JPevzner

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I was wondering whether its possible to get a guaranteed HPSP scholarship two years before I start dental school. I ask because I have been accepted to UOP's 2+3 accelerated dental program and am not sure whether I want to go there because its so darn expensive. However, if it were possible to have some contract that could guarantee me this scholarship, provided I get >3.5 GPA and >20 DAT for example, I would attend UOP in a heartbeat. Without some certainty that I will be able to get this scholarship, I will have serious reservations attending UOP because of the enormous debt burden (350k+). Any and all help is welcome and greatly appreciated.

-Jon
 
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JPevzner

JPevzner

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Thanks, but im still looking for a little more information on the subject matter.
 

agent2362

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Thanks, but im still looking for a little more information on the subject matter.
The army (possibly the navy too but not the air force for sure) has what they call AAC (Automatic Acceptance Criteria) qualified. Basically, this means that as long as you pass the MEPS physical fitness test and have a 3.5+ GPA and 19+ DAT score, then you are guaranteed a HPSP slot if they have any available. Army had 144 spots this year I think.

So if you keep decent grades and do fine on the DAT, then I wouldnt worry.
 

drsomeday1

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The army (possibly the navy too but not the air force for sure) has what they call AAC (Automatic Acceptance Criteria) qualified. Basically, this means that as long as you pass the MEPS physical fitness test and have a 3.5+ GPA and 19+ DAT score, then you are guaranteed a HPSP slot if they have any available. Army had 144 spots this year I think.

So if you keep decent grades and do fine on the DAT, then I wouldnt worry.
That's not completely true. I just joined and yes, they do guarantee your acceptance if you get above a 3.5 and 19 DAT, but the time is pretty tight. You have to make a decision about it early and get it in quickly. For example, they're still trying to fill the slots, which are half as many as they were a few years ago, but they're filling up quickly now. It only gets worse the next few months and they're totally filled by the time school starts. AF and Navy are already filled. AF cut down to 5 (not a joke), Navy I'm not sure about, and Army cut from about 180 last year to about 80 or 100 this year. Only Army's left now. I'm sure you'll do fine though, especially if you have two years to prep and you're already asking the right questions. Good luck!
 
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krmower

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That's not completely true. I just joined and yes, they do guarantee your acceptance if you get above a 3.5 and 19 DAT, but the time is pretty tight. You have to make a decision about it early and get it in quickly. For example, they're still trying to fill the slots, which are half as many as they were a few years ago, but they're filling up quickly now. It only gets worse the next few months and they're totally filled by the time school starts. AF and Navy are already filled. AF cut down to 5 (not a joke), Navy I'm not sure about, and Army cut from about 180 last year to about 80 or 100 this year. Only Army's left now. I'm sure you'll do fine though, especially if you have two years to prep and you're already asking the right questions. Good luck!
Army has kept about the same number of scholarships year by year (They budget and plan and stick to it). The numbers only vary slightly - USArmyHPSP can correct me if I am wrong. Each year they typically have about 130 scholarships - 50 3 yr and 80 4 yr. The 3 years have begun going very quickly because alternates for the 4 yr are offered a chance at the 3 yr the next year.
 
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JPevzner

JPevzner

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AAC sounds cool. I have a meeting with the recruiter in half an hour so ill let u know how it goes. thanks for the help thus far.
 
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JPevzner

JPevzner

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Ok. Just got done with my meeting with the recruiter. The guy didn't know a damn thing about HPSP. He's goona arrange a meeting between me and the lieutenant medical specialist.
 

krmower

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Ok. Just got done with my meeting with the recruiter. The guy didn't know a damn thing about HPSP. He's goona arrange a meeting between me and the lieutenant medical specialist.
That's too bad. You can always give me a call. PM if you want to get a hold of me.
 
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I am army HPSP for MD, and I want to know are we going to be doing OBLC together please?
 

agent2362

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Ok. Just got done with my meeting with the recruiter. The guy didn't know a damn thing about HPSP. He's goona arrange a meeting between me and the lieutenant medical specialist.
Ok JPenzer and everyone else who wants to do UoP with HPSP, here's something that most or maybe all recruiters do not know and will probably screw up for you like they did for me.

Due to the past mistakes of the air force in over estimating the number of dentist they needed over the last few years (thus having a surplus of military dentists), all the branches have very set numbers of how many dentist they can have graduate every year. Additionally, most of the branches hand out 3 year HPSP before they hand out their 4 year HPSP. Those 3 year HPSP are taken up by D1 students who finally realize its the smart thing to do. What this means for me and other future HPSP people who get into HPSP: you might get screwed over like i just did.

So I met AAC qualifications for HPSP and thus will get a HPSP spot for class of 2014. However, since technically all the three year scholarships have been handed out already, class of 2013 is at max capacity, thus I cannot apply the scholarship to UoP since I would be graduating in class of 2013:thumbdown:

Recruiters can be worthless sometimes.... if you want to do HPSP and UoP in the future, you are going to have to apply early and make sure that the recruiter knows that you need a 3 year and NOT a four scholarship.
 

krmower

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Ok JPenzer and everyone else who wants to do UoP with HPSP, here's something that most or maybe all recruiters do not know and will probably screw up for you like they did for me.

Due to the past mistakes of the air force in over estimating the number of dentist they needed over the last few years (thus having a surplus of military dentists), all the branches have very set numbers of how many dentist they can have graduate every year. Additionally, most of the branches hand out 3 year HPSP before they hand out their 4 year HPSP. Those 3 year HPSP are taken up by D1 students who finally realize its the smart thing to do. What this means for me and other future HPSP people who get into HPSP: you might get screwed over like i just did.

So I met AAC qualifications for HPSP and thus will get a HPSP spot for class of 2014. However, since technically all the three year scholarships have been handed out already, class of 2013 is at max capacity, thus I cannot apply the scholarship to UoP since I would be graduating in class of 2013:thumbdown:

Recruiters can be worthless sometimes.... if you want to do HPSP and UoP in the future, you are going to have to apply early and make sure that the recruiter knows that you need a 3 year and NOT a four scholarship.
Not quite sure what you are basing your information off of - let's put things out here straight. Each service basis the number of scholarships (both 4 and 3 yr) off of what they will need in the future to maintain their force. If a service is full or down sizing, then they will not offer as many scholarships if their people that forcast manpower think they will be fine. So what one service does or ddesn't do has no affect on the other services HPSP.

I can't speak for the other services, but the 3 year scholarships in the Army go faster, because there is fewer of them. Also, there are the wait-listed 4 yr HPSP applicants that have their packets ready to go and apply for them right off the bat - whereas the new 4yr applicants are still getting packets together, waiting for acceptance letters, and deciding whether mom, dad, or significant other will approve of them joining.

I am not sure what service you applied with, but the HPSP is not a right or a guarantee - therefore for someone to be upset and feel like they were screwed over something that is a competition seems strange. If you decide to go to UOP that is a choice. It will put you at a disadvantage for getting a HPSP because you are competing for scholarships that are tougher to get (more competition - less available). Your alternative is to apply to a 4 yr school where you will have a much better chance with all 3 services HPSP.

If you feel like your recruiter screwed you because he/she put you in for a 4 yr and you were applying to a 3 yr school - shouldn't have made that much difference since the process is the same, and things will be changed by the recruiting command when they see it.

AAC program is not something that the Army has even though most (including recruiters) people believe it does. Medical offers it - not dental. The biggest factor is timing - look ahead, decide what you want and apply early. The HPSP will only get more competitive in the future as retention and recruitment remain strong.

If you are set on UOP and the military and don't get HPSP - there are still loan repayment programs offered through the military as well as public health. If HPSP was just a bump on the way to becoming a private practice dentist - you will have the opportunity to start sooner.

2 yr HPSP are easier to get - and it gives you the advantage of being able to do a 12 month AEGD without incuring an additional year (since you will owe 3 yrs anyway).
 
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JPevzner

JPevzner

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Very interesting information!
 

agent2362

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Not quite sure what you are basing your information off of - let's put things out here straight. Each service basis the number of scholarships (both 4 and 3 yr) off of what they will need in the future to maintain their force. If a service is full or down sizing, then they will not offer as many scholarships if their people that forcast manpower think they will be fine. So what one service does or ddesn't do has no affect on the other services HPSP.

I can't speak for the other services, but the 3 year scholarships in the Army go faster, because there is fewer of them. Also, there are the wait-listed 4 yr HPSP applicants that have their packets ready to go and apply for them right off the bat - whereas the new 4yr applicants are still getting packets together, waiting for acceptance letters, and deciding whether mom, dad, or significant other will approve of them joining.

I am not sure what service you applied with, but the HPSP is not a right or a guarantee - therefore for someone to be upset and feel like they were screwed over something that is a competition seems strange. If you decide to go to UOP that is a choice. It will put you at a disadvantage for getting a HPSP because you are competing for scholarships that are tougher to get (more competition - less available). Your alternative is to apply to a 4 yr school where you will have a much better chance with all 3 services HPSP.

If you feel like your recruiter screwed you because he/she put you in for a 4 yr and you were applying to a 3 yr school - shouldn't have made that much difference since the process is the same, and things will be changed by the recruiting command when they see it.

AAC program is not something that the Army has even though most (including recruiters) people believe it does. Medical offers it - not dental. The biggest factor is timing - look ahead, decide what you want and apply early. The HPSP will only get more competitive in the future as retention and recruitment remain strong.

If you are set on UOP and the military and don't get HPSP - there are still loan repayment programs offered through the military as well as public health. If HPSP was just a bump on the way to becoming a private practice dentist - you will have the opportunity to start sooner.

2 yr HPSP are easier to get - and it gives you the advantage of being able to do a 12 month AEGD without incuring an additional year (since you will owe 3 yrs anyway).
I actually talked to Capt Parrish who I believe that you know and referred to you. He said that he cringes every time someone is applying to HPSP with the intention of going to UoP, since it has become trickier.

I dont exactly feel like I was screwed over by the recruiter; it is just wearisome to not ever have facts quite straight. And as far as competition, if I can make it into Penn AND UoP as a deans scholar, then I have a hard time believing that HPSP is more competitive than either of those two spots. The exception to that would be Air Force this year since they only had 5 four year spots...

Here's one thing I dont get. If the particular military branch knows how many people they need in a given year, then why dont they give out exactly that number of four year scholarships? Why give out any three year scholarships at all? Do they recalculate and find out that they were 30-50 short of the number they predicted??

HPSP is not a bump on the way to private practice, but it might or might not be a bump on the way to specialization if I wanna go right away or wanna do 6 year OMFS, since that is not available in the military anymore...

So my recruiter suggested that I might be able to apply the four year HPSP to UoP and then let the military deal with the fact that I graduate a year early and adjust accordingly. he also said that might be construed as fraud. I'm probably going to just see what current HPSP recipients at UoP did that Im in contact with.
 

krmower

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I actually talked to Capt Parrish who I believe that you know and referred to you. He said that he cringes every time someone is applying to HPSP with the intention of going to UoP, since it has become trickier.

I dont exactly feel like I was screwed over by the recruiter; it is just wearisome to not ever have facts quite straight. And as far as competition, if I can make it into Penn AND UoP as a deans scholar, then I have a hard time believing that HPSP is more competitive than either of those two spots. The exception to that would be Air Force this year since they only had 5 four year spots...

Here's one thing I dont get. If the particular military branch knows how many people they need in a given year, then why dont they give out exactly that number of four year scholarships? Why give out any three year scholarships at all? Do they recalculate and find out that they were 30-50 short of the number they predicted??

HPSP is not a bump on the way to private practice, but it might or might not be a bump on the way to specialization if I wanna go right away or wanna do 6 year OMFS, since that is not available in the military anymore...

So my recruiter suggested that I might be able to apply the four year HPSP to UoP and then let the military deal with the fact that I graduate a year early and adjust accordingly. he also said that might be construed as fraud. I'm probably going to just see what current HPSP recipients at UoP did that Im in contact with.
The scholarships are programed years out. It's not simply a matter of how many went out one year - then adjust the next. Here's the best explanation for offering a 3 yr scholarship.

As an example let's say the Army gives you enough money to pay for 100 4 yr HPSP. If you take a portion of that money and break it down into 3 yr scholarships, then instead of only getting 100 new dentists - you now get 115 dentists (combined 3 and 4 yr HPSP - the numbers are only used as an example). If the biggest hurdle to overcome in getting long-term dentists is to get them in the door - you just accomplished your mission. A percentage of all incoming dentists will stay beyond their initial obligation, to the more that come in - the higher that number that stays.

If someone likes it when they get in, they will stay regardless of whether they got a 3 or a 4 yr scholarship. And by offering some 3 yr scholarships you were able to get even more in using the same amount of money. On the flip side, if someone is bound and determined to get out as soon as their obligation is done - it won't matter if you offer them a 3 or a 4 yr scholarship.

As far as competitiveness, that is relative. Regardless of GPA or scores, if you wait until there is very little of something left - your chances are decreased. So taking this year as an example - if someone wanted/needed a 3yr scholarship and didn't apply during the first board when there were more available...not much can be done. Each board that goes by there is less and less making them more competitive. The same will apply to those trying to get a 4yr scholarship...the longer someone waits, the fewer options they will have regardless of how impressive they may be.
 
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