Graduating Medical Student - Ribbon Question

[pawprint]

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Hey everyone,

I am just about to graduate med school. Quick question regarding which ribbons I am authorized to wear upon reporting to my internship...I understand I am authorized to wear the National Defense service ribbon upon reporting to my internship, but what about the Global War on Terrorism Service Ribbon? Am I supposed to wear that one too, or is there a certain time frame that I am supposed to start wearing it after? From what I was able to read, it sounds like there is a 30 consecutive day minimum before I am supposed to wear it, however there is also information online that says it is usually awarded at the same time as the National Defense Service Ribbon.

Just want to make sure I am wearing the right stuff at the right time! Thanks!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hey everyone,

I am just about to graduate med school. Quick question regarding which ribbons I am authorized to wear upon reporting to my internship...I understand I am authorized to wear the National Defense service ribbon upon reporting to my internship, but what about the Global War on Terrorism Service Ribbon? Am I supposed to wear that one too, or is there a certain time frame that I am supposed to start wearing it after? From what I was able to read, it sounds like there is a 30 consecutive day minimum before I am supposed to wear it, however there is also information online that says it is usually awarded at the same time as the National Defense Service Ribbon.

Just want to make sure I am wearing the right stuff at the right time! Thanks!

You get your GWOT service ribbon after you’ve been stationed at your first permanent command for 30 days. Training commands don’t count.

(2)Navy personnel in initial accession training, to include follow-on career specific training, do not qualify for the GWOTSM under this authorization. Eligibility begins once assigned to the first permanent duty station after completion of initial and follow-on training.

https://awards.navy.mil/awards/webapp01.nsf/(vwAwardsDisp)/AW10052085N47U?OpenDocument

That’s for the Army too, but I don’t a link handy.

 

[pawprint]

You get your GWOT service ribbon after you’ve been stationed at your first permanent command for 30 days. Training commands don’t count.



https://awards.navy.mil/awards/webapp01.nsf/(vwAwardsDisp)/AW10052085N47U?OpenDocument

That’s for the Army too, but I don’t a link handy.

Perfect thank you! So it looks like it is not authorized for wear until after residency, or if I do a GMO/flight/dive, then 30 days after reporting to that duty station.

 

[backrow]

Perfect thank you! So it looks like it is not authorized for wear until after residency, or if I do a GMO/flight/dive, then 30 days after reporting to that duty station.

For Navy you are going to get a different interpretation of the GWOTSM guidance based on which hospital you report to. Latest I heard was NMCSD interprets it as above, NMCP says interns/residents are eligible, and not sure about Bethesda (they do things their own way in the NCR 🙂 ) . When asked nobody has been able to give concrete guidance on which is the correct reading.

My opinion is that the instruction is meant to cover basic training and A schools/C schools, initial flight training, etc and not environments where you are providing a tangible benefit to the military. For medical: ODS = basic training, medical school = a school. Internship/residency although still training you are “producing” for the Navy, therefore should be eligible. Not everyone thinks the same though.


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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

My opinion is that the instruction is meant to cover basic training and A schools/C schools, initial flight training, etc and not environments where you are providing a tangible benefit to the military. For medical: ODS = basic training, medical school = a school. Internship/residency although still training you are “producing” for the Navy, therefore should be eligible. Not everyone thinks the same though.

If they let their interns and residents wear them, they better be putting it into nsips. Either way they are incorrect. All follow-on training is ineligible. You must be at your first ultimate duty station. And if you’re going to compare it to A/C school (which is irrelevant really), then ODS is like boot camp, med school is like A school, and internship/residency is like C school.

 

[psychbender]

I trained at Bethesda. Army got to wear ASR, NDR, GWOT after breathing Army air for thirty days. I believe all of the Navy I saw there wore their equivalent. If that doesn't adhere to Matthew9Thirtyfive's strict interpretation, it doesn't matter. As they used to say in the Army, if you are the only one doing it the 'right' way, then you're doing it the wrong way.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I trained at Bethesda. Army got to wear ASR, NDR, GWOT after breathing Army air for thirty days. I believe all of the Navy I saw there wore their equivalent. If that doesn't adhere to Matthew9Thirtyfive's strict interpretation, it doesn't matter. As they used to say in the Army, if you are the only one doing it the 'right' way, then you're doing it the wrong way.

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I agree with you, but it’s not my interpretation. It’s literally the criteria in the instruction lol.

 

[psychbender]

I agree with you, but it’s not my interpretation. It’s literally the criteria in the instruction lol.

If no one actually uses the literal instruction, then it's wrong and needs to be changed. I had this same argument with the admin and S3 folk at my last hospital. We were the only hospital that was accounting for our OR utilization "correctly." According to the rules, hospitals could only count time spent in the main OR. Any time in things like the cystoscopy suite, oral surgery operating rooms, IR, endoscopy suite, etc were not to be counted, even if they had the same surgeon, OR nurse, tech, and anesthesiologist or CRNA that they would normally have it the case were performed within the walls of the main OR. As a result, our utilization looked terrible, and we were not assigned nurses and techs that we needed. Every single other place reported those cases as regular utilization, and were staffed accordingly, but our S3 guy refused to do it, because those were the rules. He wouldn't even consider my compromise workaround of assigning those cases in the system to a room number that is not in use, but performing the cases where they actually need to be performed. As a result, we struggled to keep the ORs open, because we didn't have enough people to staff them, and surgeons had to refer out more cases to the civilian hospitals, or try to stack them vertically, and just keep the active duty staff late every day. Work hard, not smart; it's the Army way!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If no one actually uses the literal instruction, then it's wrong and needs to be changed. I had this same argument with the admin and S3 folk at my last hospital. We were the only hospital that was accounting for our OR utilization "correctly." According to the rules, hospitals could only count time spent in the main OR. Any time in things like the cystoscopy suite, oral surgery operating rooms, IR, endoscopy suite, etc were not to be counted, even if they had the same surgeon, OR nurse, tech, and anesthesiologist or CRNA that they would normally have it the case were performed within the walls of the main OR. As a result, our utilization looked terrible, and we were not assigned nurses and techs that we needed. Every single other place reported those cases as regular utilization, and were staffed accordingly, but our S3 guy refused to do it, because those were the rules. He wouldn't even consider my compromise workaround of assigning those cases in the system to a room number that is not in use, but performing the cases where they actually need to be performed. As a result, we struggled to keep the ORs open, because we didn't have enough people to staff them, and surgeons had to refer out more cases to the civilian hospitals, or try to stack them vertically, and just keep the active duty staff late every day. Work hard, not smart; it's the Army way!

Yeah I totally agree with you. But I mean, this is a little different. If a command is awarding their Sailors a ribbon without meeting the criteria, the criteria doesn’t need to change, the command does.

That said, if you get to residency and everyone is told to wear it, just ****ing wear it. But make sure they put it into nsips so that you don’t go to your next command and get asked if you’re supposed to be wearing ribbons that aren’t in your record. That exact thing happened to me, except with awards and warfare devices that I’ve actually earned. Thanks admin.

 

[pgg]

If no one actually uses the literal instruction, then it's wrong and needs to be changed. I had this same argument with the admin and S3 folk at my last hospital. We were the only hospital that was accounting for our OR utilization "correctly." According to the rules, hospitals could only count time spent in the main OR. Any time in things like the cystoscopy suite, oral surgery operating rooms, IR, endoscopy suite, etc were not to be counted, even if they had the same surgeon, OR nurse, tech, and anesthesiologist or CRNA that they would normally have it the case were performed within the walls of the main OR. As a result, our utilization looked terrible, and we were not assigned nurses and techs that we needed. Every single other place reported those cases as regular utilization, and were staffed accordingly, but our S3 guy refused to do it, because those were the rules. He wouldn't even consider my compromise workaround of assigning those cases in the system to a room number that is not in use, but performing the cases where they actually need to be performed. As a result, we struggled to keep the ORs open, because we didn't have enough people to staff them, and surgeons had to refer out more cases to the civilian hospitals, or try to stack them vertically, and just keep the active duty staff late every day. Work hard, not smart; it's the Army way!

At one of my prior commands, we started booking things like wisdom teeth and vasectomies in the main OR to game that system.

 

[TheEarDoc]

Yeah I totally agree with you. But I mean, this is a little different. If a command is awarding their Sailors a ribbon without meeting the criteria, the criteria doesn’t need to change, the command does.

That said, if you get to residency and everyone is told to wear it, just ****ing wear it. But make sure they put it into nsips so that you don’t go to your next command and get asked if you’re supposed to be wearing ribbons that aren’t in your record. That exact thing happened to me, except with awards and warfare devices that I’ve actually earned. Thanks admin.

Wow I knew it was easy to get the NSDM and GWOT medals, but I didn't realize it was this easy. I figured it would be somewhat like a deployment requirement of being 180 days or more to be considered a veteran per VA rules. Gotta love the "participation awards"

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Wow I knew it was easy to get the NSDM and GWOT medals, but I didn't realize it was this easy. I figured it would be somewhat like a deployment requirement of being 180 days or more to be considered a veteran per VA rules. Gotta love the "participation awards"

The NDSM you get while you're at boot camp lol. The GWOTSM and GWOTEM have different criteria. The GWOTSM is a gimme, but the GWOTEM requires a little more.

 

[TheEarDoc]

The NDSM you get while you're at boot camp lol. The GWOTSM and GWOTEM have different criteria. The GWOTSM is a gimme, but the GWOTEM requires a little more.

wow I didn't realize you got the NDSM after BCT! I thought it would require like a year of military service or at least 180 days of service.

So do reservists who do the BOLC short course qualify for the NDSM since it's 4 weeks of active duty training?

I know the expedition medal requires actual deployment in support of the GWOT, but wow. Cracks me up because in my state I see a ton of vets driving around with GWOTSM license plates and I just chuckle.

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah, i always viewed it as “am I

wow I didn't realize you got the NDSM after BCT! I thought it would require like a year of military service or at least 180 days of service.

So do reservists who do the BOLC short course qualify for the NDSM since it's 4 weeks of active duty training?

I know the expedition medal requires actual deployment in support of the GWOT, but wow. Cracks me up because in my state I see a ton of vets driving around with GWOTSM license plates and I just chuckle.

yes to reserve bolc