had enough of "U-S-A", Practicing in Europe?

[PoorMD]

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Born and raised in the U.S., I am a first year medical student, love the United States, but it's time I need to leave the country. This is for personal reasons. What are the restrictions on finishing U.S. residency, getting U.S. license, then packing up and heading for England or Switzerland?

PoorMD

 

[businessguy]

Canada should be your first choice!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No it shouldn't.....the Canadian health care system is almost as screwed up as ours, except I don't think their docs make nearly as much. 👎

To the OP, I would recommend checking with the National Health Service in the UK. As for Switzerland, I'll talk to a couple of Swiss doc friends of mine and see what they can suggest.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

Do doctor's get paid much in Switzerland?

I read in the "Europe" forum that it is EXTREMELY difficult to practice in Switzerland.

The UK should be easier, but if I were you, I'd just move to a different state. I dont know if skipping countries could really solve whatever problems you are facing.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I think it's probably an issue with the direction in which the entire country is heading. I know a lot of people who are considering this.

 

[Misterioso]

If that is your plan then you should do your residency in the country you want to practice in. Most European countries won't recognize a residency done in the U.S. and you'll have to do most or even ALL of it over again in that country if you do it here. Most other countries also have their own version on the USMLE exam so you should find out what those exams are since you'll probably have to pass them too before being allowed to work there. For example England has an exam called the PLAB that doctors from outside the UK must pass.

 

[sscooterguy]

I would have to disagree with some of the advice here. I would personally train here and then go abroad. US training/certification is well recognized abroad for MD's. DO's are the ones that usually run into problems when going abroad. I think its much better to get education and training here, even though the health care system is totally different. Plus, if you have any desire to come back to the states, it would be much easier to do so if you have training here. This is just my own experience from advice of some of the docs I work with.

By the way, I hope you don't plan to "stick it to the man" if/when you leave for another country after training by defaulting on your loans. You'll never know when you will need to come back to the states for family/personal/career reasons. If you come back after defaulting, you'll be in major trouble. I don't personally know physician salaries in other countries, but one of the international students at my med school has told me she's going to practice here because you'd never make nearly as much in France. In any case, good luck. Most countries will have websites for working as physicians in their country. Here's a site for Britian: http://www.britainusa.com/faq/showfaq.asp?SID=462

Good luck
sscooterguy

 

[Misterioso]

sscooter, while most other countries recognize our M.D. degree, many don't recognize postgraduate (residency) training not done in their country. Much like how doctors from other countries that come here must redo part or all of their residency and pass the USMLEs even if they are attendings back home in their country.

 

[sscooterguy]

sscooter, while most other countries recognize our M.D. degree, many don't recognize postgraduate (residency) training not done in their country. Much like how doctors from other countries that come here must redo part or all of their residency and pass the USMLEs even if they are attendings back home in their country.

I see what you mean then. Interesting, I wonder how easy/hard it is to get into residency/training programs abroad. I bet general practitioners may have easier time getting by with US training/credentials. On one hand, I would think that a specialist, say cardiologist, would have a hard time because of the differences in training/thought/credentialling, but on the other hand one could argue that US specialty training is excellent and would be welcomed abroad. Does anyone have first hand experience? My friends in fourth year are headed to Australia, New Zealand, and Spain next month. I'll ask them to find out.

sscooterguy

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I've considered NZ and Australia as options for places to practice if things get really bad here in the US....I'd be interested to know their take on things....

 

[MoosePilot]

Man, I hope that people who say they're leaving really leave. It always disappoints me when they just talk the talk, but never buy a ticket.

The OP never turned this political, Praetorian did.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I didn't turn it political. My statement was simply that "if things get really bad here in the US" (which they aren't "really" bad now- and example of really bad would be a certain female Senator getting elected President). Thanks Moose for assuming I'm being a pessimist by leaving my options open.

 

[MoosePilot]

I didn't turn it political. My statement was simply that "if things get really bad here in the US" (which they aren't "really" bad now- and example of really bad would be a certain female Senator getting elected President). Thanks Moose for assuming I'm being a pessimist by leaving my options open.

I was assuming which way you were going, but only because that's what I'm constantly hearing. I never hear "conservative" types (I hate those designations, but people understand them) talk about leaving. I surely wouldn't leave the country to Hillary if somehow she were able to win.

Anyway, I apologize for the assumption, but he said he loves the US and was leaving for personal, not political reasons.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No harm done Moose. You should know by now that I have pretty thick skin and if I act offended I'm usually just being sarcastic.

The only reason I would leave is if we suddenly changed from the country I've grown up with and turned into a hate-mongering theocracy with no regard for civil liberties, etc, etc. I love the US, but I am willing to leave if things get ugly.

Keep in mind that for a lot of people political equal personal. Ever noticed how offended people get? That seems personal to me..... Sorry, didn't mean to get side tracked....

 

[marcus_aurelius]

Is there some reason why you think the U.S. is going to get really bad....economically speaking of course.

Civil rights violations and waging war have always been part of our past. THey are what have given us the luxuries we enjoy today. You think the reason our urban centers are so ethnically isolated are a result of civil liberties...i think the after-math of slavery and unequal rights are so apparent today that you'd have to be completely blind or closed-minded not to see it.

We're the colonialists of the 21st century. Why would you want to leave now?.....we still have the strongest military in the world....and strategically we couldnt be better off.....WAR and military might is what gives us the bargaining power to make everyone do what we say....and we enjoy the luxuries that are a result of these actions everyday.

....I think if u feared the economy was going to deteriorate drastically in the next thirty years and that docs would be paid in apples and oranges, then I can see a reason to leave....but do you think the EU will do any better, or Switzerland or wherever....seems like China would be doing better, but who wants to be a doctor there?

but anyway, this post is off topic bc she wants to move for personal reasons.

 

[PoorMD]

Is there some reason why you think the U.S. is going to get really bad....economically speaking of course.

....I think if u feared the economy was going to deteriorate drastically in the next thirty years and that docs would be paid in apples and oranges, then I can see a reason to leave....but do you think the EU will do any better, or Switzerland or wherever....seems like China would be doing better, but who wants to be a doctor there?

but anyway, this post is off topic bc she wants to move for personal reasons.

To be clear, the OP is a HE. Also, my reasons for leaving the country are strictly personal, not so much economic conditions although that is very important to me. The major reason for me is just "a fresh start" and the reality of being in a totally different part of the world, because I've had enough of this place (22 years is enough) and I'd like to see the world a bit. Oh and HELL NO im not joining the Navy Health Officers Program or whatever. Sorry, this is personal not something where I'm going to COMMIT to 30 years of Naval service just so I can see God's Green Earth before I die.

I want to leave the country, and I just wanted to see if it was possible with U.S. training.

 

[MoosePilot]

To be clear, the OP is a HE. Also, my reasons for leaving the country are strictly personal, not so much economic conditions although that is very important to me. The major reason for me is just "a fresh start" and the reality of being in a totally different part of the world, because I've had enough of this place (22 years is enough) and I'd like to see the world a bit. Oh and HELL NO im not joining the Navy Health Officers Program or whatever. Sorry, this is personal not something where I'm going to COMMIT to 30 years of Naval service just so I can see God's Green Earth before I die.

I want to leave the country, and I just wanted to see if it was possible with U.S. training.

You never have to commit to 30 years. The longest obligation I've ever heard of for one thing is for pilots and that's 10 years.

The rest of the world is surprisingly like the part I started in. I pretty much lost my taste for traveling after I traveled.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

The rest of the world is surprisingly like the part I started in. I pretty much lost my taste for traveling after I traveled.

Interesting....I had the exact opposite opinion of things and my travels have only spurred me to go to more places. Perhaps it is because of your staunch belief that America is the end all, be all place Moose?

 

[MoosePilot]

Interesting....I had the exact opposite opinion of things and my travels have only spurred me to go to more places. Perhaps it is because of your staunch belief that America is the end all, be all place Moose?

No telling. I've rarely seen anything outside the U.S. that I couldn't get somewhere inside the U.S. while saving plane fare. Those things that are unique (giant Buddha cut into a Thai cliff, Thai strip clubs, etc.) aren't that big a deal.

German Christmas market was an exception, but I'm not sure that's worth a whole trip abroad.

 

[BooMed]

Have you thought about Australia? I hear they really want docs to move there because they have a shortage. Sounds like a beautiful country too, if you don't mind being really far away from your family/friends.

 

[PoorMD]

Have you thought about Australia? I hear they really want docs to move there because they have a shortage. Sounds like a beautiful country too, if you don't mind being really far away from your family/friends.

The friends/family thing is a non-issue. I do love my parents, but my immediate family is rather frustrating and depressing (mental problems, drug addictions, general depression, awesome Thanksgiving reuinions, right?)
I understand that you can run for the rest of your life, but you can never escape from whats inside you. I don't feel like I am running, just wanted to see the coast off another ocean, feel the lifestyle of a totally different government, and see what's up with the British women, the Swiss women, whatever man. The US seems to be "foreign" to me because I just don't fit in with the whole consumerist society, the sex-craved media and the advertising.. It's all one big nightmare for me. I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know? again, women are not the major reason I am leaving just one of them.

 

[BooMed]

The friends/family thing is a non-issue. I do love my parents, but my immediate family is rather frustrating and depressing (mental problems, drug addictions, general depression, awesome Thanksgiving reuinions, right?)
I understand that you can run for the rest of your life, but you can never escape from whats inside you. I don't feel like I am running, just wanted to see the coast off another ocean, feel the lifestyle of a totally different government, and see what's up with the British women, the Swiss women, whatever man. The US seems to be "foreign" to me because I just don't fit in with the whole consumerist society, the sex-craved media and the advertising.. It's all one big nightmare for me. I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know? again, women are not the major reason I am leaving just one of them.

Well I definitely wouldn't move to another country to meet a foreign spouse (I think that idea has been very over-romanticized), but I see what you mean.

I think it's very healthy to move to another place, it would probably change your entire world view.

I have learned one thing from moving far away from home and from my friends who have lived abroad: Most likely you will be lonely and miserable for a long time after you move away, especially if you've lived near to home your whole life. However, I'm happy to report that eventually it goes away and you are better for it. 🙂

 

[mojojojo]

I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know?

So, I gather you've never been to Dublin or London... Bar & club capitals of the world, respectively.

Anyway, living in another country is fun... I attend med school in Grenada and absolutely love it. It is great to really immerse yourself into life in another country, and I would highly recommend it to anyone. It gives you great perspective on the States -- the good and the bad. I'm looking forward to going back, but I will be sad to leave.

But seriously, don't think that another country (and all of the women who live in it) could be perfect and all your problems could be solved just by moving. I'm quite certain there are one or two girls (maybe 3) in the United States who don't bar hop and cheat. Nah, probably only 2, but you can find them if you look really hard. 😉

 

[radioh3ad]

UK media is even worse than the US media in terms of sex-craved or celebrity-driven aspects. There are chavs there too. Not a good thing.

 

[trkd]

Born and raised in the U.S., I am a first year medical student, love the United States, but it's time I need to leave the country. This is for personal reasons. What are the restrictions on finishing U.S. residency, getting U.S. license, then packing up and heading for England or Switzerland?

PoorMD

Hey PoorMD, I am a US citizen studying in Australia. To do residency in AUS it will be very tough. You will probably be able to do a few post-grad years but then you might be SOL. It would be easier if you went to med school here or were a citizen. If you want to come after residency, then it might be easier IF you want to go into family medicine OR if you want to go rural. Other specialties are definitely possible but I am just saying that family practice would be easier because they are hurting for family docs. If you go rural, that becomes less of an issue because they are hurting for many specialties out there. That said, you get paid much less here so think of paying your loans before you come. With respect to going to the UK, I have heard that it is very difficult if you didn't train there (irrespective of citizenship). This is based on experience from some aussies who have thought of going there for residency.

You would probably have the most luck doing any of the following:
1. Going after residency
2. Easier if you do family practice
3. Going rural

But anything is possible. Not trying to discourage, just putting a real perspective on things. Also, please keep in mind that both AUS and the UK are under the british system and if you decide to go right after med school, you don't start residency right away. There are 2-3 years before you start specializing. This may also be a consideration when deciding to go before or after a US residency. Good luck!

 

[marcus_aurelius]

The friends/family thing is a non-issue. I do love my parents, but my immediate family is rather frustrating and depressing (mental problems, drug addictions, general depression, awesome Thanksgiving reuinions, right?)
I understand that you can run for the rest of your life, but you can never escape from whats inside you. I don't feel like I am running, just wanted to see the coast off another ocean, feel the lifestyle of a totally different government, and see what's up with the British women, the Swiss women, whatever man. The US seems to be "foreign" to me because I just don't fit in with the whole consumerist society, the sex-craved media and the advertising.. It's all one big nightmare for me. I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know? again, women are not the major reason I am leaving just one of them.

Women are women wherever you go. Some more deviant than others....all of them play games.

Until technology advances to the state where you can get a robot wife with full bodily functioning and press reset or reprogram whenever she gets unbearable, you are stuck with women being the way they are.

and besides, they're not all that bad, just incredibly annoying from time to time. you know, there are some cultures where you can boss your wife around and she might listen to more of what you say, or heck, even get a couple more wives so you can pull the quick switcharoo when one is getting a little too obnoxious.....but i think such a relationship might lack intimacy.

The family thing, well, that's tough. I've seen my own share but i think counseling might do you the most good.

Traveling would be tight if you didnt have to retrain abroad. There are places like Dubai where they are dying to get U.S. docs. You will get paid more there than here and it is tax free. Only down side is you are a second rate citizen and cant own property. But if its fun your after, you will have plenty of money and free time to enjoy the best Dubai has to offer...ie beaches, clubs, rich european girls on vacation, paid vacations etc.

 

[Perrin]

I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know? again, women are not the major reason I am leaving just one of them.

The women in the UK are different than the ones in the US. They are a lot more liberated. Most of them view sex and partying the same as guys do. If it's fun, do it. If you want to avoid whimsical bar-hopping women, the UK is one of the last places I would go. To put it bluntly UK girls are easy.

 

[PoorMD]

The women in the UK are different than the ones in the US. They are a lot more liberated. Most of them view sex and partying the same as guys do. If it's fun, do it. If you want to avoid whimsical bar-hopping women, the UK is one of the last places I would go. To put it bluntly UK girls are easy.

regardless, the women thing is not so important. I will embrace them for the humans they are, just like me.. human.. A global problem, which cannot be escaped from country to country, is the TV!! I continue to renounce the television, and it's horrid attempt to catch my eyes with their lusty women. It just makes me sick, how companies have gone from "Let's sell our fine product." to "Check out these babes, just keep watching.. yes.. watching, now, we will insert OUR SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE- Thank you, good bye . We just layed our egg in your BRAIN." or any other random product selling company. f*ck them.. I know, I know... you have that stuff everywhere ::sigh::

It just seems there is so much injustice in the world,... these commercials are just one of them. Hence I dont subscribe to any cable company, and I think anyone who is borderline frustrated with commercials and the materialization of women, you should cancel your cable too. However, if you enjoy a good episode of The Real World (or any other reality show that makes you smile for some ODD reason) then keep watching.. god this has NOTHING to do with leaving the US..

maybe it's more than just the Continent I need to be leaving.. anyone know when the next flight out of the Milky Way leaves? ...

 

[Perrin]

Sounds like you are just sick of civilization. Maybe you could spend the summer away from all the hub-bub. Try hiking the Appalachian Trail for a few months.

I understand the no tv thing. I stopped watching it back in '97 and just recently started watching the history channel and discovery health channels. My apt complex has free cable.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

regardless, the women thing is not so important. I will embrace them for the humans they are, just like me.. human.. A global problem, which cannot be escaped from country to country, is the TV!! I continue to renounce the television, and it's horrid attempt to catch my eyes with their lusty women. It just makes me sick, how companies have gone from "Let's sell our fine product." to "Check out these babes, just keep watching.. yes.. watching, now, we will insert OUR SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE- Thank you, good bye . We just layed our egg in your BRAIN." or any other random product selling company. f*ck them.. I know, I know... you have that stuff everywhere ::sigh::

It just seems there is so much injustice in the world,... these commercials are just one of them. Hence I dont subscribe to any cable company, and I think anyone who is borderline frustrated with commercials and the materialization of women, you should cancel your cable too. However, if you enjoy a good episode of The Real World (or any other reality show that makes you smile for some ODD reason) then keep watching.. god this has NOTHING to do with leaving the US..

maybe it's more than just the Continent I need to be leaving.. anyone know when the next flight out of the Milky Way leaves? ...

i love good looking girls on t.v.

enjoy it, embrace it.....

if you are trying to get away from sex, good luck, but why would u want to do that!

 

[backrow]

It just makes me sick, how companies have gone from "Let's sell our fine product." to "Check out these babes, just keep watching..

Are you a unick (spelling?) just wondering

/sarcasm

 

[Ypo.]

Women are women wherever you go. Some more deviant than others....all of them play games.

.

At least they aren't war games.

-Proximo

 

[Beau Geste]

The friends/family thing is a non-issue. I do love my parents, but my immediate family is rather frustrating and depressing (mental problems, drug addictions, general depression, awesome Thanksgiving reuinions, right?)
I understand that you can run for the rest of your life, but you can never escape from whats inside you. I don't feel like I am running, just wanted to see the coast off another ocean, feel the lifestyle of a totally different government, and see what's up with the British women, the Swiss women, whatever man. The US seems to be "foreign" to me because I just don't fit in with the whole consumerist society, the sex-craved media and the advertising.. It's all one big nightmare for me. I'd like a place like Ireland, maybe it's not so overwhelmed with the club hopping and girls cheating on their guys.. man that's only a small part of my reason to leave.. I mean, are UK girls much different than the whimsical, bar-hopping swarm of US girls? (If you can't tell, I've had trouble with US women) anyone with experience let me know? again, women are not the major reason I am leaving just one of them.

Why don't you just travel? I mean, you're only 22 for goodness sake!

And to reiterate what others have said, American women have not cornered the market on whimsy or bar-hopping by any means.

For the reasons you described, you sound like you're running from what you think is a dull life, only you may not find what you're looking for.

I do encourage everyone to see other countries, but most will find that there really is no place like home.

So, good luck in your discoveries.

 

[Beau Geste]

Are you a unick (spelling?) just wondering

/sarcasm

I think you mean eunuch?

 

[backrow]

I think you mean eunuch?

yeah, what megboo said

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I keep saying I'll become the staff doctor at some resort in the Caribbean.....that would probably pay well and the living conditions couldn't be beat.....

 

[PoorMD]

I guess I am pretty tired of this civilization, I was hoping some other pockets of humanity, maybe even beyond europe and asia, still had some semblence of honor, and kindness and not just lustfulness and deceit and the thievery that is the US advertising industry.

Is it possible that I am just sick and tired of anatomy and the entire semester is a wash after just 3 weeks and I should drop out? DAMN this blows..
euchus? huh

 

[Flopotomist]

I didn't turn it political. My statement was simply that "if things get really bad here in the US" (which they aren't "really" bad now- and example of really bad would be a certain female Senator getting elected President). Thanks Moose for assuming I'm being a pessimist by leaving my options open.

(hijack alert) I gotta ask, what is so bad about HIllary? I mean, I know the stereotypes about her - but have you read any of her actual positions? Followed her record? She is actually a pretty damn conservative Democrat - even has the New York Post supporting her now! I too was a bit skeptical about her until I actually did some homework. Of the field that I have seen bantered around for 2008, she and McCain are the two best IMHO.

She certainly would be an improvement over the current President (uhh.. 4th amendment, what is that?)

 

[MoosePilot]

(hijack alert) I gotta ask, what is so bad about HIllary? I mean, I know the stereotypes about her - but have you read any of her actual positions? Followed her record? She is actually a pretty damn conservative Democrat - even has the New York Post supporting her now! I too was a bit skeptical about her until I actually did some homework. Of the field that I have seen bantered around for 2008, she and McCain are the two best IMHO.

She certainly would be an improvement over the current President (uhh.. 4th amendment, what is that?)

I dont' think that's really her. She was radically liberal and she magically morphs into conservative? I don't think so at all. I think she's consciously revamping her image for one reason - to make a presidential bid at all possible.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Hell Floppy, Moose has you there....she's not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination......

 

[Flopotomist]

I dont' think that's really her. She was radically liberal and she magically morphs into conservative? I don't think so at all. I think she's consciously revamping her image for one reason - to make a presidential bid at all possible.

Well, I think in fairness, we should look at a candidates record of action, and not just what we "believe" to be true about the candidate. Sen Clinton has demonstrated strong leadership, a willingness to work with members of both parties, a history of voting in a very centrist fashion, and has recognized the need to do SOMETHING about our healthcare mess. If not Sen Clinton, which Democrat has a more attractive record? I am just saying, lets be fair to her... If we changed her name to Sen X and just looked at the facts, she would be a very electable President, unfortunately she has that pesky Clinton name.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That's the problem- the Democrats don't have a good candidate. As a registered Democrat, that bothers me. If McCain runs, I will vote for him.

 

[Flopotomist]

That's the problem- the Democrats don't have a good candidate. As a registered Democrat, that bothers me. If McCain runs, I will vote for him.

What specific policy issue do you base your distaste for Hillary on, or are you simply biased against her because of her name and gender?

 

[SlippingSloth]

As far as other possible candidates, I am interested in Mark Warner's chances. As it stands now, I am waiting to hear more from Warner. I watched his interview with George Stephanopoulos awhile back and was quite impressed. He is a former southern(Virginia) Democratic Governor. He left office with a 72% approval rating in a Republican controlled state. With Feingold on the Left and Warner coming from Center, I think Hillary Clinton is going to have a harder time convincing party base, read liberals, to vote for her over Feingold. And although I do not come from an early primary state, my pro-business/individual moderation are leaning towards Warner for the time being.

Any chance we will see Obama as the VP? Also, do you think Kerry and Edwards will run again both as Pres candidates?

 

[veenut]

As far as other possible candidates, I am interested in Mark Warner's chances. As it stands now, I am waiting to hear more from Warner. I watched his interview with George Stephanopoulos awhile back and was quite impressed. He is a former southern(Virginia) Democratic Governor. He left office with a 72% approval rating in a Republican controlled state. With Feingold on the Left and Warner coming from Center, I think Hillary Clinton is going to have a harder time convincing party base, read liberals, to vote for her over Feingold. And although I do not come from an early primary state, my pro-business/individual moderation are leaning towards Warner for the time being.

Any chance we will see Obama as the VP? Also, do you think Kerry and Edwards will run again both as Pres candidates?

warner is a potentially solid candidate, but he has nowhere near the national exposure yet that he would need. hopefully, that will change by primary time.

 

[indo]

Born and raised in the U.S., I am a first year medical student, love the United States, but it's time I need to leave the country. This is for personal reasons. What are the restrictions on finishing U.S. residency, getting U.S. license, then packing up and heading for England or Switzerland?

PoorMD

Ya know, if you are hiding from the mafia it isn't smart to post this type of stuff on the internet.

 

[Beau Geste]

As far as other possible candidates, I am interested in Mark Warner's chances. As it stands now, I am waiting to hear more from Warner. I watched his interview with George Stephanopoulos awhile back and was quite impressed. He is a former southern(Virginia) Democratic Governor. He left office with a 72% approval rating in a Republican controlled state. With Feingold on the Left and Warner coming from Center, I think Hillary Clinton is going to have a harder time convincing party base, read liberals, to vote for her over Feingold. And although I do not come from an early primary state, my pro-business/individual moderation are leaning towards Warner for the time being.

Any chance we will see Obama as the VP? Also, do you think Kerry and Edwards will run again both as Pres candidates?

***shudder***

Obama, Kerry, Edwards, oh my! 👎

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

Back to the OP's question.

I've had a lot of PMs lately from US trained/training MDs who want to practice in UK. I'm going to throw up a website with advice on how to do it ("first aid for UK residency training" - I'll be rich I tell you, rich! )

In the meanwhile you could check out my posts in the UK forum - highlights are:

a) Come sooner rather than later. US residency training won't count for much over here* so you are better coming straight after medical school and getting into the system early.

b) Debt is a b'atch. UK salaries are reasonable (30-60K pounds during training, = 55-110K dollars, and 60-120K pounds when fully trained =110-220K dollars) but might not be enough to service massive US loans - especially given higher cost of UK living (think US big city prices rather than midwest).

c) Training is longer (but hours are shorter and pay, as above, is better). 5-9 yrs postgrad training rather than the 3-7 typical in US. You'll work less hours during this training though (<60hrs) and be paid much better (55K dollars as a intern is about standard).

d) You'll face some hurdles. People are mean to FMGs everywhere. (For reference= The stereotypes of US MDs are: no bedside clinical skills, over reliance on expensive tests, ordering shotgun hundreds of, rather than focused, investigations and unmerited arrogance. In my experience about as true as every FMG doctor in US being rude, having poor judgement or being unable to speak English - ie: not so much.). You get over this and if you are a good doctor people will respect you no matter where you went to school (just don't expect it to open doors for you).

e) The best place to look for PGY1 jobs is BMJ.com jobs site or via the "deaneries" themselves. (training positions organised on regional level rather than by individual hospitals or universities). a list can be found here:
http://www.mmc.nhs.uk/pages/deaneries

Good luck - the UK is a great place to do medicine and a lovely place to live. You might want to consider doing a summer elective here to see how you like it before you make any life changing decisions though 😉

All the best,


W4G,


*not a reflection of US training standards just of the fact that the systems don't mesh well.

 

[MoosePilot]

Well, I think in fairness, we should look at a candidates record of action, and not just what we "believe" to be true about the candidate. Sen Clinton has demonstrated strong leadership, a willingness to work with members of both parties, a history of voting in a very centrist fashion, and has recognized the need to do SOMETHING about our healthcare mess. If not Sen Clinton, which Democrat has a more attractive record? I am just saying, lets be fair to her... If we changed her name to Sen X and just looked at the facts, she would be a very electable President, unfortunately she has that pesky Clinton name.

Ok, let's look at her history. What are her ties to New York again? So why did she end up there? What was she like as first lady?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Personally I liked her husband but I don't think she's a good person because of her attitude and her voiced opinions. That's grounds enough for me to not like her. Do I have to have some specific reason to not like her? How about the fact that she's a militant cu.....uh, nevermind.....