Harvard, Columbia & UPenn

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IUforever

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I was just wondering with my stats, will I be able to

make any of these schools?

my gpa is around 4.2 (thanks to Canadian GPA inflation) and

AA23, PAT22, TS23 (Canadian DAT)

Im a Canadian applicant with an average amount of EC.

I know admission into Harvard is like playing lottery

but Columbia and UPenn, what are the chances with those stats?

On Predent.com, I have seen many people with high gpa (>3,75) and high

DAT (>20) getting declined at those institutions.
 
IUforever said:
I was just wondering with my stats, will I be able to

make any of these schools?

my gpa is around 4.2 (thanks to Canadian GPA inflation) and

AA23, PAT22, TS23 (Canadian DAT)

Im a Canadian applicant with an average amount of EC.

I know admission into Harvard is like playing lottery

but Columbia and UPenn, what are the chances with those stats?

On Predent.com, I have seen many people with high gpa (>3,75) and high

DAT (>20) getting declined at those institutions.
Click to expand...

For someone with a 4.2 GPA, your common sense is ****. For your sake, I hope you don't come off as much of an airhead during an interview, as you do on this forum.
 
amalgamgrillz said:
For someone with a 4.2 GPA, your common sense is ****. For your sake, I hope you don't come off as much of an airhead during an interview, as you do on this forum.
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:troll: haha :troll:
 
I know that Harvard and Columbia are both research-heavy. I have heard not very nice things about Harvard grads regarding their handskills... If you want to go into private practice, or practice at all, I've heard that Harvard IS NOT THE PLACE TO GO. They are pretty much a dental school that has an Ivy name and nothing else. (Of course, dental school is what you make of it, but they don't have a very good patient base, so it'll be a lot harder for you to gain experience.)
 
amphiprion said:
I know that Harvard and Columbia are both research-heavy. I have heard not very nice things about Harvard grads regarding their handskills... If you want to go into private practice, or practice at all, I've heard that Harvard IS NOT THE PLACE TO GO. They are pretty much a dental school that has an Ivy name and nothing else. (Of course, dental school is what you make of it, but they don't have a very good patient base, so it'll be a lot harder for you to gain experience.)
Click to expand...

Yeah right dude, if you graduate from Harvard you get into whatever specialty you want and as many patients as you want lol

get REAL bro
 
amphiprion said:
I know that Harvard and Columbia are both research-heavy. I have heard not very nice things about Harvard grads regarding their handskills... If you want to go into private practice, or practice at all, I've heard that Harvard IS NOT THE PLACE TO GO. They are pretty much a dental school that has an Ivy name and nothing else. (Of course, dental school is what you make of it, but they don't have a very good patient base, so it'll be a lot harder for you to gain experience.)
Click to expand...

Yeah right dude, if you graduate from Harvard you get into whatever specialty you want and as many patients as you want lol

get REAL bro
 
I go to Columbia and i'm gonna tell you how things are here, I dont know how the other two run their dental schools.

At Columbia we get the best of both worlds. Since the first semester, the faculty teach and encourage students to work on their hand skills. Its really not about getting the job done but to do the assignments as many times possible to improve you hand skills. The 4th semester is called the simulation semester which is pretty much simulated clinic and patient cases but in preclinic.

On the didactic side, the anatomy, basic sciences and pathophysiology is combined with medical students and offered by the medical school.

I honestly didnt go to Penn and Harvard interviews cause I knew I was gonna go to Columbia but if you got interviews go to them so you get a vibe of each program. From what I've seen here, students are happy with their experience and faculty are very friendly, caring, and knowledgeable.

about stats and getting interviews, there really is no way to predict personality from numbers. I've seen people with 4.0 and 24 getting rejected but people with lower numbers getting in. If you are a good person, mature and independent they will recognize your qualities and will get you.
 
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charmm said:
i go to columbia and i'm gonna tell you how things are here, i dont know how the other two run their dental schools.

At columbia we get the best of both worlds. Since the first semester, the faculty teach and encourage students to work on their hand skills. Its really not about getting the job done but to do the assignments as many times possible to improve you hand skills. The 4th semester is called the simulation semester which is pretty much simulated clinic and patient cases but in preclinic.

On the didactic side, the anatomy, basic sciences and pathophysiology is combined with medical students and offered by the medical school.

I honestly didnt go to penn and harvard interviews cause i knew i was gonna go to columbia but if you got interviews go to them so you get a vibe of each program. From what i've seen here, students are happy with their experience and faculty are very friendly, caring, and knowledgeable.

About stats and getting interviews, there really is no way to predict personality from numbers. I've seen people with 4.0 and 24 getting rejected but people with lower numbers getting in. If you are a good person, mature and independent they will recognize your qualities and will get you.
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+1
 
Columbia hasn't accepted a Canadian in years. With your stats, you may be the one to break the pattern, but it's sort of up in the air.

And as for all the comments about trolling, bragging, don't be an idiot, etc., they're unfounded and based entirely on assumption. Just answer his or her question. Disregard the fact that he or she has great grades; it shouldn't mean anything to you.

And as for the "carving is no substitute for ochem," what does that mean? Does that mean that some schools use the carving score as a replacement for organic chemistry? That's absurd. Why not just look at our organic chemistry course grades?

I did abysmal in carving, and I was under the impression that schools would have the common sense to ignore the score, since they have nothing to compare it to and no way to interpret it. A lot of Canadian schools don't even look at carving.
 
cleanup said:
Columbia hasn't accepted a Canadian in years. With your stats, you may be the one to break the pattern, but it's sort of up in the air.

And as for all the comments about trolling, bragging, don't be an idiot, etc., they're unfounded and based entirely on assumption. Just answer his or her question. Disregard the fact that he or she has great grades; it shouldn't mean anything to you.

And as for the "carving is no substitute for ochem," what does that mean? Does that mean that some schools use the carving score as a replacement for organic chemistry? That's absurd. Why not just look at our organic chemistry course grades?

I did abysmal in carving, and I was under the impression that schools would have the common sense to ignore the score, since they have nothing to compare it to and no way to interpret it. A lot of Canadian schools don't even look at carving.
Click to expand...


there were Canadians in class of 2011
 
From an aesthetic standpoint, Penn blows. The building is older than your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather and smells like like him too in certain parts of the school. The clinic used to be an old community rec center gymnasium WTF. Instead of just blowing up this old eye sore and building a new modern state of the art facility with the mega millions they have, they keep trying to marginally improve it with these stupid little remodel jobs that merely act as a band aid. It's one thing if it was an old classic building that was still functional, but no, this old fart building is just plain ******ed. Plus, the students there are never smiling and never seem happy to be there. Just go there and check it out for yourself, you'll see what I mean. And be sure to hold your breath when you go downstairs in the basement area.
 
PreDent321 said:
From an aesthetic standpoint, Penn blows. The building is older than your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather and smells like like him too in certain parts of the school. The clinic used to be an old community rec center gymnasium WTF. Instead of just blowing up this old eye sore and building a new modern state of the art facility with the mega millions they have, they keep trying to marginally improve it with these stupid little remodel jobs that merely act as a band aid. It's one thing if it was an old classic building that was still functional, but no, this old fart building is just plain ******ed. Plus, the students there are never smiling and never seem happy to be there. Just go there and check it out for yourself, you'll see what I mean. And be sure to hold your breath when you go downstairs in the basement area.
Click to expand...

DentistDMD, is that you?
 
amphiprion said:
I know that Harvard and Columbia are both research-heavy. I have heard not very nice things about Harvard grads regarding their handskills... If you want to go into private practice, or practice at all, I've heard that Harvard IS NOT THE PLACE TO GO. They are pretty much a dental school that has an Ivy name and nothing else. (Of course, dental school is what you make of it, but they don't have a very good patient base, so it'll be a lot harder for you to gain experience.)
Click to expand...

When I was a predent, I knew about the rumors about HSDM before coming here. But I took matters into my own hands by investigating the curriculum, talking to students and recent grads, and assessing my own goals. As a current student, I can tell you that our unique curriculum and the personal freedom it affords us is what gets us into "any specialty we want". Specialty programs appreciate our didactic curriculum. And as a result of our p/f system, we all have the time to pursue whatever extracurrics we want, whether that be research, service, global health, health policy, etc. (If you're concerned about p/f boards + p/f grading, that's a different discussion. But just to reassure you, I'm not worried 😉 I can elaborate later.)

All of us really enjoy our time here. We have an amazing class. And as far as class size goes, I'd say HSDM has a great unique setup. Since we're in the med school for the first two years, we can take advantage of a large class size (~200), so we can make lots of friends and make lasting connections with a lot of people who will do amazing things in the future. After 2nd year, we split off from the med kids, and assume our tiny class of 35. Thus, while we don't start clinical dentistry until the end of 2nd year, we get so much individual attention from the faculty at that time and afterwards that we can be accelerated (compared to other clinical training programs) through the training. It's like having private tutors in clinical dentistry.

I know we don't have a good "rep" for turning out clinical practitioners, but it's really because our most successful grads turn out being great contributors in global health, academics, policy, and specialty practice. It's not a result of the HSDM curriculum, but rather due to the personal choices of the grads. However, if one of us really wanted to be a general dentist, he/she would certainly be able to and many have in the past. From whatever school you come from, no one is as skilled and as quick as they should be for private practice straight out of dental school, and everyone could benefit from a pgy-1 (in my opinion).

Overall, people come here because HSDM gives them options (LOTS of them), not only during our training but also post-graduation. If you are looking to run through dental school in a hurry straight into private practice, consider going somewhere else because you wouldn't be taking advantage of all the opportunities offered here. But if you want the options (now and later), then consider going here. There may not be one single 'best dental school' out there... but at least I can say that all of us are really happy with our choice and just really happy during our daily lives here in general.
 
Oh, and to respond to the OP. High stats alone don't get you into HSDM (I can't speak for the other two schools), no matter how high they are. We have people who got in with lower stats, and I know people with extremely high stats who got rejected very early. And also, research is not required for acceptance (not many people know this). People have gotten in here without ever stepping foot in a lab, except for class. Unfortunately, there's no general guidelines I can tell you to follow because they look for a variety of personalities when choosing the class (ideally, 35 very different personalities). Just make sure you stay true and represent yourself accurately in your app documents and interview. And just cross your fingers.

p.s. HSDM accepts Canadians 😉
 
PreDent321 said:
From an aesthetic standpoint, Penn blows. The building is older than your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather and smells like like him too in certain parts of the school. The clinic used to be an old community rec center gymnasium WTF. Instead of just blowing up this old eye sore and building a new modern state of the art facility with the mega millions they have, they keep trying to marginally improve it with these stupid little remodel jobs that merely act as a band aid. It's one thing if it was an old classic building that was still functional, but no, this old fart building is just plain ******ed. Plus, the students there are never smiling and never seem happy to be there. Just go there and check it out for yourself, you'll see what I mean. And be sure to hold your breath when you go downstairs in the basement area.
Click to expand...

Penn's School of Dental Medicine actually has 3 buildings that make up what we call "the Dental School." There is Levy, which is the research building, which is pretty archaic and gloomy, I'll admit. Also is Evans, which is a wing of the school that used to be Dr. Evans mansion from way back when (super old, but in my opinion well kept and I've come to appreciate the unique architecture and grandiosity of this wing of the school), and there is the Schattner center which is the center of the school, and includes the school's main atrium, and 4-5 clinics. There are another 3-4 clinics in the Evans building, one of which is the largest clinic that we call "Main Clinic". Schattner is newly built, and is very nice. We have 3 outdoor patios within the property of the Dental School where we eat lunch in the summers and springs and host an abundance of student-led events (BBQs, student council stuff, etc). I've been at the school for more than 2 years now, and I can't recall ever noticing a bad smell in the basement. Yes, our lecture halls are in the basement and have no windows, that sort of sucks. The exterior of the school, however, I feel looks very good. A lot of brick and large windows. From an "aesthetic standpoint," one must also consider the surrounding area which of course contains the University of Pennsylvania - one of the nicest campuses I've ever seen. The Dental school is on 40th St, and UPenn extends from 40th to 33rd or so. The walk from the dental school to the hospitals is extremely nice - it's called Locust walk. Be sure to NOT hold your breath when you are walking around campus, because there is a lot of greenery to appreciate, and a very vibrant campus life. On 23rd or so (a short bus ride away, or a 15-20 minute walk), you enter downtown Philadelphia - the center of the 5th largest city (I think) in the USA, I can't imagine that area being too much of an eye sore. As for some other questions regarding admissions to Penn - many of my classmates have never done research. Penn accepts many Canadians every year (my year there are about 10 or 11). I attended an interview at Harvard, but never got accepted. I don't agree that getting in is like playing the lottery - I think they are looking for smart students who also excel outside the classroom. I feel that it would be very easy for them to pick a class of a smart and academically talented students. There is an abundance of students who have great GPAs and great DAT scores and who would be pleased to attend Harvard (I was one of these applicants), but they only have 30-something spots. I feel that Harvard adcoms realize that since their school's name is so sought after, they have the luxury of not only having to choose bright students, but also students who are on a different level of maturity and accomplishment than the other applicants. I feel that is something that I lacked at the time.
 
Contach said:
Penn's School of Dental Medicine actually has 3 buildings that make up what we call "the Dental School." There is Levy, which is the research building, which is pretty archaic and gloomy, I'll admit. Also is Evans, which is a wing of the school that used to be Dr. Evans mansion from way back when (super old, but in my opinion well kept and I've come to appreciate the unique architecture and grandiosity of this wing of the school), and there is the Schattner center which is the center of the school, and includes the school's main atrium, and 4-5 clinics. There are another 3-4 clinics in the Evans building, one of which is the largest clinic that we call "Main Clinic". Schattner is newly built, and is very nice. We have 3 outdoor patios within the property of the Dental School where we eat lunch in the summers and springs and host an abundance of student-led events (BBQs, student council stuff, etc). I've been at the school for more than 2 years now, and I can't recall ever noticing a bad smell in the basement. Yes, our lecture halls are in the basement and have no windows, that sort of sucks. The exterior of the school, however, I feel looks very good. A lot of brick and large windows. From an "aesthetic standpoint," one must also consider the surrounding area which of course contains the University of Pennsylvania - one of the nicest campuses I've ever seen. The Dental school is on 40th St, and UPenn extends from 40th to 33rd or so. The walk from the dental school to the hospitals is extremely nice - it's called Locust walk. Be sure to NOT hold your breath when you are walking around campus, because there is a lot of greenery to appreciate, and a very vibrant campus life. On 23rd or so (a short bus ride away, or a 15-20 minute walk), you enter downtown Philadelphia - the center of the 5th largest city (I think) in the USA, I can't imagine that area being too much of an eye sore. As for some other questions regarding admissions to Penn - many of my classmates have never done research. Penn accepts many Canadians every year (my year there are about 10 or 11). I attended an interview at Harvard, but never got accepted. I don't agree that getting in is like playing the lottery - I think they are looking for smart students who also excel outside the classroom. I feel that it would be very easy for them to pick a class of a smart and academically talented students. There is an abundance of students who have great GPAs and great DAT scores and who would be pleased to attend Harvard (I was one of these applicants), but they only have 30-something spots. I feel that Harvard adcoms realize that since their school's name is so sought after, they have the luxury of not only having to choose bright students, but also students who are on a different level of maturity and accomplishment than the other applicants. I feel that is something that I lacked at the time.
Click to expand...

Dude, your biased fandom of Penn is causing so much jizz to spurt out of your mouth that I was so close to putting a condom on my ears for some auditory protection. Seriously, you sound like a cheap car salesman who over exaggerates the marginal benefits while omitting the apparent flaws in your attempt to paint a rosy picture.

First of all, Schnatter is a sorry excuse of a facelift on a small cramped lobby of an archaic building. You forget to point out that it's narrow width (about 30-40 ft wide) prevented any remodel job from accomplishing its intended goal of creating a modern area for seating, lounging, hanging out, etc. Don't tell me those three metal benches on the main floor are for that purpose when in it fact it's used primarily by the patients who arrive too early for their appointments or are waiting for the bus so they can go home. C'mon that lobby is basically just a means for someone to get from one floor to another as there's no other functional benefit.

It's a bit of a stretch to claim that UPenn has one of the nicest looking campuses. Take away Locust Walk (which is a whopping long 4-block walk from 34th St. to the 38th St. Walking Bridge) and there's nothing redeeming from an aesthetic standpoint. You forget to mention the rows of decrepit houses with mandatory steel bars on the first floor windows for safety that surround the dental school on Spruce St. from 40th to 42nd streets and beyond. (Funny how you mention the school is located on 40th and you talk about everything below it but nothing above it or even on the same block lol). And it gets much worse after 42nd. Oh how about all the crime and muggings that occur on these neighboring streets too? Also, how about the smelly ginko trees around campus that smell like cow manure at this time of year? Yeah, really beautiful buddy.

How about mentioning all the trash and litter you find on the streets and sidewalks surrounding the campus in addition to all of center city Philadelphia which is known to be one of the dirtiest cities in America? Don't tell me you never noticed that.

Sorry bro that I had to slam your post, since your super biased assessment only presented one misleading side of the story, I just felt obliged to fill in the gaps you conveniently omitted. 🙂
 
Last edited:
Pat Kelly said:
No research = harder to get in the schools you listed
Click to expand...

Not true for Columbia. Although there is a lot of research goes on at the dental school (and the entire medical center for that matter) it is not something that is expected or required before you get here.
 
PreDent321 said:
Dude, your biased fandom of Penn is causing so much jizz to spurt out of your mouth that I was so close to putting a condom on my ears for some auditory protection. Seriously, you sound like a cheap car salesman who over exaggerates the marginal benefits while omitting the apparent flaws in your attempt to paint a rosy picture.

First of all, Schnatter is a sorry excuse of a facelift on a small cramped lobby of an archaic building. You forget to point out that it's narrow width (about 30-40 ft wide) prevented any remodel job from accomplishing its intended goal of creating a modern area for seating, lounging, hanging out, etc. Don't tell me those three metal benches on the main floor are for that purpose when in it fact it's used primarily by the patients who arrive too early for their appointments or are waiting for the bus so they can go home. C'mon that lobby is basically just a means for someone to get from one floor to another as there's no other functional benefit.

It's a bit of a stretch to claim that UPenn has one of the nicest looking campuses. Take away Locust Walk (which is a whopping long 4-block walk from 34th St. to the 38th St. Walking Bridge) and there's nothing redeeming from an aesthetic standpoint. You forget to mention the rows of decrepit houses with mandatory steel bars on the first floor windows for safety that surround the dental school on Spruce St. from 40th to 42nd streets and beyond. (Funny how you mention the school is located on 40th and you talk about everything below it but nothing above it or even on the same block lol). And it gets much worse after 42nd. Oh how about all the crime and muggings that occur on these neighboring streets too? Also, how about the smelly ginko trees around campus that smell like cow manure at this time of year? Yeah, really beautiful buddy.

How about mentioning all the trash and litter you find on the streets and sidewalks surrounding the campus in addition to all of center city Philadelphia which is known to be one of the dirtiest cities in America? Don't tell me you never noticed that.

Sorry bro that I had to slam your post, since your super biased assessment only presented one misleading side of the story, I just felt obliged to fill in the gaps you conveniently omitted. 🙂
Click to expand...

Sounds like someone got rejected by Penn..
 
amalgamgrillz said:
Sounds like someone got rejected by Penn..
Click to expand...

Nope wrong again, I'm a first time applicant. Actually I would LMAO if you got rejected this cycle with all the interviews you boast about.


JOoa0ky said:
This intense hate... can't be good for his blood pressure.
Click to expand...

Hey I'm just speaking the objective truth. I never took any shots at Penn's program, just the aesthetic eye sore part of the school.
 
PreDent321 said:
Nope wrong again, I'm a first time applicant. Actually I would LMAO if you got rejected this cycle with all the interviews you boast about.




Hey I'm just speaking the objective truth. I never took any shots at Penn's program, just the aesthetic eye sore part of the school.
Click to expand...

bro seriously? Penn is ivy league lol.. u graduate from any 3 of these schools ur goin places.. get with the program.. enuff said

ps. all ivy leagues look like palaces duhhhhh
 
PreDent321 said:
Hey I'm just speaking the objective truth. I never took any shots at Penn's program, just the aesthetic eye sore part of the school.
Click to expand...

I mean... its ok to dislike some school but there are usually likes in there somewhere.

I just can't comprehend the absolute negativity that you are experiencing.
 
PreDent321 said:
Nope wrong again, I'm a first time applicant. Actually I would LMAO if you got rejected this cycle with all the interviews you boast about.

Hey I'm just speaking the objective truth. I never took any shots at Penn's program, just the aesthetic eye sore part of the school.
Click to expand...

Lol, for someone who thinks silver shirts "look sharp," I don't think you have any credibility to judge aesthetics..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGpOizUIY60 --> 24 minutes of the ugliest campus in the world. Totes mcgotes.
 
PreDent321 said:
Nope wrong again, I'm a first time applicant. Actually I would LMAO if you got rejected this cycle with all the interviews you boast about.




Hey I'm just speaking the objective truth. I never took any shots at Penn's program, just the aesthetic eye sore part of the school.
Click to expand...

Ah. My new favorite poster got banned.
 
AlbinoPolarBear said:
Ah. My new favorite poster got banned.
Click to expand...

Despite being a major troll, myself, pretty much everyone I've gone toe-to-toe with has been banned. Except doc_toothache...can't seem to push his buttons far enough.
 
I love heated arguments over the Ivy league educations.

As is true with every school, the dental school is a separate endeavor from the undergraduate programs and other grad programs. Don't automatically assume a school with ivy league pricetag and name will give you an ivy league education. They're giving you a dental school education. This is true for EVERY school.

One must diverge reputation from reality. Look into the programs and see if it is a good fit.
 
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