Guidance, please. DMD/MD and OFMS.

[carocasey]

xxxxx

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[SoCalDent]

I would most definitely go the case DMD/MD route. OMFS is such a long route and that cuts some time off of it.
Of course if you do that it would seem silly to go to a 6 year program.

I would certainly apply to the case program and then to a 4 year residency program thereafter.

PS. I was hoping to do the same thing, however I am going to dental school this year w/o an undergraduate degree which makes me ineligible for Case's program.

Good luck

 

[Regmata]

Although not completely equal, you will get plenty of physio, anatomy and health instruction in dental school. We take the same classes as the meds, they just go a bit more in depth and have to answer harder questions on their boards. If you truly think that a dental school curriculum won't satisfy your lust for knowledge then go for OMFS. If you are smart and determined you will get it. I am unfamiliar with Case's program, but if you want to work with TMD and palates, you will need more than just an MD. Since you will likely have to go through the OMFS training anyway, why not wait until then to get your MD?

 

[carocasey]

xxxxx

 

[carocasey]

xxxxx

 

[SoCalDent]

I just thought that, if there was any chance that my desires changed in d-school or OMFS fell through, I would regret having missed the chance to do the med school thing. It seems Case can't hurt in any way (other than debt), and could possibly help, if the advantages aren't exactly equal with a 6 yr OMFS residency. I don't know. I'm such an indecisive person that I may be making this a bigger deal than it is. I anticipate many sleepless nights just thinking about it all of the options/advantages/disadvantages/etc. I tend to over-analyze.

You are definitely thinking too much. Just apply to the Case program and every other dental school you want. If you get in then do it, if not go to a normal dental program and do a 6 year OMFS.

Now go study for the DAT/MCAT.

 

[crazy4clana]

That's an awesome degree, I never knew that there was a DMD/MD programs other than OMFS specialties. What can you do with an DMD/MD degree besides OMFS that DDS/MDs can't?

 

[fightingspirit]

First, let me make it clear that I want to go into dentistry. My interest lies in TMJD treatment and cleft palate, particularly, and I want to do OMFS. I am fully committed to dental school, and if OMFS doesn't work out for me, I want to do ortho or peds, not medicine. But hopefully it does - because I truly have a passion for the TMJ.

BUT, I REALLY want to go to medical school. Not to be a doctor - but I want to know everything about human anatomy, physiology, health, etc. It all fascinates me.

I know I can go dental and then hopefully do an OMFS 6 year residency, but my question is this: Should I consider Case's MD/DMD program? Would it give me any advantage over the 6 year OMFS program?

I struggled with the decision for a while before a moment of clarity made me realize that I want to GO to medical school but I really want to BE a dentist. Even if I don't do OMFS, I want the knowledge. Of course, that's an expensive thing to do, which makes me think that maybe Case's program would be a good option, if I'm fortunate enough to be accepted.

I'm also interested in going the military route, if that makes any difference in the 6 yr OMFS issue. Or the DMD/MD issue, for that matter.

I'm scheduled to take the DAT at the end of May, but if I'm going to try this route, I need to schedule the MCAT as well, so I'm just trying to figure things out. I've also already requested LORs for dental school. If I apply to this program, can I use the same letters or do I need to ask my evaluators to "edit" them for DMD/MD. Input from others with an interest in dentistry/medicine would be very helpful. Family and friends just don't seem to understand!

Thanks!

just a friendly and genuine warning to the wise: NEVER EVER get into dental school with the idea of specializing in OMFS or ortho without the idea of being TOTALLY comfortable with just being a GP, because having the desire is one thing but having the ability is another! also you seem to be an over-analytical person. this trait is not a bad one but it will kill you in dental school. you are better off in med-school if you're the cerebral type. OMFS is an awesome career but getting there is very hard and many will only dream of it and not see it. to be an OMFS, you need the following:

1-do well in dental school and rank HIGH in your class: even with performance-enhancing drugs, no easy feat!
2-have extra-curricular activities in your dental school: good luck finding time and energy for that.
3-kick royal *** on the boards: unless you go to a school like columbia or uconn, you're aint kickin *** on the boards unless you're one of the top 5 in the class.
4-omfs faculty has to like you so that you get a decent rec letter: good luck impressing the smartest and the most talented!
5-you need to be good in clinic and pre-clinic lab: pray that you end up being someone with extreme organizational and compartmentalization skills, along with a cunning personality that enables you to figure out which corners to cut.

not trying to burst your bubble or bring you down. it's great that you're ambitious and OMFS is just awesome. it is IMHO, the best healthcare career out there period. but it's important to not only consider the best scenario but also the worst scenario.

good luck

 

[DrReo]

First, let me make it clear that I want to go into dentistry. My interest lies in TMJD treatment and cleft palate, particularly, and I want to do OMFS. I am fully committed to dental school, and if OMFS doesn't work out for me, I want to do ortho or peds, not medicine. But hopefully it does - because I truly have a passion for the TMJ.

BUT, I REALLY want to go to medical school. Not to be a doctor - but I want to know everything about human anatomy, physiology, health, etc. It all fascinates me.

I know I can go dental and then hopefully do an OMFS 6 year residency, but my question is this: Should I consider Case's MD/DMD program? Would it give me any advantage over the 6 year OMFS program?

I struggled with the decision for a while before a moment of clarity made me realize that I want to GO to medical school but I really want to BE a dentist. Even if I don't do OMFS, I want the knowledge. Of course, that's an expensive thing to do, which makes me think that maybe Case's program would be a good option, if I'm fortunate enough to be accepted.

I'm also interested in going the military route, if that makes any difference in the 6 yr OMFS issue. Or the DMD/MD issue, for that matter.

I'm scheduled to take the DAT at the end of May, but if I'm going to try this route, I need to schedule the MCAT as well, so I'm just trying to figure things out. I've also already requested LORs for dental school. If I apply to this program, can I use the same letters or do I need to ask my evaluators to "edit" them for DMD/MD. Input from others with an interest in dentistry/medicine would be very helpful. Family and friends just don't seem to understand!

Thanks!

Are you thinking about applying to this cycle, sounds like an amazing program. Also, have you been preparing for the MCAT?

 

[armorshell]

1-do well in dental school and rank HIGH in your class: even with performance-enhancing drugs, no easy feat!
2-have extra-curricular activities in your dental school: good luck finding time and energy for that.
3-kick royal *** on the boards: unless you go to a school like columbia or uconn, you're aint kickin *** on the boards unless you're one of the top 5 in the class.
4-omfs faculty has to like you so that you get a decent rec letter: good luck impressing the smartest and the most talented!
5-you need to be good in clinic and pre-clinic lab: pray that you end up being someone with extreme organizational and compartmentalization skills, along with a cunning personality that enables you to figure out which corners to cut.

I totally disagree with several of these points. You shouldn't need to be using performance enhancing drugs to be at the top of your class, nor is it necessary to be at the top of your class to do well on boards. Class rank, in my opinion, is more a factor of planning, scheduling and hard work then anything else. I get at least 6 hours every night, get out on the weekends every now and then and still manage to maintain a good class rank in a crazy program.

Secondly, a huge factor in class rank is handskills, and those aren't in any way related to your ability to perform didactically. Just because you got a D in operative and it dunked you down into the 20s doesn't mean you can't get a 98 on boards.

Do note that I totally agree with your other points.

 

[Regmata]

A guy from my clinically based, non-ivy league school was ranked in the 40s out of 90 students, scored a 98 on the boards and got into Oregon's OMFS program...which I am told is quite competitive. There are all sorts of ways to get into surgery programs...I don't recommend this path, but apparently it can work.

 

[fightingspirit]

I totally disagree with several of these points. You shouldn't need to be using performance enhancing drugs to be at the top of your class, nor is it necessary to be at the top of your class to do well on boards. ......

Secondly, a huge factor in class rank is handskills, and those aren't in any way related to your ability to perform didactically. Just because you got a D in operative and it dunked you down into the 20s doesn't mean you can't get a 98 on boards.

Do note that I totally agree with your other points.

true enough. let me clarify: i did not mean that performance-enhancing drugs are a must or a right thing to do. i was just making a point regarding the extreme difficulty in ranking high in the class. i meant to say that it requires abnormal and unusual discipline and organizational skills. as far as what i said regarding rank and board score here's what i meant: at a school like uconn or columbia, the program is set up to help students perform well on the boards so even if the student ranks low in the class, he/she is still well prepared for the boards. at other schools (clinically oriented schools), the program is setup to perform in clinic not boards and therefore those who wish to perform well on the board would have to go out of their way to find time and energy to study for the boards; this requires extreme discipline. at clnically oriented schools, those who have enough discipline to rank high are the same ones who are able to find time and energy to killl the board. the correlation is real.

as far as your statement regardng handskills being a huge factr in class rank, nothing is more true than that and that's the ugliest thing about dental school in my opinion. it can truly be a bummer that breaks your stride and makes you hate dentistry. indeed, poor handskills ruin your rank and a whole bunch of other things. sadly, many people come to dental school without realizing that. people think that it's ok to have bad handskills because one would learn along the way. but no one pauses and thinks for a bit about the GPA and rank implications of a slow handskill learning curve.

 

[fightingspirit]

A guy from my clinically based, non-ivy league school was ranked in the 40s out of 90 students, scored a 98 on the boards and got into Oregon's OMFS program....

and exceptions like that is what keeps me hangin on, in spite of the hell i am living in right now....

 

[carocasey]

xxxxx

 

[Regmata]

You could always do TMD work as a general dentist or even get your phD...

 

[barrett15]

1-do well in dental school and rank HIGH in your class: even with performance-enhancing drugs, no easy feat!

Enzyte?

 

[i like dat]

Enzyte?

nice.

 

[jackbauer!]

true enough. let me clarify: i did not mean that performance-enhancing drugs are a must or a right thing to do. i was just making a point regarding the extreme difficulty in ranking high in the class. i meant to say that it requires abnormal and unusual discipline and organizational skills. as far as what i said regarding rank and board score here's what i meant: at a school like uconn or columbia, the program is set up to help students perform well on the boards so even if the student ranks low in the class, he/she is still well prepared for the boards. at other schools (clinically oriented schools), the program is setup to perform in clinic not boards and therefore those who wish to perform well on the board would have to go out of their way to find time and energy to study for the boards; this requires extreme discipline. at clnically oriented schools, those who have enough discipline to rank high are the same ones who are able to find time and energy to killl the board. the correlation is real.

as far as your statement regardng handskills being a huge factr in class rank, nothing is more true than that and that's the ugliest thing about dental school in my opinion. it can truly be a bummer that breaks your stride and makes you hate dentistry. indeed, poor handskills ruin your rank and a whole bunch of other things. sadly, many people come to dental school without realizing that. people think that it's ok to have bad handskills because one would learn along the way. but no one pauses and thinks for a bit about the GPA and rank implications of a slow handskill learning curve.

Dude, what are you talking about? How are having good hand skills the ugliest part about dental school? You're going to be a freaking dentist, not a medical dictionary. Maybe I'm missing something??

jb!

 

[armorshell]

Dude, what are you talking about? How are having good hand skills the ugliest part about dental school? You're going to be a freaking dentist, not a medical dictionary. Maybe I'm missing something??

jb!

I think he's referencing that, if you plan to be an orthodontist or oral surgeon, you have to try and be the best at things like operative and fixed. It's a weird kind of Catch-22.

 

[jackbauer!]

I think he's referencing that, if you plan to be an orthodontist or oral surgeon, you have to try and be the best at things like operative and fixed. It's a weird kind of Catch-22.

Yes, I understand that. I just find it annoying when the "gunners" in my class b*tch about waxing, operative, etc. because they're going to be an "orthodontist" or an "oral surgeon." You came to dental school to be a dentist first and anything after that is secondary. If you didn't realize that coming in, then it's your own damn fault.

Granted, these are the same people that will most likely smoke part I of the boards (which, by the way, is a ******ed basis for evaluating a candidate for a post-grad program) and will have no problem getting in a residency.

Sorry..just had to vent.

jb!

 

[toothfairy85]

Yes, I understand that. I just find it annoying when the "gunners" in my class b*tch about waxing, operative, etc. because they're going to be an "orthodontist" or an "oral surgeon." You came to dental school to be a dentist first and anything after that is secondary. If you didn't realize that coming in, then it's your own damn fault.

Granted, these are the same people that will most likely smoke part I of the boards (which, by the way, is a ******ed basis for evaluating a candidate for a post-grad program) and will have no problem getting in a residency.

Sorry..just had to vent.

jb!

Amen!

 

[armorshell]

Yes, I understand that. I just find it annoying when the "gunners" in my class b*tch about waxing, operative, etc. because they're going to be an "orthodontist" or an "oral surgeon." You came to dental school to be a dentist first and anything after that is secondary. If you didn't realize that coming in, then it's your own damn fault.

Granted, these are the same people that will most likely smoke part I of the boards (which, by the way, is a ******ed basis for evaluating a candidate for a post-grad program) and will have no problem getting in a residency.

Sorry..just had to vent.

jb!

No worries, I actually completely agree with you. There' a reason that orthodontists and OMFS have to go to dental school first, and it's because there's a broad range of things for you to learn in dental school, and almost all of it is applicable in some way. Additionally, I also believe that it's worthless to try and do work on someone without fully understanding why you're doing it and what you're going to do. All that knowledge of waxing, setting denture teeth or whatever lend themselves to a multidisciplinary approach to care.

 

[Streetwolf]

I just want to point out something that I found to be true and so did my friends. We take classes with the med students and get most, if not all, of what they learn per class. For instance we didn't go "below the belt" in anatomy but we learned every last thing they did in biochemistry. Regardless, I feel like I'm learning a lot more than I'll ever need to know. Before I got here I thought that would be awesome. Why should I pass up an opportunity to be on the level of a physician and learn all about the body?

Well ask me again about it now, when we have operative assignments due, dental class exams coming up, and we have no time to study for them or practice drilling / restoring teeth because of a freakin' pathology exam. The med classes get in your way and prevent you from perfecting your skills early on in the game. We'll all pass the classes in the end, but I feel that we could have more time to practice and get more comfortable with what we're doing.

I also know that even if we just had dental classes, that we'd STILL have physiology and pathology and neuroscience and so on. But we end up doing more or less everything that the med students do, which we SHOULDN'T have to do as dental students, and *that* takes up the time.

Will it be worth it one day? Maybe. But right now I wish I had more time to work on the stuff that really matters.

 

[Regmata]

There isn't much going on below the belt that isn't going on in the upper extremities, save the reproductive system and we get more than enough of that in histo and physio...I certainly don't feel left out in those regards