Grades during first 2 years

[woodhorse22]

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I don't know about all of you, but I have noticed that is significantly harder to maintain that sweet A in medical school. In undergraduate it was relatively easy especially since a 90% was an A where as in medical school a 90% is an A- which has its not GPA denomination.

How important are grades during the first 2 years of medical school? Thx.

 

[CorpuSpongiosum]

I don't know about all of you, but I have noticed that is significantly harder to maintain that sweet A in medical school. In undergraduate it was relatively easy especially since a 90% was an A where as in medical school a 90% is an A- which has its not GPA denomination.

How important are grades during the first 2 years of medical school? Thx.

Chill out.

In order of importance:

Clinical (3rd year Grades)>Letters of Rec> Boards> Away Rotation > Grades first two years.


Just pass everything the first two years. That is about all that matters from my talks with residents, PD's. I am fourth year. Just don't want you to kill yourself stressing.

 

[MossPoh]

Hmm. Must've been nice to go to a school where a 90 was still an A. It was set at 92 for most of my classes and never went below that. 😛

 

[jrf331]

Chill out.

In order of importance:

Clinical (3rd year Grades)>Letters of Rec> Boards> Away Rotation > Grades first two years.


Just pass everything the first two years. That is about all that matters from my talks with residents, PD's. I am fourth year. Just don't want you to kill yourself stressing.

I have posted this before but here it is again

A bit of new information from an ERAS study about success in the ACGME-NRMP match (MD)
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[Assume parallels in the AOA-NMP match (DO)]

What are programs looking for
things they look for are: AAMC match outcomes for ACGME Programs (best predictors of match)

1. Performance on Step 1 of USMLE
2. Membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (MD school honor society)
3. Existence of applicant authored publications
4. Research experience
5. Number of programs ranked by applicant (the more the better chance)

Also noted (but not ranked in study):
6. Medical school transcripts (clerkship grades)
7. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) = Dean’s letter
8. Letters of recommendation
9. Personal statements from ERAS
10. Interview experience


So Boards and Honor society seem to be the two most important things. And who get into the Honor Society usually top 10-25% of class but this differs with school.

 

[Noeljan]

I have posted this before but here it is again

A bit of new information from an ERAS study about success in the ACGME-NRMP match (MD)
-----
[Assume parallels in the AOA-NMP match (DO)]

What are programs looking for
things they look for are: AAMC match outcomes for ACGME Programs (best predictors of match)

1. Performance on Step 1 of USMLE
2. Membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (MD school honor society)
3. Existence of applicant authored publications
4. Research experience
5. Number of programs ranked by applicant (the more the better chance)

Also noted (but not ranked in study):
6. Medical school transcripts (clerkship grades)
7. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) = Dean’s letter
8. Letters of recommendation
9. Personal statements from ERAS
10. Interview experience


So Boards and Honor society seem to be the two most important things. And who get into the Honor Society usually top 10-25% of class but this differs with school.

but you realize that grades are what usually predicts membership in AOA at most places?

 

[GreenShirt]

but you realize that grades are what usually predicts membership in AOA at most places?

That really goes back to clas rank more so than grades. The OP could be an A- student and still be in the top 10-15% of his class.

OP: Your grades are not as important your class rank. Many med schools are on P/F systems so it's hard for RDs to compare a B+ student to a P student. They can, however, compare the respective class ranks of each candidate and where they went to school to deduct their levels of competitiveness. Of course all this is less important than Boards, LORS, and clinical grades.

 

[Noeljan]

That really goes back to clas rank more so than grades. The OP could be an A- student and still be in the top 10-15% of his class.

OP: Your grades are not as important your class rank. Many med schools are on P/F systems so it's hard for RDs to compare a B+ student to a P student. They can, however, compare the respective class ranks of each candidate and where they went to school to deduct their levels of competitiveness. Of course all this is less important than Boards, LORS, and clinical grades.

Class rank is based on grades, so I am unclear on what you mean by it being more on rank than grades....rank comes from grades. I am sure everything one does can help (grades, boards, letters, etc) as far as residency.

 

[SomeDoc]

Point of clarification:
Academic honor society membership depends on class rank rather than grades, and to some extent (in some schools), some politics.

In a P/F school, a student with an 89 GPA has the same letter grade as another with a 71- a "P". This is where class rank becomes salient in the residency application process.

 

[DragonWell]

I'm a third year, so I have yet to go through the match, but...basically everyone you will ask this question to will you give you a different answer. I have heard people flat out state that MS1&2 grades don't matter, only clinical grades do, while others say that clinical grades don't matter at all, it is only board scores that count, etc...

IMO, the bottom line is this: Do the best you can.

Everything in med school is cumulative and builds upon what came before, so the best prep for step 1 is to do well in MS1&2. Entering MS3 with a solid foundation will help set you up to do well in the clinical years. Doing well in MS3& 4 means you'll be a better intern, and so on.

From talking to residents, my perception is that different programs may have a slightly different formula for what they are looking for in the "ideal" candidate. The best way to keep all your options open is do as well as you can at every step of the game.

 

[SomeDoc]

I'm a third year, so I have yet to go through the match, but...basically everyone you will ask this question to will you give you a different answer. I have heard people flat out state that MS1&2 grades don't matter, only clinical grades do, while others say that clinical grades don't matter at all, it is only board scores that count, etc...

IMO, the bottom line is this: Do the best you can.

Everything in med school is cumulative and builds upon what came before, so the best prep for step 1 is to do well in MS1&2. Entering MS3 with a solid foundation will help set you up to do well in the clinical years. Doing well in MS3& 4 means you'll be a better intern, and so on.

From talking to residents, my perception is that different programs may have a slightly different formula for what they are looking for in the "ideal" candidate. The best way to keep all your options open is do as well as you can at every step of the game.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[GreenShirt]

Class rank is based on grades, so I am unclear on what you mean by it being more on rank than grades....rank comes from grades. I am sure everything one does can help (grades, boards, letters, etc) as far as residency.

Yes they do, but from an RD's point of view if you hand him a transcript full of B's he may think "wow this student is mediocre". However if you hand him the same student's class rank and it turns out the student was in the top 10% of his class b/c not many people get A's at that school then the RD's going to think "wow this student is outstanding". In other words, the other grades are somewhat arbitrary considering a lot of schools are P/F anyway. But, yes, I do agree with you in the fact that you have to study hard to get the class rank.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Yes they do, but from an RD's point of view if you hand him a transcript full of B's he may think "wow this student is mediocre". However if you hand him the same student's class rank and it turns out the student was in the top 10% of his class b/c not many people get A's at that school then the RD's going to think "wow this student is outstanding". In other words, the other grades are somewhat arbitrary considering a lot of schools are P/F anyway. But, yes, I do agree with you in the fact that you have to study hard to get the class rank.

Very few schools are strictly Pass/Fail, most of the ones that claim to be are: Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail....which amounts to A/B/C/F anyway. Obviously there are variations on that theme, but it is absolutely accurate to say that the vast majority of schools use grades, the vast majority use grades to determine class rank and AOA status, and that your class rank and AOA status are definitely significant considerations in residency selection.

I agree with whoever said to do your absolute best at each step. Let life's little ups and downs fall where they may, take setbacks in stride, and excel in everything you can excel in. There are enough setbacks and challenges without adding in your own laziness. You don't want to be working on your ERAS application looking back thinking..."****, I wish I'd set my goals higher than 'just pass'..." I mean if passing is the best/most you're able/willing to do, then fine, let the chips fall where they may. But if you're just conceding that ground this early in the game, writing off grades as "not important", you're not only putting yourself behind the 8-ball, you're wrong.