Graduating in 2 months in Applied Math, Low GPA - Need Guidance

[ExistenceIsTorment]

Hello everyone, I'm a graduating senior at UC Berkeley with a degree in Applied Math. I pursued a career in Software Engineering, buying into the Silicon Valley hype, but I have hated every second of my coursework here. I actually wanted to switch to a premed track after my first semester, but my crippling fear of rejection from med school kept me from it, and I felt obligated to become a SWE (Software Engineer) "for the moneys." So I kept trying to ignore my desire to become a surgeon, year after year, and now that I'm graduating and evaluating SWE offers from companies, I DO NOT want to work in this area. It seriously makes me feel claustrophobic and "dry" (passionless). I don't know why it took me 4 and a half years to get over my fear of the premed process, but now, I figure "**** it" and just take a 2-3 year detour and get my **** in order. I want to become a surgeon. I'm not in it for the money. Hell, even if surgeons were paid significantly less than Silicon Valley senior SWE's, I'd still choose surgeon over SWE 10/10 times.

Issue is, my GPA is horrible. I always brushed aside any idea of med school/grad school out of fear/low self-confidence, so I had a "Cs get degrees" attitude throughout school and just gunned for a job. Now it's coming to bite me in the ass. I'm not making excuses for it; at the end of the day, it was my laziness. My transcript is littered with C's, low B's, P's, 2 NP's, and a F.

Here are at-a-glance stats:

- 2.7 GPA listed on transcript, but is 2.5 after counting the F. ~ 105ish semester units. A third of these units were taken P/NP.
- I did take 2 classes at a CC for GE requirements. Received an A and a B, non-science.
- All of my coursework are in Math/Stats/Computer Science. I have not yet taken any Bio/Chem/Physics courses. My last chem/bio classes were in high school.
- All of my EC's are/were geared towards internships, programming side projects, web applications, etc., so they'd be pretty useless in MD/DO process. I could make a web application geared towards helping a local clinic or something if that'd be helpful.
- No experience with MCATs.
- No research experience, or close-enough relationship with profs for LoR.

I have to respond to a job offer by this coming Monday, and I'm 80% leaning towards not accepting it so I can get started on this path.

What are some advices you can give me? If I can get 3.9+ between 60-80 units post-bacc, and score highly on MCAT, will I be able to get into some MD program? I don't care about school rankings, as long as it's quality education. What about DO? How do I get started with extra curriculars with no previous experience? Thank you for your advice.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Red_Panda]

What makes you think you can come in and rock a 3.9 GPA and kill the MCAT when your past history doesn't demonstrate the ability? Have you found the error in how you study and rectified it? I've found throughout my life that people don't just flip a switch and become rockstar students. Assuming you can make the switch then you would definitely be able to gain a medical school acceptance as long as you check all the boxes. Have you shadowed a doctor? Worked at a hospital? Volunteered with an underserved population? How do you know you want to be a surgeon? You're looking at a long path to become a doctor and will need some at a minimum of like 2-3 years to get all your ducks in a row to apply. You would have a lot better luck at DO schools because they reward reinvention. You're going to need a more compelling reason for switching careers other than "I just want to be surgeon". I would start by shadowing a surgeon and other specialties before you make the switch. I would just take the job offer you have and try shadowing a little in your free time. Then once you've distanced yourself from your past school performance after a few years reevaluate and decide if you still want to make this journey.

 

[chemdoctor]

@Red_Panda OP indicated it was through laziness and effort. Who knows. Maybe OP scan do really well.

Anyways, OP, this IS going to be a long road. You may want to be more open to a different type of physician than being a surgeon and it’s too early to start thinking About specialties anyway.

So, find Goro’s Guide for premeds that need reinvention. This is going to take 2-3 years before you can have a decent application. You will need to enroll in a post bac program, formal or informal and maybe even an SMP.

I would start by taking maybe one-three easy science courses. Assuming since you haven’t taken science courses in so long (bio, chem, physics), it may take some getting used to what with the study habits and practice.

 

[ExistenceIsTorment]

What makes you think you can come in and rock a 3.9 GPA and kill the MCAT when your past history doesn't demonstrate the ability? Have you found the error in how you study and rectified it? I've found throughout my life that people don't just flip a switch and become rockstar students. Assuming you can make the switch then you would definitely be able to gain a medical school acceptance as long as you check all the boxes. Have you shadowed a doctor? Worked at a hospital? Volunteered with an underserved population? How do you know you want to be a surgeon? You're looking at a long path to become a doctor and will need some at a minimum of like 2-3 years to get all your ducks in a row to apply. You would have a lot better luck at DO schools because they reward reinvention. You're going to need a more compelling reason for switching careers other than "I just want to be surgeon". I would start by shadowing a surgeon and other specialties before you make the switch. I would just take the job offer you have and try shadowing a little in your free time. Then once you've distanced yourself from your past school performance after a few years reevaluate and decide if you still want to make this journey.

Yeah, I've shadowed a general surgeon during high school for about ~8 months when I was a lot more inclined to go for a premed education. It's something that I've always had a keen interest for the past ~5 years. I always tried to ignore it during college, "it's too late to switch to premed, just go work in Silicon Valley." A big part of that was fear, like I explained. Even if med school wasn't a possiblity, I still wouldn't take the SWE job, just because I HATE the line of work. I'm not saying that out of arrogance, it seriously makes me feel claustrophobic and sad. I honestly don't know why.

I'm not assuming I'm going to get 3.9+ and killer MCATs. And no, I don't think people can change that drastically overnight. I was asking IF I were to bust ass and make it happen, THEN would it be a possibility? But it's a bit reassuring to hear the possibility is there.

I could go into all the reasons why I decided to go into SWE my first sem of college, but at the end of the day, my grades are my own. I own up to that. I messed up. I'm more than willing to put in 2-3 years and go into reasonable debt to finish up a post bacc to make myself much more competitive.

Regarding my post bacc, would it be reasonable to do about 24 units in a CC, retaking some calc classes and taking 2 semesters of English, and then do the rest of the natural science prereqs + 2-3 biology upper divs at a 4-year university? Doing so would save about $10,000. I don't think I can rely on getting into a 2nd bach program simply due to the lack of programs in my area (SoCal), and the one there is (CSU Long Beach) has a very selective process, so I'd need to rely on a DIY post-bacc. Any advice on how to organize my courseload between CC and 4-year would be extremely helpful for financial reasons.

Also, how do I go about shadowing a doctor now? When I was in HS, it was through a family connection, but that connection has long been gone. Do I just go "door-to-door" and ask/email if there are any shadowing opportunities? Is it a similar process for volunteer work? Thank you for your replies.

 

[chemdoctor]

@Goro If I’m not mistaken, OP hasnto be open to DO sxhools now. Also, the P/F grades don’t go towards GPA do they?

 

[DokterMom]

Direct answer -- Is it possible? Yes.

Now on to the question you didn't ask but should -- Why on earth did you just spend four years of your life half-assedly pursuing a degree to work in a field you hate and find soul-crushing? Why did you choose to plod along toward such an unappealing (to you) future instead of venturing off into other avenues to see what else is out there? What other possibilities actually are out there that you could participate in and explore while getting your ducks in a row for a possible future medical career?

What I'm saying is that your life's a mess of your own making, and that spending some time to clean up that mess -- NOT just head off in another direction -- will be time well spent. A year or two of therapy will be the best investment you can make. During that period, don't postpone adulthood by prolonging the college-student life. But rather, get out there and try your hand at real life -- real job, rent, car notes, girlfriends, career progress.

Not only will that year help you personally, it will also help convince future Ad Com members that the mess you made of your undergrad years is safely behind you.

 

[Gator2010]

This is going to be a long road. I also recommend Goro's guide for reinvention.

Have you thought about accepting the job offer, working and getting some real world life experience and volunteer/shadow during this process just to make sure your heart really is in medicine? I know it sets you back, but this way you can ensure that you want to go down this long road. I also was a part of an amazing clinical volunteering program that is open to you in SoCal. I volunteered as a Cope Health Scholar at St. Mary's Medical Center in Long Beach and it was absolutely incredible. Hands on patient interaction, assisting nurses and physicians every day you volunteer, and upon graduation you get a certificate from UCLA. Feel free to message me if you want to talk more. I was in your shoes 8 years ago as a fresh college grad, low GPA, going into a job I didn't necessarily love, but I wouldn't change my path to medicine for anything.

 

[deleted938090]

- 2.7 GPA listed on transcript, but is 2.5 after counting the F. ~ 105ish semester units. A third of these units were taken P/NP.
- I did take 2 classes at a CC for GE requirements. Received an A and a B, non-science.
- All of my coursework are in Math/Stats/Computer Science. I have not yet taken any Bio/Chem/Physics courses. My last chem/bio classes were in high school.
- All of my EC's are/were geared towards internships, programming side projects, web applications, etc., so they'd be pretty useless in MD/DO process. I could make a web application geared towards helping a local clinic or something if that'd be helpful.
- No experience with MCATs.
- No research experience, or close-enough relationship with profs for LoR.

I have to respond to a job offer by this coming Monday, and I'm 80% leaning towards not accepting it so I can get started on this path.

What are some advices you can give me? If I can get 3.9+ between 60-80 units post-bacc, and score highly on MCAT, will I be able to get into some MD program? I don't care about school rankings, as long as it's quality education. What about DO? How do I get started with extra curriculars with no previous experience? Thank you for your advice.

What I would do is accept the job offer because so far, nothing is certain except for the job offer. While working the job, find time to shadow doctors, learn more about medicine, investigate the MCAT, and research the process of applying to medical school. Once you're resolute and realize medicine is exactly the field you wanted to enter, then work towards completing requirements and preparing for the MCAT. It's pointless to discuss what you should have done, etc so I would recommend to not let your past hold you back.

2.7 GPA: These classes are engineering classes so they do not count for BCPM. The mathematics you have taken definitely do count for BCPM. The AAMC has an emphasis on BCPM and cumulative GPA, so your engineering classes won't affect you that much. Since you're an applied math major from Berkeley, I assume you have more than enough foundation of mathematics for premeds. You only need up to maybe multivariable calculus (and many med students don't even have that) and I assume you have diffeq, linalg, etc. You need to take something like 2 semesters organic chem, biochem, physics 1/2, chem and bio lab, and some semesters of biology. You could list your internships, side projects, etc in your AAMC and go search for a computational biology or neuroscience laboratory to do research in. I understand that although 2.7 GPA seems very low, a software engineering major (with offers from Silicon valley) shows that you are capable of doing well on the premed curriculum and the MCAT. It occurs to me that grade deflation is the result of CS majors valuing the ability to do stuff over rote memorization and small details. If you're able learn in an armchair-intellectual kind of style, as in bio/chem, then you'll be fine. A lot of the difficulty of a premed is overhyped in my opinion.

What are some advices you can give me? If I can get 3.9+ between 60-80 units post-bacc, and score highly on MCAT, will I be able to get into some MD program? I don't care about school rankings, as long as it's quality education. What about DO? How do I get started with extra curriculars with no previous experience? Thank you for your advice.

Go calculate the BCPM GPA and your cumulative gpa after certain amount of post-bacc credit. How much bio/chem experience do you retain from HS? I found AP biology and AP chemistry to be about the level of non-organic non-biochem sections on the MCAT. If you learn your physics and general chemistry well, then you can crush the C/P section. B/B section requires a good understanding of biochemistry, and the P/S section is easily studyable with KA and some other resources. Extracurriculars, just go volunteer at something meaningful to you. Go work in a laboratory for research. Gain clinical experience by emailing doctors in your area and asking if you could shadow. I'm sure many computational biology laboratories would be interested in a software-engineering level research assistant.

Once you calculate your GPA/MCAT, buy MSAR and look at which schools will fall into the median of the MCAT and GPA. A high MCAT CAN compensate for a lower GPA: I know someone with a 3.3 and 518 who got offers at good MD schools. For the best shot at medical school right now, aim for a 520+ and 4.0 postbacc, etc you get the point. But aim higher than you normally want because having imbalanced mcat/gpa will be difficult to get in somewhere. I can't speak about DO schools so I don't know. Also this is definitely possible to achieve in 1.5 years because I wasn't premed until sophomore year without taking a year off. If you're interested in MD/PhD a la computational research, there's a lot of spots for that too.

Best of luck and sorry to hear CS isn't what you want to do. A lot of tech schools has the culture where the de facto job is finance/CS and I understand that these paths provide a job that can sustain a decent lifestyle.

 

[Goro]

Hello everyone, I'm a graduating senior at UC Berkeley with a degree in Applied Math. I pursued a career in Software Engineering, buying into the Silicon Valley hype, but I have hated every second of my coursework here. I actually wanted to switch to a premed track after my first semester, but my crippling fear of rejection from med school kept me from it, and I felt obligated to become a SWE (Software Engineer) "for the moneys." So I kept trying to ignore my desire to become a surgeon, year after year, and now that I'm graduating and evaluating SWE offers from companies, I DO NOT want to work in this area. It seriously makes me feel claustrophobic and "dry" (passionless). I don't know why it took me 4 and a half years to get over my fear of the premed process, but now, I figure "**** it" and just take a 2-3 year detour and get my **** in order. I want to become a surgeon. I'm not in it for the money. Hell, even if surgeons were paid significantly less than Silicon Valley senior SWE's, I'd still choose surgeon over SWE 10/10 times.

Issue is, my GPA is horrible. I always brushed aside any idea of med school/grad school out of fear/low self-confidence, so I had a "Cs get degrees" attitude throughout school and just gunned for a job. Now it's coming to bite me in the ass. I'm not making excuses for it; at the end of the day, it was my laziness. My transcript is littered with C's, low B's, P's, 2 NP's, and a F.

Here are at-a-glance stats:

- 2.7 GPA listed on transcript, but is 2.5 after counting the F. ~ 105ish semester units. A third of these units were taken P/NP.
- I did take 2 classes at a CC for GE requirements. Received an A and a B, non-science.
- All of my coursework are in Math/Stats/Computer Science. I have not yet taken any Bio/Chem/Physics courses. My last chem/bio classes were in high school.
- All of my EC's are/were geared towards internships, programming side projects, web applications, etc., so they'd be pretty useless in MD/DO process. I could make a web application geared towards helping a local clinic or something if that'd be helpful.
- No experience with MCATs.
- No research experience, or close-enough relationship with profs for LoR.

I have to respond to a job offer by this coming Monday, and I'm 80% leaning towards not accepting it so I can get started on this path.

What are some advices you can give me? If I can get 3.9+ between 60-80 units post-bacc, and score highly on MCAT, will I be able to get into some MD program? I don't care about school rankings, as long as it's quality education. What about DO? How do I get started with extra curriculars with no previous experience? Thank you for your advice.

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[Goro]

OP, I am also getting a whiff of mental health issues that concern me. Not pursuing a desired career because of " my crippling fear of rejection from med school kept me from it, " makes me worried.

You have to accept that rejections are part of this process, and 60% of applicants do NOT get accepted.