Army Graduating undergrad at crossroads

[esketeat]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently a graduating senior deciding between enlisting for 5 years, commissioning for 3 years, or going directly to medical school after 1-2 gap years. I will be graduating from a T20 undergrad with 3 majors and a first author publication, as well as a unique extracurricular. I believe my application is fairly strong and I would love the opportunity to see this hard work come to fruition and have the opportunity to attend a top medical school.

It's also been a long-term goal of mine to serve in the military, especially through the 18x program. I've physically pushed myself and stayed disciplined through this goal for the past three years, and I am confident that I fit the physical requirements to pass SFAS. I've met with a recruiter to discuss this extensively and the only step I have next is to sign.

However, I am worried about the professional and personal setbacks this will set me. I understand the risks that come with the job. I understand that I will be devoting my life to my career in the army and my personal life will no longer be a priority. However, I am in a relationship and my girlfriend will be going to med school this year and I want to see if anyone has overcome the challenges that came with this combo. I've scoured the internet and have come to an impasse, hence the crossroads.

Here are some of the pros and cons I've come up with. Please feel free to add or challenge any as you see fit. They are not in any particular order.
18x->med school:

Pros:​

GI/Post-9/11​

Unique life experience that I can take with me for the rest of my life​

Mastery of discipline and drive​

Opportunity to serve​

Cons:​

Lots of uncertainty (high risk of not passing the Q course, injury, death, etc.)​

5 years without much freedom​

5 years of missed attending salary​

OCS->commission->med school:

Pros:​

GI/Post-9/11​

Leadership skills​

Opportunity to serve​

Cons:​

3-4 years of missed attending salary​

Middle ground with not as unique of a life experience​

Big army​

undergrad->gap years->med school:

Pros:​

Potential to keep publishing​

Will be able to keep strengthening application​

Higher probability of staying with my significant other​

Cons:​

Medical school debt​

General dissatisfaction with taking the safe route​

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[orbitsurgMD]

What is your plan for "gap years?" How will you answer the interviewer who asks you why you felt the need for gap years when so many applicants are eager to get started with medical school. I don't know anything about the 18x program except for the apparent association with special forces. For most people in special forces, that is their career goal, not an interesting diversion on the way to something entirely different. Commissioning for line officer status is the same. I can't help but wonder when I read "general dissatisfaction with taking the safe route" whether you really want to go to medical school at all.

 

[esketeat]

What is your plan for "gap years?" How will you answer the interviewer who asks you why you felt the need for gap years when so many applicants are eager to get started with medical school. I don't know anything about the 18x program except for the apparent association with special forces. For most people in special forces, that is their career goal, not an interesting diversion on the way to something entirely different. Commissioning for line officer status is the same. I can't help but wonder when I read "general dissatisfaction with taking the safe route" whether you really want to go to medical school at all.

For my gap years I would spend it strengthening my application. I'd primarily focus on community service, as I have a project that I am working on that I believe can reach an even larger, underserved community in my area.

Medical school has been a dream of mine. But it's a long journey, and a terminal one at that. After residency I don't plan on doing anything else other than practicing medicine, so I'd like to try something different and get everything out of my system while I have the freedom to do so.

For the dissatisfaction, I just mean I'd always have a 'what if' if I just do what's best for my career and go straight to med school. Maybe it's ego, maybe it's lack of direction. However, one thing's for certain in my goals: I will attend and graduate medical school.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

How exactly will you strengthen your application? Do you plan on coursework? Community service is nice and all, but it isn't going to supplant strength of your academic record or of your testing scores. It's great that you did three majors and have an interesting extracurricular record to claim, but why do you believe additional time spent on community service will change your chances at admission. I am not sure I understood you when you wrote "it's a long journey and a terminal one at that." For most, it is the opening act.

 

[esketeat]

How exactly will you strengthen your application? Do you plan on coursework? Community service is nice and all, but it isn't going to supplant strength of your academic record or of your testing scores. It's great that you did three majors and have an interesting extracurricular record to claim, but why do you believe additional time spent on community service will change your chances at admission. I am not sure I understood you when you wrote "it's a long journey and a terminal one at that." For most, it is the opening act.

I mean for me, once I become a physician I don't have any other goals other than working as a doctor.

I won't need any additional coursework, so I'd just study for the MCAT and increase the hours in my application--clinical hours, volunteering, research.
The community service project is a project of mine I've had for about a year now. It's just something I care about and I think it represents who I am and my values a lot.

Thank you for your input, by the way.

 

[chssoccer7]

These are two pretty different paths. I tell anyone thinking about the military, if you can see yourself anywhere else, do that instead. The military, while rewarding, can also be a big pile of **** at times (depending on job, sometimes most of the time) and that can be very hard to bear if that's not exactly what you want to do with your life. I can tell you that with your girlfriend going to medical school and you going into the military, if you or her are not ready to only see each other 1-2 times a year and sporadically talk via text/facetime the rest, your relationship will likely fail. I saw many failed relationships just with one person doing the military, much less the other also doing something demanding as well.

As for the pros and cons, I think the GI Bill/Increased debt discussion is a wash. Yes, you'll get the GI Bill (which probably won't cover all of medical school, but it will help). You also are missing out on attending salary for 3-5 years which more than makes up for that difference in med school debt. Look up the military pay charts online. They are far, far lower than any physician makes, especially if you go the enlisted route.

As for anecdotal, I did 11 years in a fairly difficult job in the Navy. When people ask me what I would change about it, I tell them nothing. The only thing I would change would be to have been more of an adult at 18 and not have needed the military to straighten out my life. If you don't need the military for that, I don't think there's a lot you'll get out of it that you can't also get elsewhere in much better conditions.

If you really can't see yourself doing anything other than joining the military, I recommend the officer route. At least get paid better and treated better for the short time you're in.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

I will disagree about Special Forces being a career goal rather than an "interesting diversion". I have lots of friend in Special Operations (SEALS, SF, Raiders) and some end up making it a career and many others who did their time and got out (some becoming doctors).
A lot of this decision is based on your risk tolerance and how strongly you wish to serve. If you think that if you don't serve then years from now you'll always regret not trying, then you may consider it. The risks are high, though. The attrition rate for Special Operations is very high and it is statistically very likely you'll DOR (Drop on request) and end up serving the needs of the Army (i.e. some boring job in a place you may not want to be). EVERYONE who joins to go spec ops say they'll never quit. Few make it through. If you DO end up making it through all the hoops the training, work-ups, and deployments will take you away a lot from your girlfriend. If she's really supportive, your relationship could survive (she'll be pretty busy as well) but it will be difficult. The officer route is a little safer route with better quality of life and treated more like an adult, but harder to get into the "cool" stuff (usually much higher standards). Overall, I wouldn't give up my military experience for anything and think it CAN offer a lot of experiences you can get no where else but you have to be both good and lucky.

 

[armytrainingsir]

All the docs I’ve known that had a high speed past and later became doctors all had Forest Gump careers that kinda just worked out. It wasn’t some carefully mapped out career path.

What you want is possible, but not all that probable. Too many failure points before the goal is reached. Watch “A Bridge Too Far” and you might understand what I’m saying.

 

[xffan624]

I was an Army officer and then went to medical school after. Part of the reason was a weak application out of undergrad and some indecisiveness on a career path. I did environmental health in the Army so there was some thought I might just do that for a career either in or out of the military. Ultimately I decided to pursue medical school. I agree with going the officer route. if you do decide to go in. It's even possible you could end up in the Special Forces world as an officer (I don't know enough to make any guarantees about the likelihood of that). You seem like a motivated high achiever with a good head on your shoulders and I think that you might fit in the military environment which when done right, tends to rewards those folks. I don't regret my military time, but it's definitely a different Army than when I was in. We were fighting two wars. Now my old unit "deploys" to Korea. A year in Korea was my reward after spending 4 years in a undesirable area in the states and deploying to Iraq. Korea was a reward. I had a blast there.

 

[pgg]

Most of the pros you list for the military route are rather vague and cliche. That doesn't mean they aren't true, just that they seem to be over-associated with military service, and people who cite them often overlook the fact that the same pros apply to many, many other paths.

- Unique life experience that I can take with me for the rest of my life
- Mastery of discipline and drive
- Opportunity to serve
- Leadership skills

There are many ways to serve humanity and the nation, outside the military. Consider that the earlier you're a trained physician, the more you can contribute in significant and rare ways. Can you offer more as an E4 soldier doing E4 soldier stuff, vs a physician doing mission trips like Operation Smile or just working in an underserved part of our country? I don't mean to denigrate the E4's job in the slightest, but not everybody has the opportunity or ability to become a physician. If you can and want to do it, maybe that's a better way to serve.

As for the pro you list for gap years ("Will be able to keep strengthening application") I'm not really sure about that. Gap years can rehab a marginal application to some degree. But you said your application is already pretty strong. Extracurricular activities are not nearly as important or helpful as a lot of people think/wish they were - exceptions being really extraordinary things that demonstrate ability to focus and work for a long time toward a singular goal - think Olympic athletes or professional musicians, not guys who do karate in a strip mall twice per week or play bass for a bar band ... or who serve out a few years enlisted in the military. Those are neat things, but they're not extraordinary.


As for medicine being a terminal position - that's not really true. I don't find this to be well appreciated by a lot of pre-meds, who tend to view medical school as a finish line. Finishing medical school and residency makes you a safe and competent doctor in your specialty, but not necessarily a great one. The learning curve is steep when you finally reach independent practice. There is a lot to do still, a lot to learn. Efficiency and judgment are earned slowly and often painfully. Later on, there are options to move into leadership or director positions, sub-specialize further (I went back and did a fellowship 7 years after finishing residency), move into different practice models and settings. Those who choose academic paths never run out of new things to do with research or teaching.


The GI Bill is a fantastic deal for many people, but if you look at the big picture, it's not likely to be a great deal for a future physician when you consider the lost income you suffer by trading 4-5 years of attending physician income. (It's actually worse than that, because early attending years in many specialties are much lower in earnings because it may take time to develop a practice, referral base, etc. Delayed entry into medicine doesn't sacrifice the FIRST years of full-time attending work, but rather the LAST years of full-time attending work, during the most productive and lucrative part of one's career.)


Anyway - if you want to be in the Army and take a stab at special forces, do it. Live your dream, whatever it is. Just don't do it thinking it'll give you a leg up toward a career in medicine or be a net financial positive. It'll probably have at best a neutral and most likely a negative effect for most people.