half the class in med school are on SSRI?

[Shejeboshease]

is it true during the first two years of med school? no wonder they are doing so much better than i am?

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[FrickenhugeMD]

Doubtful. School is stressful but I know of no one on anti-depressants, but I guess its not something many people make public

 

[greatnt249]

is it true during the first two years of med school? no wonder they are doing so much better than i am?

You think antidepressants are giving your classmates an edge...on being happy?

 

[Laryngophed]

You think antidepressants are giving your classmates an edge...on being happy?

Some SSRIs and the SNRIs are being used in place of stimulants for ADD IIRC.

 

[monback5555]

Well, my pharm teacher said SSRIs make depressed ppl feel better, and don't do anything for ppl who aren't depressed, but maybe he was a liar.

 

[turkeyjerky]

I've always heard that 50% are on some sort of psychotropic medication at some point during the 4 years of med school.

 

[J ROD]

I would hope not. I would have guessed ADHD drugs like Ritalin.

Personally, I think you just need to handle it better before running to the pill bottle.

 

[CCLCMer]

is it true during the first two years of med school? no wonder they are doing so much better than i am?

It's tough to say, but I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if that were true. Med school is very stressful, and people who come in already having a biological tendency for depression can get worse when they're in the pressure cooker. Along with depression, med students are also at risk of problems like substance abuse, anxiety, and eating disorders. It's enough of a concern that many (maybe all?) medical schools have counseling and other support services to help students who are struggling with psychiatric illnesses. The important thing is that if you recognize that you may be depressed (or if your friends tell you they think you may be depressed), you can and should get help.

 

[MossPoh]

I don't think people have the sustained unhappiness that is really needed for SSRI. At my school at least, there is a noticeable wave with stress. It gradually increases every week until the exam week is very stressful and students are noticeably depressed, but then it goes back to light and cheery about 3 hours after the exam is done. I think de-stressors are far more important than instantly jumping to some kind of drug.

 

[SirGecko]

This thread is interesting. I doubt many people at my school are on anything and the folks that are would only be on prescriptions anyway. I don't think most people at my school stress out that much. Maybe we will start doing it when we get to MSII year but right now at least I don't get a very stressed vibe from anyone.

 

[J ROD]

This thread is interesting. I doubt many people at my school are on anything and the folks that are would only be on prescriptions anyway. I don't think most people at my school stress out that much. Maybe we will start doing it when we get to MSII year but right now at least I don't get a very stressed vibe from anyone.

Dont be surprised by what goes on in the privacy of peoples' homes....

I didnt think many in my pharm class where on (ritalin or its cousins) until one got busted by "the man".

At least, I know how they can study for hours on end now!!

 

[turkeyjerky]

This thread is interesting. I doubt many people at my school are on anything and the folks that are would only be on prescriptions anyway. I don't think most people at my school stress out that much. Maybe we will start doing it when we get to MSII year but right now at least I don't get a very stressed vibe from anyone.

Prolly cause they're already on benzos

 

[J ROD]

Might be time for a piss test!!

 

[SirGecko]

Might be time for a piss test!!

Actually that's why I'd be surprised if someone was on something, unless they had a prescription. We get wiz quizzed ever six months. (military and such) Of course we are hardly the norm as I don't think I've ever heard of a civilian school doing drug testing.

 

[J ROD]

Actually that's why I'd be surprised if someone was on something, unless they had a prescription. We get wiz quizzed ever six months. (military and such) Of course we are hardly the norm as I don't think I've ever heard of a civilian school doing drug testing.

well, being military, is something totally different.

norm med folks arent getting this and perhaps they should be.....

 

[njbmd]

is it true during the first two years of med school? no wonder they are doing so much better than i am?

My class was on Diet Mountain Dew. If you "do the Dew" you will get an edge. Cheap and effective.

 

[J ROD]

My class was on Diet Mountain Dew. If you "do the Dew" you will get an edge. Cheap and effective.

I drink more Mountain Dew that I would like to admit. I am actually addicted to it. I cant stop....I have tried many times.

I could care a less about alcohol or smoking or drugs....I just want my "Dew",

The Diet tastes like piss. I got sick off of drinking less than half a bottle.

I wish it did not have so many calories....😳

 

[totallyrad]

I think it is an admirable quality to find within yourself the motivation, focus, and balance to succeed in med school without becoming addicted to caffeine or other stimulants. There are many students in my class who have weaned themselves off of caffeine even during med school (while the vast majority continue to be enslaved by the addiction).

I honestly believe my academic performance is at a higher level than if I were drinking coffee to get me going every day. As a future radiologist, many have told me I "need to learn how to drink coffee." No, I don't. It's not a necessary evil.

 

[AVNRT]

I would be surprised if the number were that high... 😱

 

[njbmd]

I drink more Mountain Dew that I would like to admit. I am actually addicted to it. I cant stop....I have tried many times.

I could care a less about alcohol or smoking or drugs....I just want my "Dew",

The Diet tastes like piss. I got sick off of drinking less than half a bottle.

I wish it did not have so many calories....😳

How do you KNOW the above (see bold)? Did you sip your own or ask for donations for your tasting pleasure? 😱

In any event, Mountain Dew has an interesting flavor. I am at an loss to tell what that flavor would be? I do know that most of my classmates didn't drink coffee but headed for the vending area where an entire machine contained only Mountain Dew.

 

[Nanon]

How do you KNOW the above (see bold)? Did you sip your own or ask for donations for your tasting pleasure? 😱

In any event, Mountain Dew has an interesting flavor. I am at an loss to tell what that flavor would be? I do know that most of my classmates didn't drink coffee but headed for the vending area where an entire machine contained only Mountain Dew.

 

[J ROD]

How do you KNOW the above (see bold)? Did you sip your own or ask for donations for your tasting pleasure? 😱

There was an incident once...

 

[J ROD]

I would love that machine in my house....I have thought about getting the Pepsi truck to just make a delivery to my house and save my the trouble.

Plus, I could save money buying in bulk.....😉

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I know you guys don't intend any harm, but I think you're being far too glib with the comments about "tough it out before you reach for the bottle." There are some severely depressed M1s posting right now - haven't you noticed? Not all of them need drugs, but a few do... and I think they deserve support.

I've become a lot more open about the fact that I took SNRIs for several months during my first two years. I had an old panic disorder that hadn't given me trouble for years come roaring back once I started med school. Had I not gotten some help, I would have dropped out of medical school - I had lost 40 lbs and was either shivering or sweating constantly. Once I had a semester or two under my belt, I no longer needed meds and weaned off them. I've been fine ever since.

I was quoted the exact same figure of "50% of your class is on some kind of medication" during first year - but that came to me straight from the student clinic clinicians. Not everyone was on an SSRI - some were taking hydroxyzine to help manage stress (benzos were only a last resort). I would certainly agree that "normal" stresses of daily life don't necessarily need medication, but adjusting to medical school - for some people, not all - is probably one of the most extraordinarily stressful periods they'll ever experience. If you're experiencing unremitting misery and stress - I say, give the meds a try. The weeks that I tried to "tough it out" were so ugly that I try not to think about it - and "toughing it out" accomplished exactly nothing.

Don't mean to fire any shots at anybody, just wanted to post a different viewpoint. I worry about some of these M1 pups who are having a very hard time right now in mid-first semester.

 

[fMRI]

Well, my pharm teacher said SSRIs make depressed ppl feel better, and don't do anything for ppl who aren't depressed, but maybe he was a liar.

I don't think this is fully accurate: while they might not have a benefit, they can still mess up your sex life. No sex life, more time for studying! That's probably how this works... 😉

 

[basupran]

50% of med students taking SSRIs seems a little high. I would say that 50%, probably more like 75%, turn to some drug at some point during medical school. Med school is a different animal that outsiders can't understand.

 

[Parietal Lobe]

I know you guys don't intend any harm, but I think you're being far too glib with the comments about "tough it out before you reach for the bottle." There are some severely depressed M1s posting right now - haven't you noticed? Not all of them need drugs, but a few do... and I think they deserve support.

I've become a lot more open about the fact that I took SNRIs for several months during my first two years. I had an old panic disorder that hadn't given me trouble for years come roaring back once I started med school. Had I not gotten some help, I would have dropped out of medical school - I had lost 40 lbs and was either shivering or sweating constantly. Once I had a semester or two under my belt, I no longer needed meds and weaned off them. I've been fine ever since.

I was quoted the exact same figure of "50% of your class is on some kind of medication" during first year - but that came to me straight from the student clinic clinicians. Not everyone was on an SSRI - some were taking hydroxyzine to help manage stress (benzos were only a last resort). I would certainly agree that "normal" stresses of daily life don't necessarily need medication, but adjusting to medical school - for some people, not all - is probably one of the most extraordinarily stressful periods they'll ever experience. If you're experiencing unremitting misery and stress - I say, give the meds a try. The weeks that I tried to "tough it out" were so ugly that I try not to think about it - and "toughing it out" accomplished exactly nothing.

Don't mean to fire any shots at anybody, just wanted to post a different viewpoint. I worry about some of these M1 pups who are having a very hard time right now in mid-first semester.

Thank you. I'm so miserable right now. I think about dropping out every single day. It's so bad that I can't even study because everytime I do, I keep thinking that I'd rather be doing anything else. And so now I'm failing which only makes me feel like a bigger failure. I don't know how to do this and everyone else does. I think I'm going to see our on site counselors.

 

[J ROD]

Thank you. I'm so miserable right now. I think about dropping out every single day. It's so bad that I can't even study because everytime I do, I keep thinking that I'd rather be doing anything else. And so now I'm failing which only makes me feel like a bigger failure. I don't know how to do this and everyone else does. I think I'm going to see our on site counselors.

Please see someone soon....you sound like you need help!! 🙂

 

[MexicanDr]

So several people have mentioned that "the bottle" should be a last resort. Depression really doesnt hit you from one day to the other, its a prolonged state that in many cases can get worse.

So, if someone is feeling those unwanted feelings of depression/anxiety early enough, how would you handle all of these without reaching for the bottle? How do you guys manage/prevent getting to the prescription stage?

 

[J ROD]

So several people have mentioned that "the bottle" should be a last resort. Depression really doesnt hit you from one day to the other, its a prolonged state that in many cases can get worse.

So, if someone is feeling those unwanted feelings of depression/anxiety early enough, how would you handle all of these without reaching for the bottle? How do you guys manage/prevent getting to the prescription stage?

Coping skills can be tried....

 

[da8s0859q]

I know you guys don't intend any harm, but I think you're being far too glib with the comments about "tough it out before you reach for the bottle."

I'm with Tulsa here. After all, it's all relative. I guess the unfortunate fact of the matter is that the whole medical school thing is easier on some people than others; for the latter group, I see no reason why they shouldn't do whatever it is they need to do to find some enjoyment or smoother sailing in these fleeting four years. Lord knows I think I could stand to benefit from 'em from time to time myself, and I know I see several classmates whose song and dance in lecture betrays the fact that they're having quite a rough time with all this.

 

[WaterBird]

I'm with Tulsa here. After all, it's all relative. I guess the unfortunate fact of the matter is that the whole medical school thing is easier on some people than others; for the latter group, I see no reason why they shouldn't do whatever it is they need to do to find some enjoyment or smoother sailing in these fleeting four years. Lord knows I think I could stand to benefit from 'em from time to time myself, and I know I see several classmates whose song and dance in lecture betrays the fact that they're having quite a rough time with all this.

Agreed. You also don't know what else is going on in someone's life. I know I have at least a few classmates for whom medical school is not their greatest stressor. And then add medical school in to the mix.....

This 50% number on SSRIs seems bogus to me though - the origin is a student health counselor, who may have been trying to de-stigmatize meds (although I think suggesting everyone is on 'em in someways increases resistance because it suggests that that's something people do lightly). Who knows if that's based on a real study or based on people who seek out counseling or what medications it includes etc.

 

[da8s0859q]

I know I have at least a few classmates for whom medical school is not their greatest stressor. And then add medical school in to the mix.....

Yep... that's me and at least a few people I know from my school. Med school would be just fine -- well, relatively -- if not for all the nonsense outside of it sometimes.

 

[meister]

It's a little sad that so many health professionals are so glib about psychiatric medications.

 

[indo]

I know you guys don't intend any harm, but I think you're being far too glib with the comments about "tough it out before you reach for the bottle." There are some severely depressed M1s posting right now - haven't you noticed? Not all of them need drugs, but a few do... and I think they deserve support.

glib?

 

[J ROD]

glib?

 

[phospho]

I know you guys don't intend any harm, but I think you're being far too glib with the comments about "tough it out before you reach for the bottle." There are some severely depressed M1s posting right now - haven't you noticed? Not all of them need drugs, but a few do... and I think they deserve support.

I've become a lot more open about the fact that I took SNRIs for several months during my first two years. I had an old panic disorder that hadn't given me trouble for years come roaring back once I started med school. Had I not gotten some help, I would have dropped out of medical school - I had lost 40 lbs and was either shivering or sweating constantly. Once I had a semester or two under my belt, I no longer needed meds and weaned off them. I've been fine ever since.

I was quoted the exact same figure of "50% of your class is on some kind of medication" during first year - but that came to me straight from the student clinic clinicians. Not everyone was on an SSRI - some were taking hydroxyzine to help manage stress (benzos were only a last resort). I would certainly agree that "normal" stresses of daily life don't necessarily need medication, but adjusting to medical school - for some people, not all - is probably one of the most extraordinarily stressful periods they'll ever experience. If you're experiencing unremitting misery and stress - I say, give the meds a try. The weeks that I tried to "tough it out" were so ugly that I try not to think about it - and "toughing it out" accomplished exactly nothing.

Don't mean to fire any shots at anybody, just wanted to post a different viewpoint. I worry about some of these M1 pups who are having a very hard time right now in mid-first semester.

I've probably read every single post you've written here on SDN... (lol, pretty creepy, right?)

I can't even begin to tell you how helpful they've been. Thank you for that!

In some weird way, everything that has happened to you since you started medical school has been happening to me right now. Even the little things. I look at your really old posts, and I'm thinking to myself "this is exactly where I'm at".

 

[richse]

I know some people with Modafinil prescriptions and I would think that gives a much bigger advantage than any SSRI.

 

[greatnt249]

It's a little sad that so many health professionals are so glib about psychiatric medications.

Probably because they, like Tom Cruise, know the TRUTH behind psychiatry.

But seriously, I agree that many need some sort of help dealing with the stresses of education and are not taking them in an effort to gain an advantage over others in the classroom.

 

[da8s0859q]

I know some people with Modafinil prescriptions and I would think that gives a much bigger advantage than any SSRI.

Well, at least from my point of view, we're talking about two very different kinds of people. I suspect that many of the people taking SSRIs do so for reasons other than why you'd expect someone to take something like Provigil.

 

[J ROD]

Well, at least from my point of view, we're talking about two very different kinds of people. I suspect that many of the people taking SSRIs do so for reasons other than why you'd expect someone to take something like Provigil.

👍

 

[Old Grunt]

It's a little sad that so many health professionals are so glib about psychiatric medications.

That's what I was going to say, except amend "health professionals" to "future health professionals".

If someone feels like they are sinking, they should feel like they can get the help the need without being castigated by their classmates.

Also, I think someone else pointed this out, but SSRIs are also the main indication for chronic anxiety, not benzos. You shouldn't assume someone is depressed because they are on an SSRI.

(As always, if I am wrong, feel free to correct me).

 

[dienekes88]

If it's true, then I think the following question has to be brought up. Why is it that this generation is so overwhelmed, depressed, and anxious that it needs help?

Is medical school today so much harder than it was 20 years ago? I find that hard to believe given that many schools have gone to pass/fail or H/P/F. On top of that, the internet, computers, videotaped lectures, LOADS of board review books... have all made information more accessible and more condensed.

The people who are suffering really are suffering, but what about society/medical training has resulted in this change?

 

[PSUtoMD]

If it's true, then I think the following question has to be brought up. Why is it that this generation is so overwhelmed, depressed, and anxious that it needs help?

Is medical school today so much harder than it was 20 years ago? I find that hard to believe given that many schools have gone to pass/fail or H/P/F. On top of that, the internet, computers, videotaped lectures, LOADS of board review books... have all made information more accessible and more condensed.

This clearly only touches on part of the matter, but there's a hell of a lot more information to know these days compared to several decades ago. But still taught in 4 short years. Just saying.

 

[engineeredout]

Half the class is in the bottom 50% - no wonder they're on antidepressants.

 

[dienekes88]

This clearly only touches on part of the matter, but there's a hell of a lot more information to know these days compared to several decades ago. But still taught in 4 short years. Just saying.

Not 100% sure about that. There may be grossly more information to know. However, maybe they had to know the information in greater detail. The number of topics is just one dimension... the depth of knowledge required in each topic is a second dimension to think about.

In a pass/fail system or H/P/F, the only thing that is necessary is to create a test with high sensitivity: everyone who knows the material passes, though some who don't know the material still pass. In a graded system, there's more of an emphasis on stratifying the class and developing a test that can determine the differences between people.

 

[PSUtoMD]

In a pass/fail system or H/P/F, the only thing that is necessary is to create a test with high sensitivity: everyone who knows the material passes, though some who don't know the material still pass. In a graded system, there's more of an emphasis on stratifying the class and developing a test that can determine the differences between people.

People are still stratified at most Pass/Fail schools (or those silly "Honors/High Pass/Sort of High Pass/Less High Pass/Middle Pass/Low Pass/Fail" schools).

 

[Old Grunt]

If it's true, then I think the following question has to be brought up. Why is it that this generation is so overwhelmed, depressed, and anxious that it needs help?

Is medical school today so much harder than it was 20 years ago? I find that hard to believe given that many schools have gone to pass/fail or H/P/F. On top of that, the internet, computers, videotaped lectures, LOADS of board review books... have all made information more accessible and more condensed.

The people who are suffering really are suffering, but what about society/medical training has resulted in this change?

A lot of it, IMO, is the fact that a lot of the stigma behind psychiatric conditions has been removed.

Case in point on this: combat soldiers. It used to be that if a soldier was on an SSRI, TCA, or benzo, they were "red-flagged" and not allowed to carry a weapon. Now, if the Army did that, they wouldn't have any trigger pullers, as an high rate (20% if I remember correctly from the time article) of soldiers are on these medications while in the field.

So, if a hard-nosed organization like the Army is willing to recognize this problem, it's safe to say society at large is as well.

I think it's silly to assume that students that are on SSRIs/benzos are faking their troubles to get a competitive edge (I might buy it with Ritalin), and the OPs blurb seems like sour grapes over their own performance issues.

 

[dienekes88]

A lot of it, IMO, is the fact that a lot of the stigma behind psychiatric conditions has been removed.

Case in point on this: combat soldiers. It used to be that if a soldier was on an SSRI, TCA, or benzo, they were "red-flagged" and not allowed to carry a weapon. Now, if the Army did that, they wouldn't have any trigger pullers, as an high rate (20% if I remember correctly from the time article) of soldiers are on these medications while in the field.

So, if a hard-nosed organization like the Army is willing to recognize this problem, it's safe to say society at large is as well.

I think it's silly to assume that students that are on SSRIs/benzos are faking their troubles to get a competitive edge (I might buy it with Ritalin), and the OPs blurb seems like sour grapes over their own performance issues.

I agree with a lot of this. However, it seems that if it were only an increase in the diagnosis of depression/anxiety and not an increase in incidence, then the med school drop out rate back then would've been insanely high (would like to see figures on this, a very quick google scholar search didn't produce anything).

As far as I can tell, there has also been a crackdown on scut and abuse leading to a better learning environment.

Not entirely sure where I'm going with this, though.

People are still stratified at most Pass/Fail schools (or those silly "Honors/High Pass/Sort of High Pass/Less High Pass/Middle Pass/Low Pass/Fail" schools).

The administration told us (multiple times) that there's no secret ranking, and I was under the impression that a lot of the H/P/F and P/F schools only do a quartile thing. The reduces the precision required on the exams. It's the difference between determining someone's quartile ranking vs. someone's individual ranking. There's stratification, but not as strict as might have been done in the past. I could easily be wrong. This is just the sense I get from hearing attendings talk about med school and browsing SDN.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I've probably read every single post you've written here on SDN... (lol, pretty creepy, right?)

I can't even begin to tell you how helpful they've been. Thank you for that!

In some weird way, everything that has happened to you since you started medical school has been happening to me right now. Even the little things. I look at your really old posts, and I'm thinking to myself "this is exactly where I'm at".

What a nice post - that's really kind - thank you. Sometimes I know that my experiences have been a lot different in medical school because I'm an ancient non-trad - but I think a lot of things are universal. I've tried to be very honest about what happened to me in medical school not because I want to advertise my private life, but because I hope that sometimes something I write will help somebody else to get through this experience with a little less pain. You've absolutely made my day. 🙂