Handgun selection 101 questions

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👍👍 Rather expensive subcompact but Walther makes some nice small guns. Did you look at the Walther PK380? The PK380 sells for $350 or so while the P99 is more expensive (around $570)


http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/9149-walther-p99-review.html

I insist that anyone who is considering a .380 "because I can toss it in my pocket" to check out the kahr PM9. While my above post discusses the lack of advantages of 40 over 9mm, there is a significant difference between 9mm and .380.

Please, before you buy a 380, check out the kahr PM9
pm92.jpg
 
I have been thinking about a pocket gun recently, because as much as I love the Sig P229 I got, sometimes it is a pain in the neck to carry because it requires I use a gun belt and slightly thicker clothing in the Memphis heat.

Just the other day (Wednesday), one of my colleagues recommended the Kahr PM9 also. He says it carries 6+1, is easy to slip into a pocket, and is reliable.

Do you have any experience with it?

I insist that anyone who is considering a .380 "because I can toss it in my pocket" to check out the kahr PM9. While my above post discusses the lack of advantages of 40 over 9mm, there is a significant difference between 9mm and .380.

Please, before you buy a 380, check out the kahr PM9
 
Come on Mike, you know you love these discussions.

Anyway I started this thread before I had much knowledge of my own and was listening to what my instructors told me. I have taken the level 2 course since then, and am planning on going for level 3 (out of 5). Still, I love the Sig P229 in .40 that I have.

I can't believe I'm getting involved in another gun thread here lol

Anyhow, the bolded is absolutely not true. Ballistic tables, ATK testing, and real world results show that .40 is really not that much better than 9mm. With that being said, if both rounds are essentially equal, I go with the one with higher mag capacity, and lower recoil for faster followup shots.

The .40S&W round evolved like this. The FBI created the 10mm round (who knows why) that was a freaking mankiller. the case/bullet overall length was as long as a .45 with velocities and muzzle energy that far exceeded much of the other rounds on the market at the time. The problem, .45/10mm grip frames are large, and 10mm guns are uncomfortable to shoot for many shooters. The "solution" was to take a 10mm case, shorten it, put less powder in it, and call it a .40.. They still tried to tout it as "the power of a .45 with the capacity and recoil of a 9mm", it is none of these things.

/soapbox
 
I have been thinking about a pocket gun recently, because as much as I love the Sig P229 I got, sometimes it is a pain in the neck to carry because it requires I use a gun belt and slightly thicker clothing in the Memphis heat.

Just the other day (Wednesday), one of my colleagues recommended the Kahr PM9 also. He says it carries 6+1, is easy to slip into a pocket, and is reliable.

Do you have any experience with it?

Yep, the pistol in the pic is my gun. It is my on duty backup in a vest holster (part-time cop) and I carry it in the super hot months or when I'm lazy/bloated I'll toss it in an IWB holster and never know it's there for the rest of the day. It is slightly bulky for pocket carry, but very doable.

PM9 comes with a 6 round flush mag (pictured) and a 7 round extended mag with pinky extension. It does take a solid 200-300 round break in period, and while most gun manufacturers recommend this, the little Kahr actually does need it. A lot will change after the springs loosen up and everything falls into it's proper place..

Come on Mike, you know you love these discussions.

Anyway I started this thread before I had much knowledge of my own and was listening to what my instructors told me. I have taken the level 2 course since then, and am planning on going for level 3 (out of 5). Still, I love the Sig P229 in .40 that I have.

Oh there's nothing wrong with .40, it's just important to recognize that it's NOT the end-all be-all round and it's not leaps and bounds over the 9mm as some people like to believe.

I have owned a P229 in .40 and I never cared for it, aside from being heavy, my hands are slightly too small for it. Sitting on a range, adjusting my grip, I could get a good grip and shoot well. Unfortunately, drawing from a duty holster under stress, I never could get proper trigger contact and my shooting was sloppier than I prefer.

I recently went from an M&P9 for a duty weapon to a Generation 4 Glock 19 and I couldn't possibly be happier. The glock is a lighter, more compact weapon with legendary reliability. People love to do torture tests involving tens of thousands of rounds without cleaning their glocks, which tells me that the meticulous care I take of my guns will allow them to run a lifetime.

mikeg192.jpg


So I bought that, then decided to totally ditch M&P, sold my last M&P and bought a Glock 26 to compliment it

g19g26.jpg


I've not carried the G26, but I find carrying the G19 to be actually more comfortable than my M&P9 and M&P9c, and I'm not really sure why that is <shrug>
 
I've not carried the G26, but I find carrying the G19 to be actually more comfortable than my M&P9 and M&P9c, and I'm not really sure why that is <shrug>

I carry the 19 and my wife has the 26. Often I will carry her 26 and while I like it for concealment purposes, I prefer shooting my 19. I might carry others but dont think I will ever move far away from my Glock 19, I love it.
 
I carry Glock 26 daily with the Crossbreed Supertuck holster. Perfect combo.

Combine the Glock 26 with 127 gr Gold Dot HP ammo and you have all the stopping power needed as long as you're accurate.

*note: Added bonus of the Crossbreed holster is it fits the 17 and the 19 too, so in the winter with thicker clothing and all, I can carry either my 17.
 
Most hospitals do post the sign preventing the carry of concealed handguns, etc. Technically, that even would prohibit me, when off-duty, from doing so too, but it's concealed so 1) they won't notice and 2) if they call the cops they're just calling people I work with so they're not going to do anything. 😛

That's how AR works? I would think that off-duty LEOs would be a different story. I know here in TX, hospitals aren't privileged sites as far as CHLers are concerned, but a lot of them resort to posting the "official" anti-carry sign.

Does anyone have any decent single-stack recommendations? I usually carry a Glock 23, but I wouldn't mind something a little slimmer.
 
That's how AR works? I would think that off-duty LEOs would be a different story. I know here in TX, hospitals aren't privileged sites as far as CHLers are concerned, but a lot of them resort to posting the "official" anti-carry sign.

Does anyone have any decent single-stack recommendations? I usually carry a Glock 23, but I wouldn't mind something a little slimmer.

Kahr makes the PM9, P9, and CW9 (among other things) all good choices
Keltec PF-9

Some people like the walther PPS, I don't like the mag release and I think it's ugly..
 
Does anyone have any decent single-stack recommendations? I usually carry a Glock 23, but I wouldn't mind something a little slimmer.

1911 all the way. I own Glocks, Sigs, IMIs, SWs, and a Beretta in addition to two 1911s. I've carried just about all of them at some point, but when it comes to conceal carry, I almost always carry the 1911 with a Milt Sparks VM2 inside the waist band holster. Occasionally I'll carry my Sig Sauer p229 in the same model holster, but the 1911 is much more comfortable due to it's slim single-stack design. Plus, I'm a big fan of .45 ACP round. John Browning designed the .45 ACP in 1904 to take down horses in calvary warfare; thus, it's well-suited for it's man-stopping uses and you don't have to worry about over penetration. The round enters, remains within the intended target, thus transferring all of its ballistic energy to your attacker. Browning concurrently designed the predecessor to the 1911, the 1905 specifically for the .45 ACP round. It's hard to argue with the design and function of a firearm that has been around for 99 years and still widely used. If you decide to purchase a 1911 for conceal carry, I recommend the commander model (4.25" barrel as opposed to the standard 5"). It's more concealable and I notice no difference in accuracy between my full size 1911 and my 4.25" model. Also, the holster makes a huge difference in comfort. I've gone through 4 different holsters before landing upon the Milt Sparks line. You'll have to wait about 4-6 months to receive your holster (they're made to order and handmade) but it's definitely worth it. (MiltSparks.com)
 
How do you know what gun to buy? Great question. You could ask Uncle Bubba, the dude at the gun shop counter, or the guy down the street who plinks beer cans on the weekend.

The right way, however, is to try to glean the opinions of respected national level trainers (such as Todd Green, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, etc.) who get to see high volume shooting through a lot of different guns. These people work with federal law enforcement agencies, defense contractors, SWAT teams, etc, and get to see and hear first hand what works and what does not. Some of these individuals are familiar with the results of large scale law enforcement trials as well.

Additionally, look at what law enforcement agencies that procure their guns through competitive trials use. You will see mostly Glocks, M&P's, Sigs, and H&K's. That is called a clue.

The consensus right now seems to be that your best bets are the M&P, 9mm Glocks, and the H&K P30/HK45 series. These guns typically survive high round count classes and have done very well in competitive law enforcement trials. I personally prefer the M&P series (which greatly benefits from a drop-in Apex trigger set) as being the best for the money. I find Glocks to be a bit less shootable than the M&P (more recoil, longer for the sights to fall back to zero) and I have a more difficult time getting a good grip quickly. That said, the Glock is still a great shooter and if it fits your hand well it is a great choice. H&K's are expensive. Sig's quality control is currently in the toilet, but lightly used older Sigs are great too.

1911's are great shooters, but are complex guns with very tight tolerances. They need a lot of maintenance to stay reliable (if you actually train with it regularly), and unless you are an enthusiast who is competent at doing a lot of repair and refitting yourself you would probably be better served elsewhere.

For more detailed information check out m4carbine.net, lightfighter.net, and tacticalforums.com.

I strongly urge people to stay away from .40. Although it was not the case 20 years ago, the performance gap between 9mm and .40 with the best defensive ammo in 2010 is pretty much limited to shooting through boundaries such as laminated glass and car doors. My control, split times, gun wear, and wallet all suffer badly with the .40. The benefits simply do not outweigh the costs. Come to think of it, there is little difference these days between the major service calibers (unless you are shooting through boundaries). Ideas like 'energy transfer' and 'hydrostatic shock' are old wives tails. There are only two variables with handgun bullets, because *no* handgun bullet travels fast enough to overcome the elasticity of tissue: penetration and expansion. The damage done by a handgun bullet is simply whatever tissue is destroyed along its flight path. This is very insightful: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44227
 
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Sig's quality control is currently in the toilet, but lightly used older Sigs are great too.

My Sig 220 (built ~3 years ago in the US, not Germany) had some problems. Apparently Sig had a bunch of issues with lousy internal extractors about that time, and I consistently had FTE/FTF stops with the last round in a magazine.

Sent it off to Sig and they adjusted the extractor (under warranty) and it's been perfect for about 2K rounds now.

Supposedly their QC on the US-built guns has improved the last couple years. The 220 is my favorite handgun but if I had it to do over again I'd get a lightly used older German-made one.

Looking at a 226 now ...
 
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