~GraC

 

[Scottish Chap]

I'm at Oxford and there is nothing such as: transcripts or grades for graduate students. There are only two assessments: a transfer process (to pursue a PhD or Masters) and the final submission of the thesis. So, I don't know what AMCAS will make of that!

~GraC

You'll have "foreign undergraduate institution, not coded" on your AMCAS form like I did. I, too, had a British degree when I applied. When you interview, you may even have "foreign undergraduate institution, not coded" written on your interview packet too. That was amusing.

 

[kidthor]

Just curious, what brought you towards the MD world? I had a friend who had JD, and applied for a job at a biomedical lawfirm. They wouldn't accept her because she didn't have a PhD or MD..haha. I thought that was kinda funny. Never thought there would be a job that would have a firm requirement for dual doctorates..hehe. Anyway was just curious. Good luck! 🙂

That is indeed quite unusual that a firm wouldn't accept someone because they don't have an MD or PhD, even for an IP firm... The one exception is that biotech patent prosecution firms do have a special affinity for PhDs in that area, but I got hired by a high end patent firm (that does lots of biotech stuff) and I certianly don't have a PhD!

 

[ladpm]

So to make this clear for a slow person like me...
1. undergrad, post-bac, and grad GPA are separated
2. undergrad GPA is separated by each year
3. Post-bac + undergrad = GPA

For the undergrad GPA, is it also divided by a science and and overall GPA for each year? If so, my science GPA is lower that the overall GPA...shouldn't have taken all those stupid upper division chemistry and biology classes. I think PChem was design to make you fail

 

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

Thanks to 2Sexy and Nirav for sharing their experiences. I think I got my question answered--you guys think my law-school GPA won't by itself torpedo my chances. I didn't want to dive into post-bacc classes if my law school performance was going to make med school admission impossible or very difficult. Thanks.

Just an update -- I just had my first open-file interview and the subject of grades came up; they wanted to know why my MCAT was high and my law school GPA sucked donkey appendage.

I explained the way grades were awarded at my law school and then how AMCAS translated them on my primary; basically anything at or above a C+/B- was above the mean....

I won't get the official word until next week, but my interviewer appeared satisfied with my explanation. In retrospect, I think another (perhaps even better?) way to address the issue would have been to say, "Yeah, my law school grades stank, but that's because I really should have gone to med school; if you would turn your attention to my MCAT and post-bac science classes you'll see what I mean."

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

I won't get the official word until next week, but my interviewer appeared satisfied with my explanation. In retrospect, I think another (perhaps even better?) way to address the issue would have been to say, "Yeah, my law school grades stank, but that's because I really should have gone to med school; if you would turn your attention to my MCAT and post-bac science classes you'll see what I mean."

I'm sure that your explanation was fine, but, if it ever comes up at another interview, what you wrote above (^^^) is a better explanation, IMHO. It's basically how I am going to explain why I didn't finish my PhD (even though I had very good grades, so the situations are not completely analogous) and why I want to change my career to medicine.

Good Luck,

Jota

 

[QofQuimica]

Just an update -- I just had my first open-file interview and the subject of grades came up; they wanted to know why my MCAT was high and my law school GPA sucked donkey appendage.

I explained the way grades were awarded at my law school and then how AMCAS translated them on my primary; basically anything at or above a C+/B- was above the mean....

I won't get the official word until next week, but my interviewer appeared satisfied with my explanation. In retrospect, I think another (perhaps even better?) way to address the issue would have been to say, "Yeah, my law school grades stank, but that's because I really should have gone to med school; if you would turn your attention to my MCAT and post-bac science classes you'll see what I mean."

I don't know, I think the answer you actually gave might have been better. I'm just thinking how I'd react to having some lawyer tell me that his law school grades were bad b/c he should have gone to med school. I think I'd be skeptical. You know what it is? That's just the kind of glib non-answer to the question that you'd expect to hear from a lawyer. 😛 Now if you said they were bad b/c of your own shortcomings, that would sound more sincere to me, like you were taking responsibility for them. Anyway, hope the interviewer liked the answer you gave, and that you get your acceptance.

 

[faridm]

f

 

[Dr Trek 1]

Law school grades will never really matter unless you apply to an additional graduate program, especially med school.

Most all graduate programs have an incredibly inflated grading style, and med schools know this. That may be why they were thrown off by your lower law school grades. Even though law school and what most people think of when they hear "grad" school is different, med school may have trouble differentiating.

 

[ValidPoint]

ok so heres a ?

what should the post bacch be in... should it be like an MS or an MPH or something completely different like english or whatever... also....if you had a weak undergrad...then u'd wanna make grad the one to be counted, well at least looked on upon as a better deal.....so what should you do the post bacch in? thanks 🙄

 

[Law2Doc]

Law school grades will never really matter unless you apply to an additional graduate program, especially med school.

Most all graduate programs have an incredibly inflated grading style, and med schools know this. That may be why they were thrown off by your lower law school grades. Even though law school and what most people think of when they hear "grad" school is different, med school may have trouble differentiating.

I actually don't think most law schools suffer from the same grade inflation issues of grad schools at large, and I didn't notice much confusion by adcoms with respect to how to regard law school stats. However I certainly think they place less emphasis on law school grades than on UG, postbac, science degrees and other relevant studies, as well as subsequent work experience. Graduate degrees in other fields seem to be looked at much more like ECs, making you a more diverse applicant, but don't really weigh in much on the GPA issue, as far as I could tell.

 

[Law2Doc]

ok so heres a ?

what should the post bacch be in... should it be like an MS or an MPH or something completely different like english or whatever... also....if you had a weak undergrad...then u'd wanna make grad the one to be counted, well at least looked on upon as a better deal.....so what should you do the post bacch in? thanks 🙄

Med schools want to see improvement and recent success in hard sciences. You aren't going to make yourself look good to med schools by doing a postbac or masters focusing on english, or literature, etc. People don't do this to get into med school. If you want to do a postbac to help yourself into med school you either take one that involves taking or retaking the prereqs, or you take upper level sciences. An MS in hard sciences would also look good, but graduate grades do not help to negate a weak undergrad performance, so many folks take undergraduate level coursework in their postbacs, to get grade rehabilitation effects. Does that answer the question??

 

[ValidPoint]

Med schools want to see improvement and recent success in hard sciences. You aren't going to make yourself look good to med schools by doing a postbac or masters focusing on english, or literature, etc. People don't do this to get into med school. If you want to do a postbac to help yourself into med school you either take one that involves taking or retaking the prereqs, or you take upper level sciences. An MS in hard sciences would also look good, but graduate grades do not help to negate a weak undergrad performance, so many folks take undergraduate level coursework in their postbacs, to get grade rehabilitation effects. Does that answer the question??

yea it does..thanks... i was never planning on doing a masters in english though......however... what do you think about an mph or just an ms in like bio or something 😕

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

the issue with doing a masters is the grade inflation of grad school. i was a history grad student and a C was the equivalent of an F. You'd lose your funding with anything below a 3.0 and be put on probation. Thus, profs grade with such in mind. So, you're better off just taking upper level udergrad classes a la carte. If you want a masters for some other reason, that's different. But for grade improvement alone, undergrad is the way to go.

 

[relentless11]

yea it does..thanks... i was never planning on doing a masters in english though......however... what do you think about an mph or just an ms in like bio or something 😕

Post-bacc often times refers to doing upper div undergrad work after getting your bachelors degree. You are talking about graduate school coursework. Law2Doc's statement still applies to some extent for MS degrees including those in biology or an MPH. Graduate courses in any MA/MS/MPH/PhD program will never add to undergraduate GPA. The only way to add to your undergrad GPA during a graduate program is to take undergrad upper div courses as ELECTIVES. However some programs may NOT allow you to do this due to program policy and/or the amount of time you have available per quarter/semester.

the issue with doing a masters is the grade inflation of grad school. i was a history grad student and a C was the equivalent of an F. You'd lose your funding with anything below a 3.0 and be put on probation. Thus, profs grade with such in mind. So, you're better off just taking upper level udergrad classes a la carte. If you want a masters for some other reason, that's different. But for grade improvement alone, undergrad is the way to go.

Maybe thats what your school is like, but on our end over here. A B- is considered failing (2.7 GPA), We are graded on standard 90/80/70 basis. At most I've seen them move the cut-off's by 2% (e.g.: A- is a 88%, etc). Inflation isn't really the issue based on discussions people here on SDN, and our administration at UCDSOM. Its more like comparing apples and oranges. The vast majority of people that apply to med school have ONLY undergrad GPAs. To put everyone on the same playing field, undergrad GPA must be weighted. If the inflation was the real issue, then Special Masters Programs would not be as successful as they are. SMPs offer med school courses and in all honesty, the med school courses in basic science are essentially grad school courses. Besides, I don't think people getting A's in grad school are due to any type of manipulation of the grading scale, its probably due to the abilities and motivations of grad students in the program. For my PhD program, our medical statistics program (med school course) had a mean of 93% after our 2nd exam, while systemic pathology course was had a course mean of 88%.