Harvard vs Duke vs Yale vs Mayo AZ/UCLA/WashU (all full tuition)

[premedasaurus]

Hello everyone! Thanks so much for reading this and helping out — I never in a million years thought I’d have even one of these options, let alone multiple. Because they are all such incredible schools, I feel some major FOMO about the ones I won’t pick. Guess this is a great problem to have, but I really don't want to make the wrong choice! Thank you again, and I am so very grateful for these options.

Future career goals: Largely undecided, but I want to keep my options open

Overall what I’m looking for/value is:

• Structure in place to help me explore specialties early on: I have some rough ideas of specialties I might like (psych, oncology) but really want to explore and see if anything different catches my interest
• Sense of community: I didn’t make a lot of friends in undergrad (partly because I didn’t prioritize it, partly bad luck, partly COVID) and would really like to build some meaningful friendships. I know, I know, medical school is to learn about medicine, not make friends (and I know, once clinicals start everyone branches out in their own direction), but I still want this to the extent it’s possible
• Weather: I’m adaptable to a variety of temperatures, but don’t like extremes in either direction. I also grew up in the PNW and tend to experience mild sadness/depression during extended periods of gloomy/grey skies. Although, I could deal with more weather doom and gloom if needed.
• Cost: I don’t qualify for need-based aid but my family will not be contributing to my education, so everything will be covered by loans. Although cost is not my #1 factor and I don’t want to end up somewhere I’d be unhappy just because of cost, it also is important to consider. Why take out more loans if I could take out less?
• Smaller things to consider/stuff I care about: Research opportunities, global health rotations/service trips, Medical Spanish resources, time off (summer breaks, spring breaks, etc), work-life balance/emphasis on wellness

UCLA! (Estimated total debt: 157k)
Pros:
+ FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIP!
+ WEATHER! Blue skies!!
+ 1 year preclinical, so the third year is entirely dedicated to a “Discovery” project/area of concentration
+ High Latinx population
+ Strong global health opportunities
+ Easy access to the beach and lots of other outdoor activities
+ No AOA
+ P/F clinicals for now (although they are likely to stay P/F)
+ A decent amount of time off/mini breaks (at least during M1)

Cons:
- TRAFFIC! I don’t mind driving when my car is actually moving, but I hate being stalled in traffic
- Very high cost of living area
- Large class size
- Less prestige compared to other options?

WashU! (Estimated total debt: 105k)
Pros:
+ FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIP!
+ Great reputation in medicine and science
+ No AOA
+ Mostly P/F clinicals (although you can earn a “distinction”)
+ Research powerhouse
+ Lower cost of living area = better quality of life for me/partner?
+ Exams during the preclinical phase are approximately once a month and usually on Fridays

Cons:
- Although the cost of living is cheaper, I am not super excited about Saint Louis as a place
- Not great name recognition outside of medicine and science. I know this shouldn’t matter, but it does to me a little bit
- Not as exciting of a curriculum structure for me compared to my other options

Mayo Clinic AZ! (Estimated total debt: 143k)
Pros:
+ FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIP!
+ Selectives! They seem like a very cool way to explore a wide variety of specialties early on
+ Strong mentorship opportunities with a high faculty-to-student ratio
+ Opportunities to be funded to visit/rotate at the other Mayo campuses
+ Access to hiking near Phoenix
+ High Latinx population
+ Great name recognition in and outside of medicine
+ From a branding perspective, I love the Mayo philosophy/values
+ No AOA
+ Medium COL area

Cons:
- HEAT! I like blue skies and warm weather, but I think 4 months out of the year will be pretty miserable
- Clinical year is graded on a H/HP/P/F system
- Small class size may be a pro overall, but it makes me nervous that I won’t be able to make friends
- Limited dual degree opportunities (really not sure if I want a dual degree, but it would be nice to have the option)

Duke! (PCLT = Primary Care Leadership Track) (Estimated total debt: TBD)
Pros:
+ 1-year preclinical and 1 year completely dedicated to research/dual degree
+ PCLT program aligns with my values and may be a built-in community of friends (I am fairly certain I do not want to do primary care, but PCLT does not limit you to applying to primary care residencies, and I am also able to drop out and join the regular MD class if I wanted)
+ P/F clinicals!
+ No AOA
+ Great name recognition both in and outside of medicine
+ I could see myself vibing with Durham, and it has decent/pretty good weather

Cons:
- No merit aid (yet? I am hopeful but we will see)
- Not 100% sure if this is true, but lack of diversity among patient population and potentially med school class?
- 1 year-preclinical seems overall like a pro, but it would be an intense year — exams every other Monday

Yale! (Estimated total debt: 400k?)
Pros:
+ YALE SYSTEM! Yale’s curriculum is the most flexible and probably the lowest stress out of all my schools — I could really focus on wellness and devote my time where it matters
+ No AOA
+ P/F clinicals!
+ No shelf exams! (Not sure how big of a deal this is, but it seems to be emphasized a lot)
+ Ivy name, great name recognition in and out of medicine

Cons:
- They do not offer merit scholarships, so likely full price (~400k?)
- Is there *too* much flexibility in the curriculum? Unsure
- Lack of patient diversity
- New Haven is cold
- Based on my limited virtual interactions, the people seem very dry? Small sample size though.

HMS! (Estimated total debt: 400k?)
Pros:
+ If my reaction to getting accepted is any indication of how I feel, I had a full-on meltdown when I got the HMS acceptance — it’s HARVARD!
+ No AOA
+ P/F clinicals!
+ Never been, but I’ve been told Boston is an awesome place to live (besides the cold). I like the walkability of Europe, and I've heard Boston is walkable in a way many other cities are not
+ Ridiculous match list -- the sky would truly be the limit
+ Strong global health opportunities
+ Class seems close/tight-knit

Cons:
- They do not offer merit scholarships, so likely full price (~400k?)
- High COL area
- Flipped classroom: unsure if pro or con. On the one hand, I think all the mandatory classes would be annoying, may not be an efficient use of time, and may make time for wellness and Extracurriculars harder. On the other hand, some of my favorite learning in undergrad was having a friend, and I teach each other the material back and forth — which seems similar to what the flipped classroom would be like?

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[deleted1065184]

First off, wow congrats to you!!! What an amazing cycle. You're going to do extremely well wherever you go. With cost being one of your listed factors, I think Duke/Yale/Harvard are automatically out. So it's functionally between UCLA, WashU, and Mayo.

You would match equally well in psych or IM from any of these schools, so I think we should also throw prestige out the window. All 3 of these schools will give you great opportunities to explore specialties early on, so I'd throw that out the window too.

Here are the biggest cons I see from each place. UCLA => Super expensive. WashU => Not excited about idea of STL and WashU relative lack of name recognition outside of medicine. Mayo => Super hot + graded clerkships. Off bat, I wanna stress how amazing it is to not have graded clerkships. For me, that'd move Mayo towards the bottom.

Between UCLA and WashU, the fact that UCLA had a curriculum you like more, has better weather (St. Louis gets HOT & HUMID during summers), and a bigger Latinx population makes me think you should probably lean towards UCLA. If you can get over not liking the idea of St. Louis tho, it's actually a super underrated city.

All of this could change if you get offers from other schools though, ofc.

 

[deleted1158770]

Wow congratulations! All of those are good options. I personally would choose Harvard (since you mention cost isn’t your #1 factor). I think that the opportunities at the school (told by my friend there now) and connections are unmatched. If having a Latinx population is that important to you, as the comment above says, UCLA or mayo would make sense.
Saint louis is actually a pretty diverse city though and I know people that like living there. They are all awesome cities (I personally don’t know much about where yale is located though). I am curious to know why you have a one year preclinical year as a pro for UCLA but a pro and con for Duke. I also heard from a friend that UCLA doesn’t really have substantial breaks (including summer) but not sure if that is true or not. I don’t think that you can go wrong with any of these, so I’d love to hear what others think!

 

[deleted1065184]

Wow congratulations! All of those are good options. I personally would choose Harvard (since you mention cost isn’t your #1 factor). I think that the opportunities at the school (told by my friend there now) and connections are unmatched. If having a Latinx population is that important to you, as the comment above says, UCLA or mayo would make sense.
Saint louis is actually a pretty diverse city though and I know people that like living there. They are all awesome cities (I personally don’t know much about where yale is located though). I am curious to know why you have a one year preclinical year as a pro for UCLA but a pro and con for Duke. I also heard from a friend that UCLA doesn’t really have substantial breaks (including summer) but not sure if that is true or not. I don’t think that you can go wrong with any of these, so I’d love to hear what others think!

Wow you'd really take on $400k in debt just to say you went to Harvard? Pretty fascinating lol. But agreed that St. Louis is a diverse city. Honestly all these cities are quite diverse.

 

[deleted1158770]

Wow you'd really take on $400k in debt just to say you went to Harvard? Pretty fascinating lol. But agreed that St. Louis is a diverse city. Honestly all these cities are quite diverse.

Well I am not a strong enough candidate to be in the situation that the OP is in 😂. I was just trying to think in their shoes. Regardless of the situation, even with the full tuition scholarships, the OP is going to be in significant debt. It seems like the OP cares a fair amount about prestige and name recognition from their pro and con list, so I feel like if I was them then Mayo or Harvard would be at the top of my list. The OP just included financial aid estimates for Yale and Harvard, so I assume that they haven’t received their package yet. My friend who at Harvard turned down a full tuition scholarship at a T20 school to go there, so I don’t think that would be a completely unheard of decision.

 

[deleted1158770]

The OP should just go where they’ll be happy and or have the most success, since soon the OP will be a successful doctor and making the big bucks.

 

[deleted1126476]

My friend who at Harvard turned down a full tuition scholarship at a T20 school to go there, so I don’t think that would be a completely unheard of decision.

It's not unheard of because many medical school matriculants come from very wealthy families...especially at these top tier schools. Turning down full-tuition to pay full COA among T20 makes zero sense especially if you would have to take loans/major debt.

 

[deleted1065184]

Well I am not a strong enough candidate to be in the situation that the OP is in 😂. I was just trying to think in their shoes. Regardless of the situation, even with the full tuition scholarships, the OP is going to be in significant debt. It seems like the OP cares a fair amount about prestige and name recognition from their pro and con list, so I feel like if I was them then Mayo or Harvard would be at the top of my list. The OP just included financial aid estimates for Yale and Harvard, so I assume that they haven’t received their package yet. My friend who at Harvard turned down a full tuition scholarship at a T20 school to go there, so I don’t think that would be a completely unheard of decision.

OP cares about name but clearly cares about a lot of other stuff too. Within medicine, the prestige factor would go to Harvard and WashU. Outside of medicine, it'd be Harvard and Yale. I didn't say it was unheard of, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision lol. And like the above comment said, it's often because the student comes from a ton of money. Students who don't come from money tend to follow the money lol...I definitely did.

 

[deleted1158770]

OP cares about name but clearly cares about a lot of other stuff too. Within medicine, the prestige factor would go to Harvard and WashU. Outside of medicine, it'd be Harvard and Yale. I didn't say it was unheard of, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision lol. And like the above comment said, it's often because the student comes from a ton of money. Students who don't come from money tend to follow the money lol...I definitely did.

True. You guys make good points. It’s hard to say because the OP didn’t list what was most important to them. They just said that cost wasn’t their #1 factor. I just figured prestige/name recognition was important since they literally mentioned that in the pro/con list for each of the schools…

 

[canarystones]

I would immediately eliminate Yale and Harvard. You are achieving the same outcomes in any of these schools. There is no door Harvard will open that any of these schools cant open. Putting yourself in debt when you have nearly free options would be an absurd decision. You should think about the location and where you would be the happiest.

Your duke cons are not really cons because Duke is more diverse than Yale/Harvard/Mayo/Wash U, and you listed the curriculum as a con but a pro for UCLA even though they have a similar curriculum structure. Mayo is by far the least diverse place on your list plus I would eliminate it and you have choices where clinicals are P/F ( this eases stress). With WashU it sounds like it doesn't have enough lay prestige for you and you don't like the location which should be a deal breaker.

From what I heard about Duke students they are very friendly and close-knit and they seemed very happy. With UCLA they have a huge latnix population in the school and in the community, and you would be able to make a lot of friends. Since you care about prestige I feel like Duke is a good middle ground plus it fits every metric of what you value (If you get full tuition) if not it sounds like you would be happiest at UCLA.

 

[deleted1158770]

Yeah well if I was in the situation I wouldn’t pay a full 400k so I agree. The OP could try to leverage the full tuition scholarship at the other schools maybe? I could have sworn I heard that HMS gives substantial scholarships/aid though? But I may be wrong

 

[premedasaurus]

Yeah well if I was in the situation I wouldn’t pay a full 400k so I agree. The OP could try to leverage the full tuition scholarship at the other schools maybe? I could have sworn I heard that HMS gives substantial scholarships/aid though? But I may be wrong

HMS gives out generous need-based aid, not merit aid. I don't qualify for need-based aid -- my parents are not poor, they are just selfish and crazy haha.

 

[premedasaurus]

TBH all these schools will give you the same outcome. Paying 400k for the Harvard or Yale name when you have similar options with full tuition is a horrible decision. I would immediately remove Yale and Harvard. Based on what you said/value, I would go to UCLA or Duke ( if you get full tuition). HMS, Mayo, and Yale are the least diverse of the schools you listed. From what I heard about duke, they have a friendly, tight-knit student body everybody knows everybody. With UCLA, there is a large latnix population at the school and the surrounding community. You should go where you would be happy. I feel like you care about prestige but also want a tight knit supportive community. I feel like Duke is a good middle ground if you get full tuition, if not UCLA.

Yes, if Duke comes through with the money then I think that's where I would go. Fingers crossed

 

[premedasaurus]

OP cares about name but clearly cares about a lot of other stuff too. Within medicine, the prestige factor would go to Harvard and WashU. Outside of medicine, it'd be Harvard and Yale. I didn't say it was unheard of, but that doesn't mean it's a good decision lol. And like the above comment said, it's often because the student comes from a ton of money. Students who don't come from money tend to follow the money lol...I definitely did.

Y'all are right, I do care about prestige... Not that anyone's path to a top 20 is paved, but I came from a no-name state school for undergrad, had a below median MCAT score, no pubs, and no friends or family in medicine. When I say I didn't expect these cycle results, I'm not being humble. I truly never dreamed of getting a HMS acceptance email. I travel a lot and have a lot of family abroad; when they ask me where I'm going to med school or where I've interviewed at, everyone's jaw drops when I say HMS. I'm not going to lie, I'm human, so those reactions feel good. So I do care about prestige.

However, I am also not stupid enough to care about prestige over everything else, including cost. I realize HMS is likely not a pragmatic decision. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't break my heart to turn it down. Is there ever a reason to turn down a full ride for HMS (besides having daddy money?).

I guess another part of me that's stuck is I know logically 400k of debt is a lot of money. But its also so much money that it's a tad hard to conceptualize haha.

 

[deleted1158770]

Maybe if you think that you would be substantially more happy/satisfied at HMS, since life is short. But regardless, you should be immensely proud of yourself and the options you’ve got here!

 

[deleted1065184]

Y'all are right, I do care about prestige... Not that anyone's path to a top 20 is paved, but I came from a no-name state school for undergrad, had a below median MCAT score, no pubs, and no friends or family in medicine. When I say I didn't expect these cycle results, I'm not being humble. I truly never dreamed of getting a HMS acceptance email. I travel a lot and have a lot of family abroad; when they ask me where I'm going to med school or where I've interviewed at, everyone's jaw drops when I say HMS. I'm not going to lie, I'm human, so those reactions feel good. So I do care about prestige.

However, I am also not stupid enough to care about prestige over everything else, including cost. I realize HMS is likely not a pragmatic decision. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't break my heart to turn it down. Is there ever a reason to turn down a full ride for HMS (besides having daddy money?).

I guess another part of me that's stuck is I know logically 400k of debt is a lot of money. But its also so much money that it's a tad hard to conceptualize haha.

It's hard to conceptualize because you're young and haven't lived much life as an adult. When you're done with residency, you will be VERY happy you avoided half a million dollars in debt just for Harvard's name (and I say half a million bc the actual amount you'd pay by the time it's all said and done would be much more than $400k).

Let's also consider that the average yearly salary for psych is ~$270k and ~$360k for oncology, you'd be paying that debt off for a long time...and knowing that would influence the specialty you choose, which could negatively impact your long-term happiness. Look money isn't everything, but not having money creates a lot of problems lol.

 

[deleted1065184]

Maybe if you think that you would be substantially more happy/satisfied at HMS, since life is short. But regardless, you should be immensely proud of yourself and the options you’ve got here!

Based on the post, it seems like OP would probably be most happy at Duke. What happens if OP chooses Harvard and then hates it there? Now they're miserable and broke lol

 

[deleted1158770]

Based on the post, it seems like OP would probably be most happy at Duke. What happens if OP chooses Harvard and then hates it there? Now they're miserable and broke lol

True, but the OP could be unhappy or happy at any of those schools. Another option too is applying to outside scholarships. Since the OP is a strong applicant they could have a decent chance at armed forces or NHSC scholarships (if they want to work with underserved populations). But I agree, the scholarships they received should not be taken lightly.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

I’m voting Duke as well if they can match your full-tuition scholarships. If not, I’d lean towards WashU.

 

[deleted1158770]

I’m voting Duke as well if they can match your full-tuition scholarships. If not, I’d lean towards WashU.

Probably same.

 

[MercifulCamper]

For weather: Duke, WashU, and UCLA would be perfect for you.

For cost: WashU or UCLA - if Duke matches or comes close to matching I think Duke.

For sense of community: Yale and Harvard because Yale has a smaller class and Harvard has the societies that can facilitate what you are looking for.

I am not sure about the structure in place to explore different specialties but I would lean towards Duke for this point as it has 1 year preclinical which will give you that much more extra time to explore your interests.

I would say if Duke matches your merit scholarship from WashU or UCLA I would go there. If they don’t I would go to UCLA or WashU - probably UCLA because it seems like its a better fit for you.

To entertain the HMS option: If you are averse to crappy weather I would say Boston and New Haven are absolutely not the place for you. I’ve lived here in Boston for 7 years and absolutely detest how long the winters are. That said you will be inside most of the time studying and when you have some time off in the summers Boston is beautiful with lots of things to do. The fall is nice as well. I don’t know if going into 300K extra of debt is worth it over UCLA and WashU but that is a choice you will have to make. If you get Duke to match its not worth it at all. The Harvard name does open many doors in life but I don’t know if that much debt is worth the name. The debt may influence you to go into a higher paying specialty that you are not as excited about so that is something to consider. Also that 300 K debt with interest may start to look like 500K down the road depending on how much money you have saved and how fast you are able to pay it off.

 

[deleted1065184]

For weather: Duke, WashU, and UCLA would be perfect for you.

For cost: WashU or UCLA - if Duke matches or comes close to matching I think Duke.

For sense of community: Yale and Harvard because Yale has a smaller class and Harvard has the societies that can facilitate what you are looking for.

I am not sure about the structure in place to explore different specialties but I would lean towards Duke for this point as it has 1 year preclinical which will give you that much more extra time to explore your interests.

I would say if Duke matches your merit scholarship from WashU or UCLA I would go there. If they don’t I would go to UCLA or WashU - probably UCLA because it seems like its a better fit for you.

To entertain the HMS option: If you are averse to crappy weather I would say Boston and New Haven are absolutely not the place for you. I’ve lived here in Boston for 7 years and absolutely detest how long the winters are. That said you will be inside most of the time studying and when you have some time off in the summers Boston is beautiful with lots of things to do. The fall is nice as well. I don’t know if going into 300K extra of debt is worth it over UCLA and WashU but that is a choice you will have to make. If you get Duke to match its not worth it at all. The Harvard name does open many doors in life but I don’t know if that much debt is worth the name. The debt may influence you to go into a higher paying specialty that you are not as excited about so that is something to consider. Also that 300 K debt with interest may start to look like 500K down the road depending on how much money you have saved and how fast you are able to pay it off.

Mostly agree with this, but with the caveat that St. Louis has some of the most volatile and unpredictable weather in the country. Hot as a Southern city during the summer, cold as a Northern city during the winter. Picks and choosing what region in wants to be in weekly during the spring and fall. Def less gloomy than the PNW, but a couple notches below LA and Durham lol

 

[photosynthesaurus]

Wowow congratulations!! You have an acceptance list that only I (and many other applicants) can dream of! I just want to throw my 1 cent in the ring; I went to WashU for undergrad, and I dreamed of living in the Central West End (where WashU med is located). I felt safe going there (I'm a POC woman), my upperclassmen friends had nice apartments in that area (and they're still way more affordable than what I pay right now for rent in a big city), and the food options across St. Louis is *chefs kiss*. I'm not a huge sports fan, but if you are, St. Louis is big on the Blues and the Cardinals. Otherwise, there are so many fun (and free/cheap!) things to do in St. Louis as well. If you're from the East Coast, the weather is basically the same; you're gonna get all four seasons, but none of them are unbearable or extreme imo. Congratulations again, and good luck making your decision!!!

 

[a_distant_dream]

Congratulations on the acceptances! You can cross off Yale due to HMS. No matter where you go, you'll have to pass Step 1, do well on Step 2, and get through ERAS. In that context, I'd argue HMS (P/F no AOA + Harvard name) would make things less stressful than the Yale System. New Haven is a bit warmer than Boston (thawing snow in Boston = green grass in New Haven) and both are quite walkable. Housing is ~12k/yr (HMS) vs ~7k/yr (Yale) which is a tiny difference compared to tuition. In terms of clinical opportunities, MGH/BWH/BIDMC >>> YNHH, which I think seals the deal.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Y'all are right, I do care about prestige... Not that anyone's path to a top 20 is paved, but I came from a no-name state school for undergrad, had a below median MCAT score, no pubs, and no friends or family in medicine. When I say I didn't expect these cycle results, I'm not being humble. I truly never dreamed of getting a HMS acceptance email. I travel a lot and have a lot of family abroad; when they ask me where I'm going to med school or where I've interviewed at, everyone's jaw drops when I say HMS. I'm not going to lie, I'm human, so those reactions feel good. So I do care about prestige.

However, I am also not stupid enough to care about prestige over everything else, including cost. I realize HMS is likely not a pragmatic decision. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't break my heart to turn it down. Is there ever a reason to turn down a full ride for HMS (besides having daddy money?).

I guess another part of me that's stuck is I know logically 400k of debt is a lot of money. But its also so much money that it's a tad hard to conceptualize haha.

Given that you went to no name state schoolyard below median MCAT, which school do you think will be less stressful in terms of academics? Given your choices I wouldn’t spend 400k for Harvard.

 

[threwaway]

Y'all are right, I do care about prestige... Not that anyone's path to a top 20 is paved, but I came from a no-name state school for undergrad, had a below median MCAT score, no pubs, and no friends or family in medicine. When I say I didn't expect these cycle results, I'm not being humble. I truly never dreamed of getting a HMS acceptance email. I travel a lot and have a lot of family abroad; when they ask me where I'm going to med school or where I've interviewed at, everyone's jaw drops when I say HMS. I'm not going to lie, I'm human, so those reactions feel good. So I do care about prestige.

However, I am also not stupid enough to care about prestige over everything else, including cost. I realize HMS is likely not a pragmatic decision. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't break my heart to turn it down. Is there ever a reason to turn down a full ride for HMS (besides having daddy money?).

I guess another part of me that's stuck is I know logically 400k of debt is a lot of money. But its also so much money that it's a tad hard to conceptualize haha.

I did the math when thinking through cost and just for perspective, 400k sounds like a lot but it's more than you think because you're compounding interest on it, which can hold back your options significantly and might make you feel trapped, even with prestige. You mention a number of specialties, but it would be a shame if salary dictates your specialty of choice and you don't take a better, lower-paying opportunity because of $$$.

Some rough estimate numbers using unsubsidized fed loans (7.5% interest assumed):
By M4, you're racking up about $2800 A MONTH in interest (>$30k in pure interest).
Assuming 4y residency, assuming no additional loans but you're not making enough to pay much on the loans, by PGY-4 you're racking up $3800 A MONTH in interest (>$45k annually in pure interest).

I hate the argument that 'you'll make more than that' because life gets in the way. You would have to commit >$45,000 just so your loans don't keep racking up. What if you find someone and have kids? What if there's a family tragedy? And again, if you go into fellowship to do GI or something, you're still not making money, and the loans keep growing and it starts to become psychologically taxing.

but if you start working instead at this point, what happens? Well if you commit $50,000 a year to pay off your loans (a nice chunk of change) you'll take >30 years to pay off your loans. Want to get rid of them faster and pay $100,000 a year? Takes about 10 years. That's time you could have committed that money to do something for yourself.

You got some great options, but the money should at least matter a little. Know what you're signing up for.

 

[deleted1095841]

If you're going into academic medicine, then choose Harvard!
Pedigree matters in academic medicine.

As for the debt, if you go into academic medicine, you can take advantage of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program!
Basically, if you work at an academic medical center (or other nonprofit), you only have make payments for 10 years. Whatever is left after 10 years (which will likely be a lot) will all be forgiven!
Also, payments will be determined by current income, so you won't have to pay much during residency. So if residency is 4 years long, for example, you'll only have to make heavy-duty payments for 6 years. And many residencies are longer than that (e.g. surgical specialties). And you might decide to do a fellowship, during which time you'll be making larger payments than as a resident, but still much less than as an attending.

All said and done, you'll probably end up paying less than half of the $400k you borrowed. Just make sure you stick to federal loans only and choose the income-based repayment option.

On the other hand, if you want to go into private practice, then go to one of the schools giving you a full-tuition scholarship. Pedigree doesn't matter for private practice, and you want to avoid debt in that case.

 

[deleted1065184]

If you're going into academic medicine, then choose Harvard!
Pedigree matters in academic medicine.

As for the debt, if you go into academic medicine, you can take advantage of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program!
Basically, if you work at an academic medical center (or other nonprofit), you only have make payments for 10 years. Whatever is left after 10 years (which will likely be a lot) will all be forgiven!
Also, payments will be determined by current income, so you won't have to pay much during residency. So if residency is 4 years long, for example, you'll only have to make heavy-duty payments for 6 years. And many residencies are longer than that (e.g. surgical specialties). And you might decide to do a fellowship, during which time you'll be making larger payments than as a resident, but still much less than as an attending.

All said and done, you'll probably end up paying less than half of the $400k you borrowed. Just make sure you stick to federal loans only and choose the income-based repayment option.

On the other hand, if you want to go into private practice, then go to one of the schools giving you a full-tuition scholarship. Pedigree doesn't matter for private practice, and you want to avoid debt in that case.

I'm sorry but this is just not good advice. First, all of these institutions have SUPERB academic pedigree within medicine, comparable to Harvard. Harvard is not going to provide any academic opportunities within science or medicine that the other institutions won't. I invite you to prove that Harvard will help OP to go into academic medicine more than WashU, UCLA, or Mayo without the argument revolving around being at a Harvard affiliate hospital.

Secondly, think about what you just wrote wrt loan payments. OP, after only being able to apply for federal loans (and having to consolidate them in a particular way so that they're not disqualified), will have to make payments for TEN YEARS before *the rest* is forgiven. There's no way of knowing now how much OP will have to pay for loans before they're forgiven, so let's not throw out any numbers right now. But even if OP "only" paid half of the $400k (which we all know will be much more than $400k by the time it's all said and done due to interest), that's $200k just to have Harvard's name but no tangible benefits.

It's honestly getting kinda ridiculous at this point. SDN's obsession with Harvard has just got a death grip on y'all's logic...you're really justifying paying several hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to Harvard when OP could go to multiple peer institutions without paying any tuition.

Is everybody on this site from millionaire families or is it that premeds really aren't able to grasp how much money $400k is?!?

 

[deleted1095841]

There's no way of knowing now how much OP will have to pay for loans before they're forgiven, so let's not throw out any numbers right now.

One can read more about the law at https://studentaid.gov/pslf/ and go through the details of how income-based payments are calculated. I know a lot of people who are doing this and they seem just fine. The recurring pattern is that the vast majority of the loan is forgiven, with a greater fraction forgiven when the principal is larger, the interst rate is higher, and the length of residency training is longer.

 

[deleted1158770]

The

I'm sorry but this is just not good advice. First, all of these institutions have SUPERB academic pedigree within medicine, comparable to Harvard. Harvard is not going to provide any academic opportunities within science or medicine that the other institutions won't. I invite you to prove that Harvard will help OP to go into academic medicine more than WashU, UCLA, or Mayo without the argument revolving around being at a Harvard affiliate hospital.

Secondly, think about what you just wrote wrt loan payments. OP, after only being able to apply for federal loans (and having to consolidate them in a particular way so that they're not disqualified), will have to make payments for TEN YEARS before *the rest* is forgiven. There's no way of knowing now how much OP will have to pay for loans before they're forgiven, so let's not throw out any numbers right now. But even if OP "only" paid half of the $400k (which we all know will be much more than $400k by the time it's all said and done due to interest), that's $200k just to have Harvard's name but no tangible benefits.

It's honestly getting kinda ridiculous at this point. SDN's obsession with Harvard has just got a death grip on y'all's logic...you're really justifying paying several hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to Harvard when OP could go to multiple peer institutions without paying any tuition.

Is everybody on this site from millionaire families or is it that premeds really aren't able to grasp how much money $400k is?!?

400 K number includes the total COA though, so the 200 k you hypothetically mention wouldn’t be that much more than the other schools (since the scholarships the Op got are full Tuition and not full COA). So in that scenario I would arguably choose HMS. There are a lot of loan forgiveness programs too, like the NHSC one.

 

[deleted1065184]

One can read more about the law at https://studentaid.gov/pslf/ and go through the details of how income-based payments are calculated. I know a lot of people who are doing this and they seem just fine. The recurring pattern is that the vast majority of the loan is forgiven, with a greater fraction forgiven when the principal is larger, the interst rate is higher, and the length of residency training is longer.

Best case scenario, majority of $400k still leave a ton of debt.

 

[deleted1065184]

The

400 K number includes the total COA though, so the 200 k you hypothetically mention wouldn’t be that much more than the other schools (since the scholarships the Op got are full Tuition and not full COA). So in that scenario I would arguably choose HMS. There are a lot of loan forgiveness programs too, like the NHSC one.

Well if OP does PSLF, then that would they would pay significantly less for the other schools too. So it would still be comparatively the same. Also some areas like St. Louis are very cheap, whereas Boston and LA are super expensive. Phoenix is in the middle.

 

[Biochemist3412]

Hey, great choices. Disclaimer, I’m deciding between WashU/HMS/Stanford/JHU/UPenn/Yale/Cornell

I have the most experience w WashU and HMS.

I went to WashU for undergrad and did a lot of research and latinx outreach. I can say that St. Louis is a very charming city, it gets a lot of hate, but a lot of beautiful nature spots within a 1hr drive, chicago on the weekends, and city life is decent (not NYC or Boston or LA level, but there are nice bars and clubs if that’s your vibe). People are also very kind, wtrangers are always willing to help you out. Also great food everywhere. West end is a nice area (where the med school is) and has a lot of cafes and small bars, and on forest park which is great to chill at. There’s a very large Mexican population (they live around Cherokee st), and you have the opportunity to do Spanish medical interpreting or FM/IM rotations at casa de Salud, the main free clinic for Spanish-speaking patients without insurance. I love stl and WashU (best mentorship of the medical schools I’ve gotten into I think) but want to experience something new. Regarding crime, as long as you stay south of Delmar blvd and west of the east stl at night, there shouldn’t be any issues. Most violence is car jacking and gang related, but I go out a lot and have never had any problems.

HMS is great, amazing research opportunities, but a bit rigid in my opinion. I did a year of research at HMS and worked with many students, many complained about the lack of flexibility of the admin and profs. But Boston is really nice and you have great access to a lot of nature and clubs/bars.

I’ve lived and worked with med students from both schools extensively, if you have any specific questions feel free to DM me.

 

[EndureVascular]

Totally get the Harvard wow factor- sometimes even if it isn't the best financial decision, its what would make you the happiest. Thats up to you to judge how much thats worth. Truth is you're going to be an attending one day and the chance to get that Harvard name will never be there again whereas you'll always have the opportunity to make more money.

If you decide you want a combination of money and reputation. Mayo/WashU/UCLA are all fantastic options obviously. Based off what you said I think UCLA would hold quite a bit of appeal as it has the nice weather, strong reputation in and out of medicine, diverse patient population, and the high COL is combated by your full ride. As an alumni, WashU really does have very little name recognition outside of medicine (people asked if I went to community college haha) but a strong reputation in medical circles. As a fellow hispanic M0, the lack of lantix populations in St.Louis was a concern for me as well, but not a dealbreaker by any means. Some people are talking about it in this thread but I worked primarily with white or black patients during my 4 years at Barnes Jewish hospital, just food for thought. I liked the city more than I thought I would going in but people are correct by calling the weather variable- its that midwestern classic weather that leads to a lot of cold/hot on off days in spring/fall. Can't speak much to Mayo but obviously its an impressive school, small class, can be hot like you said.

If Duke follows through with a scholarship that looks like a bit of a slam dunk imo, but if not you're better off with MHS if you're choosing a full price school. Yale seems like an easy out at this point, despite the appeal of "the yale system".

 

[lacrossegirl420]

HMS

 

[ElTacoGrande]

HMS zero doubt whatever the price is for having classmates at the head of major biopharmas, academic depts, and govt agencies , it’s worth a lot more than the 250k extra loans . ( which will be nothing in hindsight 20 years from now)

 

[deleted1144897]

Congratulations on so many great options!!!

Go with HMS.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Unless you are planning to do MBA or global health, Harvard is not worth the cost for medicine.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

HMS zero doubt whatever the price is for having classmates at the head of major biopharmas, academic depts, and govt agencies , it’s worth a lot more than the 250k extra loans . ( which will be nothing in hindsight 20 years from now)

Lol working hard to get off that Washu WL aren't we

I'd go with a full tuition scholarship option

 

[EndureVascular]

HMS zero doubt whatever the price is for having classmates at the head of major biopharmas, academic depts, and govt agencies , it’s worth a lot more than the 250k extra loans . ( which will be nothing in hindsight 20 years from now)

You don't deserve to get into WashU.
Not only is it grimy as hell to be telling everyone to choose another school since you're on the waitlist, its extremely low IQ to go about it in such a blatant and obvious manner haha

And I even said in my post above Harvard/UCLA seemed like the top two choices to me (and I'm on none of these waitlists), so I have no dog in this fight

 

[plzacceptme24]

You don't deserve to get into WashU.
Not only is it grimy as hell to be telling everyone to choose another school since you're on the waitlist, its extremely low IQ to go about it in such a blatant and obvious manner haha

And I even said in my post above Harvard/UCLA seemed like the top two choices to me (and I'm on none of these waitlists), so I have no dog in this fight

Plus a very suspicious @lettuceturnip account that seems to be agreeing with @ElTacoGrande on both threads at similar times in the middle of the night

 

[wysdoc]

Moderator note:
Knock off the trash-talking against other members and keep your comments on-topic.
Specific advice beyond "you should choose "X" is of course more helpful to the OP.

 

[deleted1144897]

Plus a very suspicious @lettuceturnip account that seems to be agreeing with @ElTacoGrande on both threads at similar times in the middle of the night

I can assure you we're not the same. But, why would you believe me, right?

I agree with the moderator that this should be about providing advice. At the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the OP to decide. I trust that somebody like OP who's been accepted to such amazing schools would do some serious research and fact-checking before making such an important decision, and not just be easily swayed by the comments from anonymous users online.

WashU with full tuition is an EXCELLENT option! Personally, I'd rather get the Harvard Patagucci though and I'm sure many individuals would love this opportunity as well.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I can assure you we're not the same. But, why would you believe me, right?

I agree with the moderator that this should be about providing advice. At the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the OP to decide. I trust that somebody like OP who's been accepted to such amazing schools would do some serious research and fact-checking before making such an important decision, and not just be easily swayed by the comments from anonymous users online.

WashU with full tuition is an EXCELLENT option! Personally, I'd rather get the Harvard Patagucci though and I'm sure many individuals would love this opportunity as well.

Might not be the same person but might still be on the WL for Washu haha, it seem to attract a certain type.

While I agree with the admin that we shouldn't bash people here, I do think it's important to call out (preferably disclose) if someone's on the WL for something. Knowing that you have a bias is important in the X vs Y discussions. People going in and saying "go to <insert other school that I'm not on the WL on>" isn't helpful either.

 

[deleted1161395]

Holy, great options! I think that WashU is a very solid choice for that price. Plus STL is actually an awesome city (cooler than a lot of people think). Duke also seems like it fits your criteria well if it is a similar financial package

 

[wysdoc]

Might not be the same person but might still be on the WL for Washu haha, it seem to attract a certain type.

While I agree with the admin that we shouldn't bash people here, I do think it's important to call out (preferably disclose) if someone's on the WL for something. Knowing that you have a bias is important in the X vs Y discussions. People going in and saying "go to <insert other school that I'm not on the WL on>" isn't helpful either.

How about you? Do you have any stake? I see that most of your recent posts are on the X - vs - Y forum.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

How about you? Do you have any stake? I see that most of your recent posts are on the X - vs - Y forum.

Well yeah it's that time when the X vs Y forums are most active duh lol, I've been active with this forum for years and it's where I feel I'm most helpful

 

[deleted1144897]

I implore everyone who is going into academic medicine to look at loan repayment programs, one mentioned by @lone_cypress, and others such as the NIH (Data & Reports | National Institutes of Health | Division of Loan Repayment). The success rate for the NIH one is ~50% (see program data tab). A few of the physicians I work with have had much success with LRP funding. I understand that those full tuition offers are amazing and will provide peace of mind, but if cost is solely what is driving you to reject your Elle Woods' dream, then maybe do more research on programs like this before deciding.

I wish you the best of luck on deciding and congrats again on the amazing offers!!

 

[zerotofate]

I say WashU so that I can have you as a classmate

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

Wow you'd really take on $400k in debt just to say you went to Harvard? Pretty fascinating lol. But agreed that St. Louis is a diverse city. Honestly all these cities are quite diverse.

Many people would give a kidney to go to Harvard.

I think this is the one school on the list that COULD be worth paying more, at least if they had any entrepreneurial aspirations.

Then again, the most popular doc online nowadays is a DO family med x]