Growing Number of Osteopathic Schools

[Cabbage]

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Osteopathic schools seem to open every year....does anyone have a list of future/proposed osteopathic schools? We are up to 28 schools right now!

 

[MedDO101]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States

scroll down to the bottom
Theres only one new osteopathic school opening next year but one is better than none.

 

[JonnyG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States

scroll down to the bottom
Theres only one new osteopathic school opening next year but one is better than none.

most students and docs would say NONE is better than one.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

most students and docs would say NONE is better than one.

Most medical students and docs would say that NONE is better than one.

Most pre-medical students would say that 21 is better than 20.

It's obvious that once people get accepted that they have an entirely different perspective on the opening of new schools.

 

[devildoc2]

That list in Wikipedia is woefully inaccurate.

There are 33 new/planned medical schools that have either opened since 2002 or will be opening between now and 2010.

Here is the full list that includes both MD and DO programs:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=277016

 

[RockfordWF]

most students and docs would say NONE is better than one.

Why? There is a looming physician shortage. It doesn't affect us in any way.

 

[Jpc984]

they need to increase residency positions at the same rate.

 

[JaggerPlate]

they need to increase residency positions at the same rate.

Bingo. The residency spots have been capped under some document created in like 1997. This problem needs to be addressed, especially for AOA residencies.

 

[Coastie]

Bingo. The residency spots have been capped under some document created in like 1997. This problem needs to be addressed, especially for AOA residencies.

Actually, there are more residency spots than AMG's each year. I think we should keep the residency spots capped, allow them to completely fill with AMG's, and only then consider an increase. After all, medicare funds these, and we need to keep our tax dollars "within the fold", so to speak.

 

[JonnyG]

Actually, there are more residency spots than AMG's each year. I think we should keep the residency spots capped, allow them to completely fill with AMG's, and only then consider an increase. After all, medicare funds these, and we need to keep our tax dollars "within the fold", so to speak.

these unfilled spots are in specialties that are less desirable for american grads and many risk not being able to pay their debt by entering into those specialties because of low pay. Another problem is that several schools pass the buck on insuring their students recieve proper clinical education. They advertise it as giving the student the ability to spend years 3 and 4 where ever they want but that is them endagering the profession by producing graduates with sub par education. This issue was recently bought up by the head of the AOA when he went before COCA. Unfortunately he is not allowed to tell them what to do, he just hopes they will see the light.

I would take quality over quantity any day when it comes to the DO profession, it worked well for roughly 70 years.

 

[scpod]

Bingo. The residency spots have been capped under some document created in like 1997. This problem needs to be addressed, especially for AOA residencies.

The cap only applies to the increase of spots for existing residencies. New ones are opening all the time.

Actually, the number of osteopathic first-year positions has increased by 16% since 1997. There are also 13 states-- Alaska, Kentucky, Louisianna, Minnesota, Mississipi, Nevada, New Hamshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Washington, or Wyoming-- that didn't have osteopathic residencies a decade ago but have opened them since then. There are a lot of people working on increasing osteopathic GME spots. So....this crap about not doing anything about increasing residency slots is simply....crap.

One thing that is holding "better" residencies from being created is the requirement that a board-certified DO be the director of a new residency. I know of one hospital that has tried for a few years to lure a board-certified DO cardiologist in order to open a cardiology residency, but they haven't been able to get one. They have a heart center there, but they can't find anyone. If they could start one with an MD, they would have had it years ago. If you want to see better residencies, talk to the AOA about changing that rule.

 

[Coastie]

these unfilled spots are in specialties that are less desirable for american grads and many risk not being able to pay their debt by entering into those specialties because of low pay. Another problem is that several schools pass the buck on insuring their students recieve proper clinical education. They advertise it as giving the student the ability to spend years 3 and 4 where ever they want but that is them endagering the profession by producing graduates with sub par education. This issue was recently bought up by the head of the AOA when he went before COCA. Unfortunately he is not allowed to tell them what to do, he just hopes they will see the light.

I would take quality over quantity any day when it comes to the DO profession, it worked well for roughly 70 years.

I agree. I'm all about quality in our medical profession, and I hope that DO GME will clean some things up. If they do, then the next step will be to open it up to MD's and DO's (it's only fair), and get more people involved in GME.

I agree that undergraduate medical education at some of these schools is severely deficient, especially the places that throw students to the wind to rotate at community programs many states away. We need to inject some quality into this situation.

Regarding specialties where people cannot pay back their debt: For starters, we need to get tuition under control. Fly-by-night schools such as Rocky Vista don't exactly help the situation, and without clinical departments to supplement the cost of educating the med students, costs will only fly higher and higher, passed directly on to the student's private loans.

The primary care specialties can be some of the highest paying, assuming the physician knows two squats about business. Medical schools need to recognize the great benefit to both patient's and physicians in running a very tight economic practice, which can end up lowering costs and raising profits at the same time. If we don't have American grads in primary care, two things will happen: 1) It will continue to be flooded with FMG's, which drains our tax dollars and has a dampening effect on the economy and quality of medicine. 2) The nurse practioners who want to practice at your local Wal-Mart will be emboldened by both the poor quality and small quantity of FMG-dominated primary care physicians, leading to more tools in their legislation box to fight for their "right" to practice medicine in order to "help the people".

We physicians (MD and DO) have a lot of work to do.

 

[Lokhtar]

The cap only applies to the increase of spots for existing residencies. New ones are opening all the time.

Actually, the number of osteopathic first-year positions has increased by 16% since 1997. There are also 13 states-- Alaska, Kentucky, Louisianna, Minnesota, Mississipi, Nevada, New Hamshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Washington, or Wyoming-- that didn't have osteopathic residencies a decade ago but have opened them since then. There are a lot of people working on increasing osteopathic GME spots. So....this crap about not doing anything about increasing residency slots is simply....crap.

One thing that is holding "better" residencies from being created is the requirement that a board-certified DO be the director of a new residency. I know of one hospital that has tried for a few years to lure a board-certified DO cardiologist in order to open a cardiology residency, but they haven't been able to get one. They have a heart center there, but they can't find anyone. If they could start one with an MD, they would have had it years ago. If you want to see better residencies, talk to the AOA about changing that rule.

16% increase in residencies - what % increase in students?

 

[JonnyG]

16% increase in residencies - what % increase in students?

from 1995-2005 it grew by over 50% and that was before several new schools opened. scpod the creation of new residency spots is trailing the number of DOs the assertion cannot be refuted that easily

 

[DO Anes]

The cap only applies to the increase of spots for existing residencies. New ones are opening all the time.

Actually, the number of osteopathic first-year positions has increased by 16% since 1997. There are also 13 states-- Alaska, Kentucky, Louisianna, Minnesota, Mississipi, Nevada, New Hamshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, Washington, or Wyoming-- that didn't have osteopathic residencies a decade ago but have opened them since then. There are a lot of people working on increasing osteopathic GME spots. So....this crap about not doing anything about increasing residency slots is simply....crap.

One thing that is holding "better" residencies from being created is the requirement that a board-certified DO be the director of a new residency. I know of one hospital that has tried for a few years to lure a board-certified DO cardiologist in order to open a cardiology residency, but they haven't been able to get one. They have a heart center there, but they can't find anyone. If they could start one with an MD, they would have had it years ago. If you want to see better residencies, talk to the AOA about changing that rule.

Not quite. The BBA of 1997 capped the global number of residencies funded by Medicare at 1997 levels. There is no exemption for new residencies. Any new residencies created are being funded by parties other than Medicare. Of course, a residency is an expensive undertaking and many hospitals do not see the need to spend the money.
Your other point is correct. Not only does the AOA require their program directors to be DO's, they must be certified by a DO board, rather than by the ABMS. Since 2/3 of grads enter ACGME/ABMS programs, where are then new DO program directors going to come from? Sure, there are a lot of primary care people, but what about the specialties, anesthesiology, nephrology, radiation oncology? Or are DO's just glorified nurse pracitioners? Without specialists, that is exactly what we will be. Frankly, I fail to understand how an anesthesiologist who graduated from an AOA residency, say Sun Coast Osteopathic Hospital, can be qualified to run a DO residency, while a DO graduate of John's Hopkins anesthesiology residency is not.
But it's ok to irresponsibly open new schools and allow preposterous increases in class sizes without any planned clinical education. Why not skip the formalities and just go straight to a 2 year online Associate Degree in Osteopathic Medicine?

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm , You can sort the programs by number, the higher the number the more recent its creation. These have been created in the last couple of months.

181622 PCOM/Lourdes Medical Center of Burlington County - Obstetrics & Gynecology Resid Obstetrics & Gynecology Willingboro NJ
181603 UNECOM/Kent Hospital - Emergency Medicine Residency Emergency Medicine Warwick RI
181601 LECOM/Conemaugh Valley Memorial Hosp - Emergency Medicine Residency Emergency Medicine Johnstown PA
181600 OUCOM/Southern Ohio Med Ctr - Emergency Medicine Residency Emergency Medicine Portsmouth OH
181100 Chino Valley Medical Center - Sports Medicine Residency Sports Medicine Chino CA
181016 KCOM/U of Minnesota Mankato - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Mankato MN
181014 WVSOM/Camden-Clark Memorial Hospital - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Parkersburg WV
181009 St James Hospital and Health Centers - Hematology & Oncology Residency Hematology & Oncology Olympia Fields IL
181008 OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Medical Ctr - Oncology Residency Oncology Dayton OH
181007 OUCOM/Grandview Hosp & Medical Ctr - Hematology & Oncology Residency Hematology & Oncology Dayton OH
181006 Columbia Hospital - Internal Med-Pediatrics Residency Internal Med-Pediatrics West Palm Beach FL
181005 Montgomery Regional Hospital - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Blacksburg VA
181003 Bluefield Regional Medical Center - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Bluefield WV
180861 LECOM/St Petersburg General Hospital - Family Practice Residency Family Practice St Petersburg FL
180860 UNECOM/Kent Hospital - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Warwick RI
180857 KCOM/Medical College of Wisconsin - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Milwaukee WI
180856 PCOM/Williamsport Hospital/Med Ctr - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Williamsport PA
180855 NYCOM/St Clares Hosp - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Schenectady NY
180854 PCSOM/Fort Wayne Medical Ed Program - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Fort Wayne IN
180852 NSUCOM/Floyd Medical Center - Family Practice Residency Family Practice Rome GA
180851 Univ TX Medical Branch - Galveston - Family Practice Family Practice Galveston TX
180839 MSUCOM/Sinai-Grace Hospital - Surgery-General Surgery-General Detroit MI
180157 MSUCOM/Sinai-Grace Hospital - Anesthesiology Residency Anesthesiology Detroit MI
178442 UNTHSC/TCOM/Driscoll Children's Hospital - Pediatrics Residency Pediatrics Corpus Christi TX
178048 MSUCOM/Huron Valley/Sinai Hospital - Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg Otolaryn & Facial Plastic Surg Commerce MI
176321 NSUCOM/Palmetto General Hosp - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Hialeah FL
176274 Magnolia Regional Health Center - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Corinth MS
176269 St John Macomb Hospital/StJohnOsteoDiv - Obstetrics & Gynecology Residency Obstetrics & Gynecology Warren MI
176268 St John Macomb Hospital/StJohnOsteoDiv - Nephrology Residency Nephrology Warren MI
176266 St John Macomb Hospital/StJohnOsteoDiv - Internal Medicine Residency Internal Medicine Warren MI
176265 St John Macomb Hospital/StJohnOsteoDiv - Hematology & Oncology Residency Hematology & Oncology Warren MI
176264 St John Macomb Hospita/StJohnOsteoDivl - Gastroenterology Residency Gastroenterology Warren MI

 

[scpod]

Not quite. The BBA of 1997 capped the global number of residencies funded by Medicare at 1997 levels. There is no exemption for new residencies. Any new residencies created are being funded by parties other than Medicare.

You might want to check your sources on that. The BBA cap does not apply to new programs in rural underserved areas for the first three years OR for hospitals that did not have residency programs prior to January 1, 1995.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Well it seems as if I was wrong (being a premed, no one should be shocked -hahaha). So what is the deal then? New residencies can open, they just can't be backed by certain agencies under that 1997 agreement?? Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Not quite. The BBA of 1997 capped the global number of residencies funded by Medicare at 1997 levels. There is no exemption for new residencies. Any new residencies created are being funded by parties other than Medicare. Of course, a residency is an expensive undertaking and many hospitals do not see the need to spend the money.
Your other point is correct. Not only does the AOA require their program directors to be DO's, they must be certified by a DO board, rather than by the ABMS. Since 2/3 of grads enter ACGME/ABMS programs, where are then new DO program directors going to come from? Sure, there are a lot of primary care people, but what about the specialties, anesthesiology, nephrology, radiation oncology? Or are DO's just glorified nurse pracitioners? Without specialists, that is exactly what we will be. Frankly, I fail to understand how an anesthesiologist who graduated from an AOA residency, say Sun Coast Osteopathic Hospital, can be qualified to run a DO residency, while a DO graduate of John's Hopkins anesthesiology residency is not.
But it's ok to irresponsibly open new schools and allow preposterous increases in class sizes without any planned clinical education. Why not skip the formalities and just go straight to a 2 year online Associate Degree in Osteopathic Medicine?

Sorry to double post, but I completely agree dowith your view on specialties. I hope that this is changed in the future so that ACGME/ABMS graduates can be directors and AOA residencies will really bloom. Any chance of this in the future in your opinion doctor?

 

[DO Anes]

I have been stunned by the lack of perspective and forethought at the AOA. Dr. Ajluni has made a few moves in a progressive direction, but nothing of substance happens. A committee was created to examine ways to bring ACGME trained DO's back to the profession. Their resolution/solution amounted to a feel-good pat on the back, rather than a real initiative to address a looming problem. I have serious fears about this profession's ability to continue to function into the future. Irresponsible expansion is straining an already compromised GME system. This is like watching a car crash in slow motion. My prediction: nationwide conversion of ACGME trained DO's to MD or some sort of phsyician status (DOM, MDO, etc.), while AOA certified become relegated to limited practice, chiropractic-like status. The retiring baby boomers are going to put a heretofore unseen stress on the medical system. The first casualty will be GME.

 

[sexyman]

while AOA certified become relegated to limited practice, chiropractic-like status.

How/why would this happen?

 

[JaggerPlate]

How/why would this happen?

Expanding too fast, not enough money, not opening residencies/making positions available so residencies can be started etc etc. I would definitely respect DO Anes' opinion (he is an attending), but I personally have a hard time believing that anyone who attended 4 years of medical school would suddenly find themselves S.O.L, cracking backs in some strip mall clinic. I think his concerns are valid, but the DO degree has come wayyy to far to end up as some stepping stone to an MD.