Grade Deflation-Can I Argue?

[Chrissy]

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Hi all,

I just finished physics II and found out I receieved a B+. I'm well aware that similar rants have been written on SDN, but I seriously need some honest opinions. I went into the final exam with a 96 numerical average in the class (after 3 hourly exams) and the final exam was worth one third of our grade. I don't know my exact score on the final yet, but it seems that I would have needed a score in the low-mid 70's to drop my grade to a B+. I left the final very confident and find this near impossible. I am also aware that a B+ is not the worst grade in the world, but i'm a post-bacc student who really needs the highest grades possible. I have emailed the professor to find out my score and have asked to see the actual exam because I fear I did well, but the final grades were deflated to give the prof a more acceptable grade distribution. I felt he was a fairly lenient grader so I'm worried a full A in the class may have been something obscenely high like a 95/96+ . My problem with this is his grading policy was never clearly defined in his syllabus or verbally. Silly me, I thought I was doing well with a 96 average. I guess my overall question is: what leeway, if any, does a student have in politely inquiring about a final grade? I feel that it is extremely unfair to earn such high test grades only to go down 2 grades in the end based on a curve. Additionally, if it matters I know I scored the highest grades in the class on the first two exams so even if "everyone" did well i was still at the top of the curve. Something seems fishy. has anyone gone through this of have some advice? Thanks!!!

 

[armybound]

You want to argue the grade with the professor?

You can discuss it with the professor. If you feel s/he is being unreasonable, you can take it to his superior (the Dean). you better have an average deserving of an A without a curve, though.

I was at the top of my class in OChem and still got a B+. Some professors don't give As for anything less than amazing grades.

 

[BigRedPremed]

Only if you feel a calculation mistake was made. How the professor chooses to curve his class is his business.

 

[doctortobe2012]

his class, he can do what the f*** he wants. that's how it is. you did WELL. it's fine that you asked to see your grade. once you get your grade, that's it. move on, buddy!

 

[kenmc3]

You can inquire about it. However, chances are the professor wont change anything.

But don't worry, even as a post-bac a B+ wont hurt your admissions chances.

 

[nick_carraway]

I know that I saw one secondary which wanted a written explanation if your class policy made your grade lower than it should have been. Perhaps it was Columbia's. I'm not sure. Read your secondaries carefully and you might be able to bump it up in the minds of the adcoms even if you can't convince your prof.

 

[doinmybest5840]

I had a 95 in my Physics I lab but got a B because of a strict curve. It sucks, but it happens. Life sucks. Your class wasn't the only one that's ever been curved. You can try to talk to the professor, but honestly I don't think much will change. Good luck.

 

[SketchLazy]

Hi all,

I just finished physics II and found out I receieved a B+. I'm well aware that similar rants have been written on SDN, but I seriously need some honest opinions. I went into the final exam with a 96 numerical average in the class (after 3 hourly exams) and the final exam was worth one third of our grade. I don't know my exact score on the final yet, but it seems that I would have needed a score in the low-mid 70's to drop my grade to a B+. I left the final very confident and find this near impossible. I am also aware that a B+ is not the worst grade in the world, but i'm a post-bacc student who really needs the highest grades possible. I have emailed the professor to find out my score and have asked to see the actual exam because I fear I did well, but the final grades were deflated to give the prof a more acceptable grade distribution. I felt he was a fairly lenient grader so I'm worried a full A in the class may have been something obscenely high like a 95/96+ . My problem with this is his grading policy was never clearly defined in his syllabus or verbally. Silly me, I thought I was doing well with a 96 average. I guess my overall question is: what leeway, if any, does a student have in politely inquiring about a final grade? I feel that it is extremely unfair to earn such high test grades only to go down 2 grades in the end based on a curve. Additionally, if it matters I know I scored the highest grades in the class on the first two exams so even if "everyone" did well i was still at the top of the curve. Something seems fishy. has anyone gone through this of have some advice? Thanks!!!

It will be hard to argue against the way in which he decided to curve the class or assign grades. Considering all the red tape you will have to go through just to do it, it might not be worth it (especially since it's a B+). Hopefully, he just made a scoring/grading mistake. If he added up your points wrong, that's an easy fix. If not, find out how close you are to an A- and just fight for every extra point on the final exam that you can get. Just make sure you are not asking for that A- or A, because accusing him of not being able to grade properly or giving him a sob story won't work. If your grade doesn't change, I wouldn't worry anyway. After all of the units you've taken, the difference between a B+, an A-, and an A in terms of how it affects your GPA is minuscule.

 

[etf]

i had a high B+ going into my physics final. my prof said that if you get an A on the final, you get an A in the class (since it was worth 40%). i got a 96 (a solid A). she gave me a B+. honestly, if the only change i made to my transcript was change all the B+s to A-s, I'd be UCSF material.

 

[littlealex]

I once went into a final PRESENTATION with a 95% in the class. The final was worth 20% of my grade, and I came out with a B+ in the class.

Numerically speaking, I would need to get a D on the presentation for that to even be possible, and I thought while my presentation was not amazing, it was on-par with the rest of the class.

In the end, it cost me 0.01 on my cumulative GPA. Not worth arguing for.


p.s. The professor was a racist who was racist against non-African Americans! Imagine that! She was subsequently barred from teaching at our school after her only semester. That effing whxre.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Wait and see what your professor says; it's quite possible that he made a mistake grading your exam or calculating your final grade.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

his class, he can do what the f*** he wants. that's how it is. you did WELL. it's fine that you asked to see your grade. once you get your grade, that's it. move on, buddy!

Thats bull****. There are too many professors who seem to think they have carte blanche when it comes to assigning grades. Education is a business and like all businesses, the customer is entitled to the product they have paid for. A waiter couldn't bring a vegetarian a steak they didn't order, but somehow professors are allowed to get off by torturing ambitious students because they have already endured the tortures of reaching the upper ranks of Academia. It's not his class, it's the students'. He is an employee of the school, not Aristotle.

If you have a 96% average in a class and don't get an A, you owe it to yourself and the school to report this injustice to the Dean. If a professor can't design tests with enough difficulty to arrive at a proper, curve-able distribution, then it's their problem. They shouldn't penalize a near-perfect performance because they simply don't give a ****. If I was the dean, I would hope that students would report such crazy, unjust grading policies so that I could put an end to it.

 

[capn jazz]

Thats bull****. There are too many professors who seem to think they have carte blanche when it comes to assigning grades. Education is a business and like all businesses, the customer is entitled to the product they have paid for. A waiter couldn't bring a vegetarian a steak they didn't order, but somehow professors are allowed to get off by torturing ambitious students because they have already endured the tortures of reaching the upper ranks of Academia. It's not his class, it's the students'. He is an employee of the school, not Aristotle.

Well... the professor is more like the boss. Life isn't always fair, but the guy in charge makes up the rules. You ordered a course with a certain professor and got it. You don't order your grade, or your grading policy.

Seriously, how do you deal with the real world if you feel like bad curves are that much of an injustice?

 

[mcpremed]

hey op,

it sounds like you goto Hopkins 😉. I don't think "grade-deflation" is a legit argument for adcoms.

 

[Chrissy]

apparently I bombed the final and the prof said he was "puzzled" by my score so he even looked over everything twice....this makes me more upset. It's easier being angry at someone else.

ps. penn not hopkins

 

[medicalCPA]

All the more reason you should ask to see your final exam, so you (and if you're lucky, he) can go over it. Doing this now is the only way to satisfy yourself if you truly bombed the final or not. I once got a wrong grade put on my transcript, and that grade stayed on my transcript for one year because I never went to see the professor.
Go see him now, and ask to see your final exam which he said you bombed. It won't hurt, just ask him nicely.

 

[quiltlady]

I hope you don't plan to ask for a letter from this prof. There is nothing which puts you in worse light than bickering over a grade.

 

[Bartelby]

I hope you don't plan to ask for a letter from this prof. There is nothing which puts you in worse light than bickering over a grade.

If all you did was ask for your final grade and/or express surprise at not receiving an "A," I would not call it bickering-- as the OP mentioned, even the professor was surprised by the grade. Still, if you bombed the final I would avoid asking for a letter from that professor unless you have taken several classes with him and done well on everything but that one final. This kind of thing happens, though, so don't beat yourself up too much over it.

 

[Karen12345]

I would let it go. Whining over a B+ could look bad and proably would be. Relax, it happens to many pre-meds and isn't the end of the world.

 

[DrReo]

I like your attitude, you should post that by every college/universities' missions!😀

Thats bull****. There are too many professors who seem to think they have carte blanche when it comes to assigning grades. Education is a business and like all businesses, the customer is entitled to the product they have paid for. A waiter couldn't bring a vegetarian a steak they didn't order, but somehow professors are allowed to get off by torturing ambitious students because they have already endured the tortures of reaching the upper ranks of Academia. It's not his class, it's the students'. He is an employee of the school, not Aristotle.

If you have a 96% average in a class and don't get an A, you owe it to yourself and the school to report this injustice to the Dean. If a professor can't design tests with enough difficulty to arrive at a proper, curve-able distribution, then it's their problem. They shouldn't penalize a near-perfect performance because they simply don't give a ****. If I was the dean, I would hope that students would report such crazy, unjust grading policies so that I could put an end to it.

​

 

[Bacchus]

The OP has the right to see the exam. Asking to see it is not whining but rather just an inquiry. A 96% average to a B+ is a drastic drop and the OP atleast has the right to see the final. Its not whining. If you call it whining then I don't know what you'd call half the other stuff on this board.

Edit: Bell curves do suck for a lot of people. I can't necessarily complain about them though. My orgo professor curved our class and put the average at a B. My 86 got shifted to an A. I do feel for you on physics because I got a B+ aswell and only needed a few more points. It will be alright and you definitely have the right to see the exam. I had this issue with a humanities course and just gave up several weeks into the ordeal because the professor was always "busy." I was sick of the BS and just let it go.

 

[spanamit]

Hi all,

I just finished physics II and found out I receieved a B+. I'm well aware that similar rants have been written on SDN, but I seriously need some honest opinions. I went into the final exam with a 96 numerical average in the class (after 3 hourly exams) and the final exam was worth one third of our grade. I don't know my exact score on the final yet, but it seems that I would have needed a score in the low-mid 70's to drop my grade to a B+. I left the final very confident and find this near impossible. I am also aware that a B+ is not the worst grade in the world, but i'm a post-bacc student who really needs the highest grades possible. I have emailed the professor to find out my score and have asked to see the actual exam because I fear I did well, but the final grades were deflated to give the prof a more acceptable grade distribution. I felt he was a fairly lenient grader so I'm worried a full A in the class may have been something obscenely high like a 95/96+ . My problem with this is his grading policy was never clearly defined in his syllabus or verbally. Silly me, I thought I was doing well with a 96 average. I guess my overall question is: what leeway, if any, does a student have in politely inquiring about a final grade? I feel that it is extremely unfair to earn such high test grades only to go down 2 grades in the end based on a curve. Additionally, if it matters I know I scored the highest grades in the class on the first two exams so even if "everyone" did well i was still at the top of the curve. Something seems fishy. has anyone gone through this of have some advice? Thanks!!!

It is one B+. Seriously man, get over it!

Are you going to argue over grades with your preceptors during clinical rotations too?

 

[MChitty]

I think you should look over exam, but unless it's a mathematical error, I agree that there isn't much you can do. I had friends who dealt with this in school--it was actually the business school at our university that used to be notorious for this--and I can't imagine how much it sucks. It is still a B+ though...

 

[HanginInThere]

If all you did was ask for your final grade and/or express surprise at not receiving an "A," I would not call it bickering-- as the OP mentioned, even the professor was surprised by the grade. Still, if you bombed the final I would avoid asking for a letter from that professor unless you have taken several classes with him and done well on everything but that one final. This kind of thing happens, though, so don't beat yourself up too much over it.

I agree with the bolded part of Bartelby's post. You and your professor are both surprised at your performance on the final. I think it's worth asking him to look at it with you, so you can both understand what went wrong. You should be able to present yourself as interested in material and as wanting to figure out whether you have any conceptual misunderstandings. Give him the chance to work with you from his role as an educator rather than making him fight against you over a few points, and he'll probably appreciate it.

And this is where I disagree with Bartelby. As other people have said, the difference between one B+ and A- isn't going to be huge, but showing the professor your maturity, character, intellectual curiosity, etc. could set you up for a nice letter of recommendation in spite of one bombed final. If this is a huge intro class where the professor just knows students through their scores, you have the chance to really set yourself apart as a serious student who cares about learning for the learning itself rather than just for the grade.

 

[Keyser112]

go to a Canadian school...
the percentages = the letter grade. no questions asked. no one here as ever heard of a 96% being a B+, lol that's too funny.

edit: there is 'curving' down of marks as well as curving them up, but you get both your % and your letter grade curved so they match up.

 

[Flopotomist]

Before jumping into confrontation (and using words like "argue" and "challenge" and "petition the Dean") try having an honest open dialogue with the professor if you feel that you earned an A.

I would look carefully at the syllabus to see what the criteria were for the A grade though before you met, and make sure you met the criteria. I have never heard of a school NOT having written guidelines for each grade in the syllabus - look harder.

I actually had a similar situation once, and it turned out there was another student with a similar name, and when I asked to see the final that I allegedly bombed, I pointed out that the test was not mine. It was an easy problem to fix (eventually).

 

[KeyzerSoze]

The OP has the right to see the exam. Asking to see it is not whining but rather just an inquiry. A 96% average to a B+ is a drastic drop and the OP atleast has the right to see the final. Its not whining. If you call it whining then I don't know what you'd call half the other stuff on this board.

👍

 

[bwonger06]

the same thing happened to me in Chemistry. I felt like i completely aced the final, and somehow i ended up with a 73% on the final and a B+ in the class. I was bummed but i accepted the grade i deserved due to my poor final, although i did go ask the professor to see my test in order to know what i did wrong. I guess im one of those people who learns from my mistake from test.

 

[MattD]

OP already said she bombed the final, so it's not a curve issue anyway.

I would ask the professor for the opportunity to go over the exam with him. Don't come at it as an attempt to bring your grade up, but try to see where you were mistaken and see if between the two of you you can figure out where your logic went wrong. If there were grading mistakes, they'll come out in this process, and that'll be good for you. But more importantly, you'll get the chance to see what material you need to relearn. If you felt confident about the exam, and yet bombed it, you obviously need to readdress the material, and this would be the best way to start that off. Believe me, you WILL see that stuff again on the MCAT.

In the tone of this thread, however, I'll post my own curving horror story. My school posts grades as F - P4 - P2/3 - P1. If it's not obvious, all the people who fail get an F, and the passers are split into quartiles. Top 25% of passers get P1, etc. In Neuroscience this spring, I came out in the end to have a 90% average. I was P4. There were a number of irregularities and dubious changes made to the syllabus in like the last few weeks of the class that caused the curve to be crazy like that, which I could rant about for a while, but I challenge everyone out there to beat THAT one 🙂

 

[gotmeds?]

Hi all,

I just finished physics II and found out I receieved a B+. I'm well aware that similar rants have been written on SDN, but I seriously need some honest opinions. I went into the final exam with a 96 numerical average in the class (after 3 hourly exams) and the final exam was worth one third of our grade. I don't know my exact score on the final yet, but it seems that I would have needed a score in the low-mid 70's to drop my grade to a B+. I left the final very confident and find this near impossible. I am also aware that a B+ is not the worst grade in the world, but i'm a post-bacc student who really needs the highest grades possible. I have emailed the professor to find out my score and have asked to see the actual exam because I fear I did well, but the final grades were deflated to give the prof a more acceptable grade distribution. I felt he was a fairly lenient grader so I'm worried a full A in the class may have been something obscenely high like a 95/96+ . My problem with this is his grading policy was never clearly defined in his syllabus or verbally. Silly me, I thought I was doing well with a 96 average. I guess my overall question is: what leeway, if any, does a student have in politely inquiring about a final grade? I feel that it is extremely unfair to earn such high test grades only to go down 2 grades in the end based on a curve. Additionally, if it matters I know I scored the highest grades in the class on the first two exams so even if "everyone" did well i was still at the top of the curve. Something seems fishy. has anyone gone through this of have some advice? Thanks!!!

What school did you take this at?

 

[Chrissy]

Thanks for all the posts. Weird thing for me is I always read posts on SDN where people say things like this and I sorta want to vomit (no offense to anyone)....that being said this honestly is the first time in my academic career where I really "bombed" an exam...i've done poorly on tests before, but I've never had the experience of doing so well in a class AND leaving an exam as confident as i did only to get such a poor and disapointing result.

To acknowledge the "relax, it's a B+" people: I'm a post-bacc overcoming a low GPA. I'll be applying to med school with an overall GPA of 3.25 or so and a science (56 credits) GPA of 3.6. I'm only taking 10 or 11 post bacc classes so every A in my opinion counts. Hope this is understandable to everyone.

Secondly, I would never ever argue or exude an accusatory tone towards a professor especially when this appears to be my fault. What I will do, is what many people have suggested and inquire politely about my actual score and maybe even crunch the numberd with the prof. Also, as I mentioned somewhere he was never forthcoming or specific on the syllabus about grade cut-offs to i really dont know what he decided to make an A/A-/B+ and so on. Like i said, I just assumed a 96 was an A and going into the final I had this letter grade. So anyway, my next step will be to check in with the prof after he emails my grade and then I will definitely make an appointment to see him if only to identify topics I may not have (apparently) understood. I just hope he is amenable to all this because it will likely take place in 3 or so weeks almost a month after our class ended. Maybe this is not such a bad thing...lately i have really been attracted to PCOM and perhaps I have a decent chance there as everything stands. Thanks again. if anyway has any more suggestions on how to approach the prof or have been in similar situations I'd really like to hear them.

 

[Chrissy]

.

 

[njbmd]

Hi all,

I just finished physics II and found out I receieved a B+. I'm well aware that similar rants have been written on SDN, but I seriously need some honest opinions. I went into the final exam with a 96 numerical average in the class (after 3 hourly exams) and the final exam was worth one third of our grade. I don't know my exact score on the final yet, but it seems that I would have needed a score in the low-mid 70's to drop my grade to a B+. I left the final very confident and find this near impossible. I am also aware that a B+ is not the worst grade in the world, but i'm a post-bacc student who really needs the highest grades possible. I have emailed the professor to find out my score and have asked to see the actual exam because I fear I did well, but the final grades were deflated to give the prof a more acceptable grade distribution. I felt he was a fairly lenient grader so I'm worried a full A in the class may have been something obscenely high like a 95/96+ . My problem with this is his grading policy was never clearly defined in his syllabus or verbally. Silly me, I thought I was doing well with a 96 average. I guess my overall question is: what leeway, if any, does a student have in politely inquiring about a final grade? I feel that it is extremely unfair to earn such high test grades only to go down 2 grades in the end based on a curve. Additionally, if it matters I know I scored the highest grades in the class on the first two exams so even if "everyone" did well i was still at the top of the curve. Something seems fishy. has anyone gone through this of have some advice? Thanks!!!

A couple of points for you to consider:

• The syllabus-What were the criteria for achieving each letter grade?
• Your total performance in the course-Did you meet the criteria for the grade that you believe you deserve?
• Have you reviewed your previous test/project grades and have evidence that a mistake was made?
• Have you made an appointment to discuss your grade and any possible mistakes with the professor?

I can tell you that a Dean has never overturned a grade that I have issued for a student and that I keep meticulous records of grades, exams and project evaluations. In any discussion (and I am happy to review exams with students), I will correct any mistakes as soon as possible and resubmit the grade if necessary (so far that has happened once). I also back-up my grade reports in several manners (encrypted) so that I have plenty of copies and evidence if a clerical error has occurred. If this is the case, I am happy to correct it.

If you feel that this professor's syllabus was inadequate, you should discuss the matter first with the professor and then with the Dean of Students. In most universities, copies of syllabi are submitted to the Dean at the beginning of the course. If there were problems, they are generally corrected and an updated syllabus issued.

I have many students inquiring about grades and final letter grades at the end of the semester. I happily invite these queries and have no problems pointing out where students either dropped in their performance or excelled. It doesn't matter if you received the "highest" grade on previous exams if you did not meet the grading criteria as outlined in the syllabus. It does not matter if you are post bacc, undergraduate or in high school, it's your performance within the context of what is expected of you that counts in the end.