Hard Science Masters vs. Post-bacc

[BiOGoly]

I know there have been other posts on this subject previously, but none of them seemed to answer the question to my satisfaction. Is an "enhancement" post-bacc (drexel, georgetown, etc..) really anymore impressive than a thesis masters degree in a hard science (say biochem/molecular bio)? I have recently been having a hard time deciding which pathway would be the better choice.

For me the problem with most of the post-bacc programs is that you are paying BIG BUCKS to bust your ass with not much to show in return (non-thesis special masters, certificate, etc..). Whereas, with a "real" masters degree you have demonstrated the ablity to handle high level science course work and also have gained research experience and produced a graduate thesis. Many masters programs also offer free tuition for graduate teaching fellows, an option not available in formal post-bacc programs.

I understand that a getting a masters degree in biochemistry isn't the same thing as say taking a full first year of med school a la Georgetown in terms of "proving" yourself to an adcom, but on the other hand isn't first year performance what the MCAT is supposed to predict?

I guess what i'm looking for is people who have considered or pursued either option (gotten a science masters or went post-bac) and could perhaps comment a little on their admissions experiences.
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For the record I am probably a typical "enhancement" post-bac case. I received some poor grades my first few years of college, grew up, turned around, and have spent the last 2 years taking full loads of pre-med and upper div. bio while maintaining an A avg. I will graduate with biology and psych degrees next spring. I have pushed my gpa from a rock bottom 2.5 to a 3.2 in that time, but due to the enormous amount of credit hours i've accumulated I don't think it's possible for me to increase it much past a B+ in any case. This is one reason i am leaning towards a masters program...plus i love science and am interested in research anyway...but i guess the bottom line as they say is getting that seat in M1.

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[Dre1207]

i just did a postbacc program and i was successful! Let me share some pearls of wisdom with you that i received from admissions directors at UCLA and UCI. I

ts better to go with a postbacc because your newgrades in a postbacc are going to go under your undergraduate gpa...if you do a masters, then it will go under a separate catagory on your amcas...When schools screen your gpa (yes, the really do this with computers) they screen according to undergrad gpa. So even if you kick ass in a masters, its not gonna matter because no one will have seen it until an actual person really looks at your application. When this happens, its usually during the secondary stage of the application.

So..good luck to you!

 

[SonGoku]

To the OP, I found myself in a similar situation about a year ago, so I went and asked the admissions director at my school. He told me that given my low undergrad GPA (2.9), I needed to get a second degree and kick some *ss on the MCAT. He said a masters or a non-degree seeking post-bacc was not something that would help me. I was told to take upper-division science classes only and nail them. I know some of those programs at GW, Drexel, etc. are really nice. Some even guarantee interviews at their schools if you meet certain requirements, but I honestly couldn't afford it. So getting a 2nd degree at my school was the best thing for me. I'm applying right now with a 3.1 overall GPA, (4.0 post bacc/32 credits, 12 more to follow) and 31 MCAT. Hopefully I'll have some good news before this time next year. Good luck to you!

 

[mcataz]

Whether it's a masters or a post-bac program, you need to be concerned with the volume of classes, and level of difficulty associated with each class. Most Masters degrees simply do not offer the same intensive class load that most post-bac programs offer. Many masters related curriculum involves research classes. And research classes are easy A's. You essentially work under the supervision of a professor with a lot of flexibility. And if you essentially complete the project, you will get an A. Medical school adcoms are aware of this flexibile nature of masters programs. And they aren't as awe inspired when they see that a graduate of a masters program has a 4.0 GPA. In short, there are a lot of fluff classes involved in a masters prorgram in addition to the much sough after difficult graduate level classes within them.

I chose to do a post-bac program instead of a masters non-thesis program at Midwestern Osteopathic School of Medicine. I chose the post-bac program, because the Masters program at Midwestern involves 2 real classes per quarter with the rest of their classes involving research.

My purpose was to raise my GPA and prove that I was capable of handling a medical school like regiment. The post-bac program involves a lot of actual classroom work. For example, I took Human Anatomy, Embryology, Physiology, Bio-stats and Cell Biology all in winter quarter. In the Masters program, I would have taken biochem, physiology and a few ambiguous research related opportunities.

In short, it depends on your program. But most medical schools are weary of Masters programs due to the flexibility and low class load they offer. That's why you will see students who have a 4.0 in a Masters program. But very rarely do they graduate from a post-bac with a GPA that high.

So focus on taking as many upper- level medical school type of classes. If you don't know what they are., here is a list for you.

Human Anatomy
Pharmacology
Biochemistry
Immunology
Histology
Cell Biology
Genetics
Microbiology
Physiology
Embryology
Public Health
Virology
Biostatistics
Epidemiology
Parasitology
Pathophysiology
Pathology
Biophysics

My post-bac program involves all of the above classes with the exception of pathology. As you can see, most of these classes would not be offered in a standard undergraduate program. So choose your program wisely. These are all medical school classes.

 

[BiOGoly]

I see what you are saying as far as undergraduate credits are concerned, but that is part of my problem. I will have roughly 300 credits of undergrad by this coming spring, so even if I spent an extra year doing just upper div. bio (assuming they offer enough classes that I haven't already taken!) my overall GPA would not improve much. The name of the game here I guess is consistency, my earlier grades were inconsistent to say the least. Even though I have maintained a 3.8+ avg. over two years taking full loads I still feel like I need to make up for an ignominious past, or a least put in an extra year or so of distance before applying.

Another problem is the cost. Financial aid for undergrad runs out at 46k, assuming only fed-backed loans. In my case I would need to take out expensive private loans if I wanted to take more non-grad classes. In a masters program you have access to an extra 100k of resources, so funding isn't a problem.

Programs like BU's masters (80K...ouch!) and others sound great, especially if their published statistics of 85-95% admit rate after graduation is legit...However, I am a little incredulous about those figures. If someone has any more information on these programs I would be interested.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by BiOGoly
I see what you are saying as far as undergraduate credits are concerned, but that is part of my problem. I will have roughly 300 credits of undergrad by this coming spring, so even if I spent an extra year doing just upper div. bio (assuming they offer enough classes that I haven't already taken!) my overall GPA would not improve much. The name of the game here I guess is consistency, my earlier grades were inconsistent to say the least. Even though I have maintained a 3.8+ avg. over two years taking full loads I still feel like I need to make up for an ignominious past, or a least put in an extra year or so of distance before applying.

Another problem is the cost. Financial aid for undergrad runs out at 46k, assuming only fed-backed loans. In my case I would need to take out expensive private loans if I wanted to take more non-grad classes. In a masters program you have access to an extra 100k of resources, so funding isn't a problem.

Programs like BU's masters (80K...ouch!) and others sound great, especially if their published statistics of 85-95% admit rate after graduation is legit...However, I am a little incredulous about those figures. If someone has any more information on these programs I would be interested.

I have a lot of credits too (close to 200) and I can't significantly raise my GPA either. So for me, it's all about demonstrating consistency and the ability to succeed in difficult courses. In addition, I get a separate GPA for my post-bac and my second bachelors degree. So while my overall may still be low. They will see (if they open my file) that my post-bac was a 4.0 GPA. And they will see the courses that I took.


Therefore, look at what you took for those 2 years in which you averaged a 3.8 GPA. If they contained rigorous science classes, then don't bother with a post-bac because that's essentially what you already did. If those 2 years did not involve many science or engineering related classes, then I might consider entering a one year post-bacc. In the long-run, a post-bacc is a worthy investment if you feel that you have the potential to graduate from them with a 3.5 GPA.

Keep in mind that post-baccs are more difficult than the standard pre-med curriculum. And your competition is even more difficult because every student in the program is gunning to get an A and rectify his or her past academic record. So choose your post-bacc wisely. Don't just go by name-brands. There is no point enrolling at Harvard's Extension school if you are uncertain about how you would stand up to the competition in their program.

Talk to some adcoms. Arrange a meeting with one in your nearest city. He or she will be blunt with you and encourage you to pursue a post-bacc or just raise your MCAT whatever that may be.

 

[beanbean]

I am curious why you need additional classes if your GPA has been a 3.8 over the past two years with a full-courseload. Have you already applied and been rejected? Have you had any feedback from med schools on how to improve your chances? If you already have 300 credits it doesn't seem that more classes will solve your problem.

I had a low undergrad gpa (2.5) due to a chronic illness during my undergrad years (1986-1990, Boston University, Biomedical Engineering). I returned to school two years ago to take prereqs and improve my gpa. I was accepted into UCONN's post-bacc program after a year of full-time coursework. Although my 45 credits of post-bacc work had a 4.0 gpa, my cummulative gpa rose only to 3.0. I was accepted to UCONN med school and start next week. The admissions commitee obviously looked past my original gpa which was 13 years old and focused on my recent academic work along with my MCAT, professional experience, ECs, and LORs. UCONN's post bacc program has a very high acceptance rate to med school for its students; however, getting into the program is competitive.

Feel free to PM me if I can be of any assistance.

Deirdre