Grade Inflation

[queenskillers]

i know that dental schools care more about a higher gpa than a more prestigious school. i was wondering if there are any undergrad institutions in particular that have grade inflation (and i dont mean ivy leagues, im talking about elite privates)? does bu hav grade inflation for their undergrad?

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[J2AZ]

Define grade inflation...are you asking if profs make classes easier than they should be or that they just give away good grades? I highly doubt that is common practice at any institution. Most profs I know are ethical and take pride in making classes difficult. I do however believe that the hardest part of an Ivy League education is getting accepted and that the education, especially in the sciences is equal to that of any public school. Also, any grade inflation is indicated by an applicants DAT score. A 3.7 science GPA and a 17 TS will indicate that something is up. Not saying a 17 is bad but teamed with a 3.7 says the student either didn't study b/c or arrogance or apathy or the student's school hands out grades.

 

[aphistis]

i know that dental schools care more about a higher gpa than a more prestigious school. i was wondering if there are any undergrad institutions in particular that have grade inflation (and i dont mean ivy leagues, im talking about elite privates)? does bu hav grade inflation for their undergrad?

...how exactly would you describe an Ivy League school, if not as "elite private"?

 

[jdcinza13]

I think grade inflation is a little bit more prevalent than most people think. Schools want to show that their students are doing well and graduating with more success/knowledge and that ties in to higher and higher GPAs. I'm not saying someone is going from at C to a B in every class, but If you go from a B to a B+ because of inflation, over a period of time, your GPA has been inflated. It wasn't much, and it wasn't every class, but that is still inflation.

I'm not saying it's rampant, but instructors want to look good, institutions want to look good and the way that happens is for students to get a higher GPA. It shows success at all levels and that's what people want.

 

[msf41]

I think grades are inflating because standards of what is acceptable is changing. The old standard was like this:

A = outstanding
B = good
C = average
D = deficient
F = fail

Today I'd say grades have a new definition:

A = what's expected
B = how come you couldn't get an A
C = you must have been ill for half the semester
D = are you sure you attended the right class?
F = ???

I think the fact that high GPA's are not only common these days, has led to schools looking at other ways to differentiate between applicannts: the LOR, essays, extra curricular.

 

[DREDAY]

I have a question for y'all...I went to an Ivy and will admit that some of the Ivy schools have more rampant grade inflation than others -- but keep in mind that grade inflation isn't solely and "ivy problem". They seem to be a target of a long of these grade inflation discussions ..Anyway, I was curious to find out what my GPA would be if I got the median grade in all of my classes, which is listed on my transcript. (Keep in mind I was a science major)

What's your vote? And before I tell you the answer, what would be an average GPA at a school that you consider doesn't have grade inflation?

Can we all agree that the days when a 2.0 GPA meant you were average are long gone?

The average GPA depends on the major. At UCLA for example the average gpa for a MOLECULAR BIOLOGY major is a 2.6. The average GPA for a polical science major however is a 3.4. The major plays a large role on the average GPA. I think grade inflation primarily plays a role in school like stanford and harvard where they do not fail students so that their prestige does not go down. Students can drop a class up until the final without receiving a W at stanford and harvard. In addition if those school notice your grades are sub par they will set up the student with a tutor. These schools are committed to keeping their gpa as high as possible.

 

[jdcinza13]

Can we all agree that the days when a 2.0 GPA meant you were average are long gone?

Agreed!!!!

 

[rocknightmare]

i graduated from uva.. and i know that political science majors, english majors and any non science majors shoot for a gpa of 3.6 and above. anything else they must be doing something wrong. on the other hand science majors average gpa would be around 3.3 or lower. so the there is def a grade inflation in that respect.

I say grade inflation applies to classes that do not care about a bell curve.

 

[jdcinza13]

you can still have a bell curve and have inflated grades.

 

[J2AZ]

I say grade inflation applies to classes that do not care about a bell curve.

Why should any class "care" about the bell curve? I don't know if you meant to do this but you imply that the bell curve is a great way to measure the performance of a class. I hate the bell curve. I strongly believe you should get the grade you earn. If 100% of the class scores over 90 or 92% then they all get A's. They earned it. Why should we slap a bell curve on it? Also I would argue that the bell curve not only deflates some grades, as you have pointed out, but it inflates a whole lot more. In some classes, engr. or chem, there would be very few A's and B's without the bell curve.

 

[edkNARF]

Most profs I know are ethical and take pride in making classes difficult. I do however believe that the hardest part of an Ivy League education is getting accepted and that the education, especially in the sciences is equal to that of any public school.

I happen to disagree with this statement. I think you are stating that ivy league professors are unethical and are just handing out grades. I can attest that this is not the case. I had to work very hard for every grade I received!

To address the entire concept of grade inflation...
If a school has some of the top students in the country (based on standardized test scores, etc), then it stands to reason that their students have some of the top minds in the country. If they give out more As than other schools, maybe it is just their way of "correcting" for the fact that their lower 10% is equivalent to the top 10% at other schools. Adcoms know the caliber of student that each school produces. If this weren't the case, then the ivies would have an incredibly low acceptance rate for grad schools acceptances. On one of my interviews, I was told "you don't have a very high GPA, but that isn't expected coming from your school." In the end, adcoms have other bars to measure applicants by besides GPA (i.e.-the DAT).

 

[ItsGavinC]

Can we all agree that the days when a 2.0 GPA meant you were average are long gone?

I don't know that it ever meant such a thing. It traditionally means you did average work, but not in the sense that you were statistically middle-of-the-road with your peers, but in the sense that the work was not outstanding, yet not completely deficient of value--it was just mediocre, or average.

 

[queenskillers]

can anyone still tell me if bu has grade deflation or grade inflation (by this i mean are the general gpas for science majors very low/high compared to other schoos)

 

[Neon Black]

you can still have a bell curve and have inflated grades.

Uh, not exactly. A true std deviation bell curve is around 68% C's and 3% A's.

 

[kato999]

the science courses at Notre Dame the avg score on a test was usually a B- (2.67) and everyones score was curved from there. this could be considered grade inflation since the avg was not a C.

personally i think the elites should be able to get away with a little grade inflation because i know it is much easier to get a 3.5 from the University of Minnesota (i took some classes there) than it is to get a 3.0 at ND. simply look at the competition, i.e the avg SAT scores/high school class ranks of the students you have fight the curve with in class.

 

[rocknightmare]

what i was trying to imply by bell curve is the fact that for non-science classes at uva there isn't one and that allows professors to give out as many A's as they want.. but in science classes a bell curve must be applied since the department demands it on lower level classes to weed out pre-professional students..

in addition, the reason a curve is needed in engering classes and sciences classes is because the teachers are not testing you on the min information you need to know they want to test you on everything and beyond and if nobody gets the question right then nobody gets hurt but the person that does get the question right they get added bonus ... otherwise professors can make exams easier and only test the stuff that one really needs to know and no curve will be needed.

 

[J2AZ]

I happen to disagree with this statement. I think you are stating that ivy league professors are unethical and are just handing out grades. I can attest that this is not the case. I had to work very hard for every grade I received! .

I think you misread my post. I do not state that Ivy league profs are unethical. I state that all the prof I know ARE ethical and that they take pride in making classes difficult. In addition, I do not state that they give grades away but rather that biochem or physics at Harvard is not going to be any more difficult than biochem at UCLA. However, getting into Harvard will be more difficult than getting into UCLA. Once there a science education will be about the same. Biochem is biochem no matter where you study.

 

[kato999]

In addition, I do not state that they give grades away but rather that biochem or physics at Harvard is not going to be any more difficult than biochem at UCLA.

The material probably may not be anymore difficult but if you are graded on any sort of curve it will be tougher to achieve higher grades simply because of the level of competition. if you gave the exact same biochem test to harvard and ucla students i would be willing to bet that the harvard students would give you a higher mean.

although i do know that ucla can be very competitive as well.

 

[podil]

The material probably may not be anymore difficult but if you are graded on any sort of curve it will be tougher to achieve higher grades simply because of the level of competition. if you gave the exact same biochem test to harvard and ucla students i would be willing to bet that the harvard students would give you a higher mean.

although i do know that ucla can be very competitive as well.

Agreed. At my school, UC Berkeley, the competition is pretty fierce because of the sheer number of students and the relatively uninflated grades. What limits the school in the number of A's given out is the absolute number of students with high GPA's. For example if Harvard has 10 pre-meds with 3.9 or higher that doesnt mean Berkeley can have 30 if Berkeley has 3 times as many students. To not appear inflated we have to have 10 as well.

I'm not necessarily saying this is unfair. I do believe that Harvard undergrads on the whole would perform better than Berkeley undergrads. I know this because we have a full ride scholarship given out here to students who could get into Harvard, Stanford, etc but just dont have the money. These students attain an average GPA of 3.7 to 3.8 (documented) whereas the overall average GPA is around 3.1-3.2 (I think).

The next question is can the Grad/Med/Dent schools adjust for the different meaning of a GPA from school to school. They could, but they don't (at least not enough). They don't because of the tremendous importance of a schools selectivity in its overall ranking (in US News for example). A big part of that selectivity is the average undergrad GPA of its matriculants (or acceptances). So it makes the school look more selective to take a 4.0 from Podunk U. than a 3.5 from Harvard, even though a 3.5 from Harvard is very impressive. Even though dental schools dont participate in US News they still publish average GPA and DAT, which we all look at and at least subconsciously use to rank the school.

This is why I think that, DAT's being equal, a 3.7 from UC Davis is better (for acceptance) than a 3.4 from UCLA. But, from my personal observations, UCLA students would tend to do better on the DAT than UC Davis students (for example).

I can understand Harvard inflation because it just isnt fair for a student at Harvard with an uninflated 3.0 to be knocked out of contention for med-school even though that person could have gotten a 3.5+ at his or state school, rocked the MCATs and gotten in no problem.

Moral of the story: DAT is super important. It can validate your 3.4 at Ivy League U. or invalidate a 3.9 at Podunk U.

I hope this post made sense.

-P

 

[edkNARF]

I think you misread my post. I do not state that Ivy league profs are unethical. I state that all the prof I know ARE ethical and that they take pride in making classes difficult. In addition, I do not state that they give grades away but rather that biochem or physics at Harvard is not going to be any more difficult than biochem at UCLA. However, getting into Harvard will be more difficult than getting into UCLA. Once there a science education will be about the same. Biochem is biochem no matter where you study.

First, I didn't take any offense to your post. Second, I attended three colleges, SUNY-Buffalo, a community college, and Cornell. I ended up taking Intro Chem at all three (long story). I can say that chem at cornell was ten times as hard as it was at buffalo, and twenty times harder than at my cc. chem is chem no matter where you go (absolute zero is absolute zero whether in ithaca, ny or wahoo, nebraska). The only difference is how the material is tested. Cornell professors wanted us to apply all the knowledge we learned on our tests. The tested on whether or not we understood the "emergent" (a term my biochem prof used) aspects of the subject. This was similar in all science classes at Cornell, and to my understanding at most ivies. For example, when I took physics many of the test questions came from the Physics-GRE, MCAT, and other national standardized tests. The professors thought that if we truly learned the material, we should be good enough to be prepared to take a graduate level entrance exam on it.