Shrinky

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Not that it matters, but your rant might sound a bit more authoritative if you had correct terms. It's a transitional year, not a "traditional" year.
 

DrBowtie

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Shrinky said:
Not that it matters, but your rant might sound a bit more authoritative if you had correct terms. It's a transitional year, not a "traditional" year.
For DO's they have Traditional Rotating Internship.
 
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Shrinky

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BrettBatchelor said:
For DO's they have Traditional Rotating Internship.
You know, after I posted, I realized you were DO. I've been exposed as a fraud once again!
 

r4d4

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I would just like to let people know about a program. It is St. Joseph's Mercy of Macomb in Clinton Twp. MI. This program has IM, OB, ER, and traditional spot. There are approximately 35 residents overall and the program is only about 4 years old. The major problem here is with the intern year and I would CAUTION anyone interested in the Traditional year. They have fired MANY residents in the last 4 years. ... with the fact that during your interview the DME tells you one thing about the hours, call, and your responsiblities than changes them at orientation...

Just a heads up. Dont make my mistake

Heard about a remarkably similar experience at St. Joseph's Mercy Ann Arbor. Part of the same outfit. Saw it happen to a number of people. PD lied about work week, work hours, worked people 120 hours a week, 40 hours on call etc. Program fired 5 that I know about, three are out of medicine, altogether. Another 4 were directly threatened with termination, one went to Wisconsin. PD threatened to destroy the career of another one. Resident was a rad onc match, PD tried to fire him for saying bad things about the program to med students. Was the truth from where I sat. The whole thing ended up a big mess and he ended up losing his rad onc spot. Big stink, heard all kinds of rumors that the ACGME was looking into it. Another canned for "unprofessional conduct" was a bud, ended up going to another specialty in another state. Another med school friend went to another of their hospitals in Grand Rapids, and told me that their program directors go to a seminar on how to "punish" residents. I believe it.

This is a pattern with hospitals run by Trinity Health Michigan! Beware and heed the above advice. Also, be very careful, they have lied to credentialing agencies, made up probations that were never documented, false accusations of misconduct and reported them to licensing boards after you leave the program if you dare say anything bad about them.


This group is a definite stay away from group. I thought it was just a single hospital, but, there does appear to be a pattern.
 

LiveWireSucks

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r4d4 said:
Heard about a remarkably similar experience at St. Joseph's Mercy Ann Arbor. Part of the same outfit. Saw it happen to a number of people. PD lied about work week, work hours, worked people 120 hours a week, 40 hours on call etc. Program fired 5 that I know about, three are out of medicine, altogether. Another 4 were directly threatened with termination, one went to Wisconsin. PD threatened to destroy the career of another one. Resident was a rad onc match, PD tried to fire him for saying bad things about the program to med students. Was the truth from where I sat. The whole thing ended up a big mess and he ended up losing his rad onc spot. Big stink, heard all kinds of rumors that the ACGME was looking into it. Another canned for "unprofessional conduct" was a bud, ended up going to another specialty in another state. Another med school friend went to another of their hospitals in Grand Rapids, and told me that their program directors go to a seminar on how to "punish" residents. I believe it.

This is a pattern with hospitals run by Trinity Health Michigan! Beware and heed the above advice. Also, be very careful, they have lied to credentialing agencies, made up probations that were never documented, false accusations of misconduct and reported them to licensing boards after you leave the program if you dare say anything bad about them.


This group is a definite stay away from group. I thought it was just a single hospital, but, there does appear to be a pattern.

**** 'em! Let all the DOs and FMGs go to these programs and hope only the hearty survive!
 

mosche

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LiveWireSucks said:
**** 'em! Let all the DOs and FMGs go to these programs and hope only the hearty survive!
I'm an MD gonna-be, and I find this offensive. I'm sure that you don't care, but you need to learn some manners. From what I've seen in your other posts, it's a good thing that you are doing anasthesia -- NO OFFENSE TO OTHERS IN THE FIELD. It's just that I don't think that you would survive in a specialty where the patients were awake.
 

Poety

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mosche said:
I'm an MD gonna-be, and I find this offensive. I'm sure that you don't care, but you need to learn some manners. From what I've seen in your other posts, it's a good thing that you are doing anasthesia -- NO OFFENSE TO OTHERS IN THE FIELD. It's just that I don't think that you would survive in a specialty where the patients were awake.

:eek: :eek: :wow: :wow:
 

SergeGainsbourg

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r4d4 said:
PD threatened to destroy the career of another one. Resident was a rad onc match, PD tried to fire him for saying bad things about the program to med students.
The take home message here is NEVER to tell "the truth" about your program to medstudents. Seriously, they don't believe it for a start, and they're sure to blab it around. Giving the lowdown to random medstudents helps no one and is sure to hurt you.

The take home message for medstudents is to not believe the crap that residents tell you about their program. (except maybe on an anonymous internet site ;) )
 

pgyslavery

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doresident said:
I would just like to let people know about a program. It is St. Joseph's Mercy of Macomb in Clinton Twp. MI. This program has IM, OB, ER, and traditional spot. There are approximately 35 residents overall and the program is only about 4 years old. The major problem here is with the intern year and I would CAUTION anyone interested in the Traditional year. They have fired MANY residents in the last 4 years. I have heard and personally know one of them(this year) and the others were fired or forced to resign before I started. We have all been threatened this year multiple times. These threats include being fired if we are not where we are suppose to be(understandable, but the manner with which they talk to us is disgusting). Threatened if we miss morning lecture with more weekend call. Told by the DME that he will "not help us out over the next nine months because we did not volunteer on a saturday and $20 to go to a heart walk sponsored by the hospital". This is no way how a medical education dept should act. You may say that these threats are ligit however no onoe is doing any of this stuff to my knowledge and I am certainly not and do deserve to be threatened once a month. No one is missing call. The DME thinks because there are only 3-4interns at morning lecture that everyone is skipping but the fact is 3-4 people are on ER and have night, evening shifts, or off. 1-2 people on anesthesia they dont go b/c all the procedures are in the am, 1-2 people out rotations, 1-2 people on surgery and may have cases leaves you with 3-4interns to go to lecture.

Add that crap that you have to deal with with the fact that during your interview the DME tells you one thing about the hours, call, and your responsiblities than changes them at orientation is enough to piss you off. He changes call schedules and makes manditory meetings days in advance so that any plans you might have are f___ked.(this is alittle better now b/c we are making the call schedule now) But since we are on the topic of call lets hit this now. Call is 24 on weekends and a months of nights during the year. Duties you are the only one on mind you no residents or other interns here. Admit all ICU pts and cover 48 bed ICU and Stepdown minus the SICU pts. Admits for one of the hospitalist group. Cover floor call for all 400 plus beds. Tell me this is not nuts! ICU has a couple of intensivist that are home call. So you call these guy who will NOT COME IN NO MATTER WHAT ie pt come in though ER with PE you admit to ICU b/c of saddle PE and is stable at admission and crashes wont come in and wont give you a verbal order for tPA(lovely, many other examples here of this crap).

anyway I could keep going my point is the DME likes to fire people. May be warrented but it has been about 15% of the people they took over last 4years. Likes to threaten interns/residents. Lies during interview and over all is a bad car salesman. I would use extreme caution if you choose to come here and you should tell you classmates. Also I know that out of the current interns(14) 5 are traditional so will be leaving, 5 ER, 2OB, 2IM of these at least one is not coming back to be CA2 he is going to Allopathic program.

Just a heads up. Dont make my mistake
I am at the same program as doresident and I cannot tell you how true it is..... We have all been threatened with our jobs and the DME has slim to no leadership skills. He will sell you on an idea during the interview.....basically tell you whatever you want to hear to get you to sign that contract. will bring you in, change everything that you thought you were getting yourself into, then expect you to play ball...... if you do not play ball he will fire you to make an example out of you. I also personally know the rad onc resident who was at st. joe's ann arbor. He did get a rad onc spot after having to sit out for one to two years while he pursued litigation against st. joe's and trinity health. Basically, the hospital and DME refused to certify that he completed a transitional year at the hospital and his rad onc spot could not accept him into the residency secondary to that. I have been personally threatened with the same type of thing from the DME here at Macomb. I thought about the possibility that the situation could have been the same here before signing the contract but I figured different programs = different mentalities. But unfortunately this is not the case. I would avoid ANY programs/residencies offered through Trinity Health and St. Joseph's Hospital. It is romper room time here and far to great a threat to your career. The DME i found has the nickname of being a "Used car salesman".... BUYER BEWARE!
 

Poety

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I'm just wondering if you guys spoke with residents prior to signing... did the residents sell this program too?
 

lsres

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I was in a similar situation but not as bad. Shortly after talking about working more than the allowed hours toward the end of my first month I was told my work was not up to standard and put on probation. Thirty days later the PD director gave me a choice of either resigning or being terminated. I admit that I had weak areas of knowledge but feel I was doing as well as the other residents and working hard to correct any deficiencies. I feel that I was treated unfairly and the program went out of its way to make me look bad.

My question is this. What did the people who were fired in the other programs do? I have applied through ERAS for next years match but have gotten no interviews. What should I say to other programs when applying to them?

I have not filed any suits against the program since I do not want to increase the chances of them blackballing me. I have not reapplied to any FP positions again since the PD said that he felt it was not the right specialty for me (implied he would blackball any apps to FP programs) and that I was suited more for a different kind of specialty. I have worked hard to get to this point so that I can help patients and find this rather discouraging but am not giving up.
 

pgyslavery

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as it was only a new program.....there were only pgy1's at the time to talk to. which at the time they were only half way through their year. i wish they had told me to avoid the program like the plague but they did not. as for the isres post.....all i have to say is that if you feel that you were let go unfairly then only you know what you should do. but if you ask me then i say you've worked to hard to let your career be dictated by anyone but yourself.
 
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