Grade "Forgiveness" in MD schools

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Bob Debilder

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I started undergrad at a UC as a Bio student but long story short things didn't work out and I'm about to graduate in a totally different major. I'm planning on retaking the prerequisites (I either didn't take or didn't do well in most prereqs, although I did great in some classes like intro-Bio series) but based on the things I've been reading online, it seems as if MD schools are heavily focused on your total GPA or your screw ups from when you were a stupid 17 year old.

My question is, if I do significantly well when retaking these classes, will MD schools be more interested in that and adopt a somewhat forgiving approach towards my first undergrad stint? Or will they still be hung up about total GPA etc, in which case I imagine I should stick to looking at DO schools?

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They will look at your total GPA and ignore institution-specific grade forgiveness. This said, they will still look at strong upward trends and recent evidence of academic fitness as qualifiers for admission.

So do well in your new courses and on the MCAT. You can't get away from your past, but you can do everything possible to minimize its effect on your application.

:thumbup:

edit: I didn't really answer your question. MD schools are still in the picture (but DO may be easier)!
 
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if I do significantly well when retaking these classes, will MD schools be more interested in that and adopt a somewhat forgiving approach towards my first undergrad stint? Or will they still be hung up about total GPA
Both. See the long discussion in the recent threads about "schools that reward reinvention". And just do me a favor and don't start thinking there are MD schools that reward reinvention.

Depending on your damage, consider moving to a more generous state. Look into the policies for state residents of TX, LA, MI. Note that being a student does not establish domicile in another state, generally. You're the grownup who needs to read the fine print.

Best of luck to you.
 
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@ DrMidlife

The thread I found seemed to suggest that many schools would cut you off at certain GPA's based on overall GPA calculations, now I have no clue what my overall GPA would be in this theoretical situation but I imagine even with a good performance on retakes, if my first stint was bad enough, I could basically get cut off by MD schools no matter how well I do the second time around?

So it's largely down to DO schools then?

Also, when you say that "do me a favor and don't think MD schools reward reinvention," do you mean they don't specifically reward you/give extra consideration if you have a reinvention story, or do you mean they don't care too much that you totally reinvented yourself and will still drop you from consideration based on overall GPA (essentially giving undue weight to your past)?
 
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I must disagree with my learned colleague and there are indeed MD schools that reward reinvention. One must ace an SMP or post-back, and ace MCAT as well.

Grade replacement and going DO will get you to being a doctor faster.



@ DrMidlife

The thread I found seemed to suggest that many schools would cut you off at certain GPA's based on overall GPA calculations, now I have no clue what my overall GPA would be in this theoretical situation but I imagine even with a good performance on retakes, if my first stint was bad enough, I could basically get cut off by MD schools no matter how well I do the second time around?

So it's largely down to DO schools then?

Also, when you say that "do me a favor and don't think MD schools reward reinvention," do you mean they don't specifically reward you/give extra consideration if you have a reinvention story, or do you mean they don't care too much that you totally reinvented yourself and will still drop you from consideration based on overall GPA (essentially giving undue weight to your past)?
 
So you're saying you didn't read the threads I suggested looking for?
 
So you're saying you didn't read the threads I suggested looking for?


Sorry but I searched the words you said to search, if I couldn't find the threads you had in mind, any chance you can please link them here?
 
I must disagree with my learned colleague and there are indeed MD schools that reward reinvention. One must ace an SMP or post-back, and ace MCAT as well.

Grade replacement and going DO will get you to being a doctor faster.


That's for sure, but isn't it also slightly constricting in terms of what type of medicine you can get into? I know a DO can technically specialize in anything but it seems that a lot of doors are much tougher to get a foot in if you're a DO.
 
How to find a thread using suggested keywords on SDN:

1. In the current forum, scroll up and down to see if you find those keywords in thread titles.
2. If that doesn't work, in the search box, enter those keywords.

In this case, if you enter "reinvention" in the search box, the top 2 hits are the threads I'm talking about.

How to search the internet, in general:
1. Choose some words to describe what you want
2. Search on those words
3. Modify your search until successful.
4. Frequently the least common, most specific term, is all you need.
 
How to find a thread using suggested keywords on SDN:

1. In the current forum, scroll up and down to see if you find those keywords in thread titles.
2. If that doesn't work, in the search box, enter those keywords.

In this case, if you enter "reinvention" in the search box, the top 2 hits are the threads I'm talking about.

How to search the internet, in general:
1. Choose some words to describe what you want
2. Search on those words
3. Modify your search until successful.
4. Frequently the least common, most specific term, is all you need.


Ok, apparently I was reading ones other than the ones you wanted me to. I found the threads you were talking about. As far as your statement about MD schools "Rewarding" reinvention though, I am still a bit unsure by what exactly you mean with the word "rewarding."
 
See now if you read the threads, you'll see my detailed commentary on why I think "what med schools reward reinvention" is the wrong question.

DM out.
 
Well, how badly do you want to be a doctor? Beggars can't be choosy. Yes, it's harder to specialize as a DO grad, but not impossible.


That's for sure, but isn't it also slightly constricting in terms of what type of medicine you can get into? I know a DO can technically specialize in anything but it seems that a lot of doors are much tougher to get a foot in if you're a DO.
 
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Well, how badly do you want to be a doctor? Beggars can't be choosy. Yes, it's harder to specialize as a DO grad, but not impossible.


Very badly, and I understand, not trying to be a snob, just don't want to paint myself into a box unknowingly.
 
I think it's not exactly a black and white situation. There are a lot of MD adcoms who won't give your app the time of day as it stands because there's just so many other more qualified applicants who have never failed, so they'll naturally want to pick the lowest risk one... BUT it's not impossible. Statistically improbable, yes, but if you're just as stubborn as the rest of us then throw everything you've got at that 1% chance of success. If you want MD schools to give your app a second look then you'll need to prove to them you're worth it. I don't think they'll ever "forgive" it, per say. It will always be a red flag that will work against you, but you can demonstrate to them that the you of the past is not the same as you today. Show them through years of hard, excellent academic/extracurricular work that you're the type of individual who will succeed in med school.

As DrMidlife said, learn to look around these forums and you'll find many individuals like you with the same questions/situations and see how they worked through it all.
 
I started undergrad at a UC as a Bio student but long story short things didn't work out and I'm about to graduate in a totally different major. I'm planning on retaking the prerequisites (I either didn't take or didn't do well in most prereqs, although I did great in some classes like intro-Bio series) but based on the things I've been reading online, it seems as if MD schools are heavily focused on your total GPA or your screw ups from when you were a stupid 17 year old.

My question is, if I do significantly well when retaking these classes, will MD schools be more interested in that and adopt a somewhat forgiving approach towards my first undergrad stint? Or will they still be hung up about total GPA etc, in which case I imagine I should stick to looking at DO schools?

I spoke with a number of md and do schools and all of the MD programs looked at the overall GPA (Old and new classes). Many said they set a cutoff and didn't consider anyone lower (overall and BCPM) because they had 6000 applications and didn't need to. So look at the schools you are interested in and contact a few. See how warm and fuzzy they are. When done with req classes and MCAT see where you stand (maybe your gpa will be low but sufficient to make the cutoff) then apply accordingly. There are always exceptions for very unusual reasons but alas not everyone can be an exception.

Best of luck
 
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I spoke with a number of md and do schools and all of the MD programs looked at the overall GPA. Many said they set a cutoff and didn't consider anyone lower because they had 6000 applications and didn't need to. So look at the schools you are interested in and contact a few. See how warm and fuzzy they are. When done with req classes and MCAT see where you stand then apply accordingly.

Best of luck


Welp. Thanks, that pretty much settles/clears things up.
 
Very badly, and I understand, not trying to be a snob, just don't want to paint myself into a box unknowingly.

Even in MD schools, whether you specialize is entirely up to you. You are not a shoe-in in any specialty just because you went to a MD school. IF you get into DO schools, focus on doing well. Get good grades, ace the COMLEX/USMLE, and outstanding letters of recommendation.

Remember that you get what you put in.
 
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